MARK FIVE 25 TONE SETTINGS THREAD

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orionz06 said:
Differences? Any threads here? Search doesn't help with three characters.
Click to expand...
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352

Thread detailing all you need to know.

Tube swap: Bigger more grinding mids, low end, increased useable gain in channel 2, smoothening out any offensive highs even in high gain mode, with high presence even.... , enhanced smoothness and sweetness in lead notes....

All from putting a 12AT7 in the V2 tube position instead of the AX7.

In this thread you can track the evolution of this discovery. Apeman was the 1st one, using this technique on the bigger amp. I just applied it to a similar gain stage in the 25. 35s should work with the same trick.
 
Markageddon said:
All from putting a 12AX7 in the V2 tube position instead of the AX7.
Click to expand...

How does swapping V2 in the 25w Mark V equate to what is being talked about in that thread? If I've read the thread correctly, V4 and V6 in the 90w Mark V are being swapped out with the 12at7. Here is what that manual says about the 90w tube layout:

V4A- Reverb Driver/Send
V4B- 4th Gain Stage CH3

V6A- 6th Gain Stage CH3
V6B- Effects Return Stage

Here is the tube layout from the Mark V 25w version:

V1A- Input Stage CH1 & CH2
V1B- 2nd Gain Stage CH1 CLEAN & FAT 3rd Gain Stage CRUNCH 2nd Gain Stage CH2

V2A- 2nd Gain Stage CH1 CRUNCH
V2B- 4th Gain Stage CH2

V3A- 3rd Gain Stage CH1 CLEAN & FAT 4th Gain Stage CRUNCH
V3B- 4th Gain Stage CLEAN & FAT25

V4A- Reverb Return
V4B- Reverb Send

V5A- FX Loop Return
V5B- 5th Gain Stage CH2

V6A&B- Driver/Phase Inverter
 
The 4th gain stage is the key to this sound. I equate it purely on same type of effect it seems to have on the dials, and thusly shaping parameters. It also seems to have a mellowness at that stage which smoothens the highs.. increases diallable bass...allows you to get more savage tone without as much in the upper range limiting how much the 5th stage gets hits by maybe... was an intuitive try, given that the big amp method worked similarly.
Its like my big amp's V4 mod in sound and dialling dynamic..... try getting my tone, from the dial and slider config you saw in the vid.

The channel 2 on the V25 did seem to have a more rich alive lead channel than the 90w, in the 1st place and the FX loop doesnt colour things like the full 90w head does. Could be why this sounds so evil, despite the lack of the 90w V6 equivalent swap, the V2 Swap in the 25 (which affects the same stage as V4 in the big head) still changed the gain sound like the V4 swap in the 90w post tube swap.

Try yourself.
The difference is ferocious, you can dial eq +gain higher, without it fizzing out or farting out.
And the achievable EQ on channel 1 now matches the 1st channle on crunch a lot better.

I think the 25 was awesome before, but his is just more of that awesome. IMHO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5F6_b2cLoE Another vid with controls as yesterday, and also for some of it a conventional V type graphic setting was used that allowed some of the aggressive smooth usable highs. Manson riff area of it was a blend of yesterday's vids EQ and the v settings on the bass side of middle. Presence was also played with a bit.
 
Markageddon said:
orionz06 said:
Differences? Any threads here? Search doesn't help with three characters.
Click to expand...
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352

In this thread you can track the evolution of this discovery. Bandit was the 1st one, using this technique on the bigger amp. I just applied it to a similar gain stage in the 25. 35s should work with the same trick.
Click to expand...

APEMAN was the first to try the AT7 in V6 and to post the idea of the AT7 (at least the first one I've seen in the past year). Then Bandit got very interested and did V4 and it took off from there. This was with a 90W Mark V.

Mace
 
mace said:
Markageddon said:
orionz06 said:
Differences? Any threads here? Search doesn't help with three characters.
Click to expand...
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352

In this thread you can track the evolution of this discovery. Bandit was the 1st one, using this technique on the bigger amp. I just applied it to a similar gain stage in the 25. 35s should work with the same trick.
Click to expand...

APEMAN was the first to try the AT7 in V6 and to post the idea of the AT7 (at least the first one I've seen in the past year). Then Bandit got very interested and did V4 and it took off from there. This was with a 90W Mark V.

Mace
Click to expand...


OMG Quite right. Sorry about that mix up Apeman. fixed. Thanks Mace.
 
Markageddon said:
orionz06 said:
Differences? Any threads here? Search doesn't help with three characters.
Click to expand...
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352

Thread detailing all you need to know.

Tube swap: Bigger more grinding mids, low end, increased useable gain in channel 2, smoothening out any offensive highs even in high gain mode, with high presence even.... , enhanced smoothness and sweetness in lead notes....

All from putting a 12AX7 in the V2 tube position instead of the AX7.

In this thread you can track the evolution of this discovery. Apeman was the 1st one, using this technique on the bigger amp. I just applied it to a similar gain stage in the 25. 35s should work with the same trick.
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for this. I've owned the v:35 for about a year and I'm still tweeking it (it lives at my drummers house so I don't get to mess with it often).

Is this mod easy to do? I have zero skills when it comes to this stuff. Where do you even order the tube from? If it's a quick pull out one, put in the other, and I can't damage the amp, then I may give it a try.
 
Jfriley said:
Markageddon said:
orionz06 said:
Differences? Any threads here? Search doesn't help with three characters.
Click to expand...
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352

Thread detailing all you need to know.

Tube swap: Bigger more grinding mids, low end, increased useable gain in channel 2, smoothening out any offensive highs even in high gain mode, with high presence even.... , enhanced smoothness and sweetness in lead notes....

All from putting a 12AX7 in the V2 tube position instead of the AX7.

In this thread you can track the evolution of this discovery. Apeman was the 1st one, using this technique on the bigger amp. I just applied it to a similar gain stage in the 25. 35s should work with the same trick.
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for this. I've owned the v:35 for about a year and I'm still tweeking it (it lives at my drummers house so I don't get to mess with it often).

Is this mod easy to do? I have zero skills when it comes to this stuff. Where do you even order the tube from? If it's a quick pull out one, put in the other, and I can't damage the amp, then I may give it a try.
Click to expand...

I just bought the Mesa 12at7 at my local tube stockists. You can order them at your local guitar store if they don't carry them. They're pretty standard, used for different roles in different amps. I would assume your local Mesa dealer is for sure.
If all else fails google 'Mesa 12At7 prices' and your county/city...that should yield results.
Paid £22 each uk money for mine. I bought 2.

Its as simple as a tube swap: Making sure your amp isn't plugged in to power, that its switched off, opening your chassis by undoing the 4 big screwbolts on the top of your amp, gently sliding out and turning over the chassis,
And replacing V2 positions' 12AX7 with your newly acquired 12AT7. (Its standard action pulling out/plugging in tubes. If you're not experienced, consult the many tubeswap guide vids on YT.) Re-assemble.. et voila. 8)
Consult the manual as to the location of the V2 socket. Its next to one one of the transformers, the PT, IIRC.

I'd say you'll be ok. I'm not Mr.Experience with the complicated stuff, and had only done 3 tube swap sessions in my 7 years of Mesaness. If I could, I'd reckon you could.
Heres a vid on the daddy amp which should illustrate the tube removal stuff. With the chassis out you'll not have to poke around to access the tubes. Dont touch anything else the other side of the chassis, the guts of the amp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhAYpjJrrw

Remember 2 points: as you're sliding the chassis out, to watch for the reverb wires that connect chassis to reverb tank. unplugging one of them may give the you the room to turn the chassis over. Reconnect it when you put the chassis back in, if you do.
Also that if your AT7 is like my two, the pins on the tube, from new in box are slightly angled in uniformally towards center. just take usual care in putting it in, line up the pins with socket, the no-pin gap on the tube with the bit of the socket holes where there are no holes. When there, It feels like theres resistance, but the pins will play ball as you gently yet confidently apply pushing in force. After that they're straight when you take em in or out.
Thats about as complicated as it gets. Hope this helps. :)
 
Markageddon said:
I just bought the Mesa 12at7 at my local tube stockists. You can order them at your local guitar store if they don't carry them. They're pretty standard, used for different roles in different amps. I would assume your local Mesa dealer is for sure.
If all else fails google 'Mesa 12At7 prices' and your county/city...that should yield results.
Paid £22 each uk money for mine. I bought 2.

Its as simple as a tube swap: Making sure your amp isn't plugged in to power, that its switched off, opening your chassis by undoing the 4 big screwbolts on the top of your amp, gently sliding out and turning over the chassis,
And replacing V2 positions' 12AX7 with your newly acquired 12AT7. (Its standard action pulling out/plugging in tubes. If you're not experienced, consult the many tubeswap guide vids on YT.) Re-assemble.. et voila. 8)
Consult the manual as to the location of the V2 socket. Its next to one one of the transformers, the PT, IIRC.

I'd say you'll be ok. I'm not Mr.Experience with the complicated stuff, and had only done 3 tube swap sessions in my 7 years of Mesaness. If I could, I'd reckon you could.
Heres a vid on the daddy amp which should illustrate the tube removal stuff. With the chassis out you'll not have to poke around to access the tubes. Dont touch anything else the other side of the chassis, the guts of the amp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhAYpjJrrw

Remember 2 points: as you're sliding the chassis out, to watch for the reverb wires that connect chassis to reverb tank. unplugging one of them may give the you the room to turn the chassis over. Reconnect it when you put the chassis back in, if you do.
Also that if your AT7 is like my two, the pins on the tube, from new in box are slightly angled in uniformally towards center. just take usual care in putting it in, line up the pins with socket, the no-pin gap on the tube with the bit of the socket holes where there are no holes. When there, It feels like theres resistance, but the pins will play ball as you gently yet confidently apply pushing in force. After that they're straight when you take em in or out.
Thats about as complicated as it gets. Hope this helps. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this :) Although I was under the impression you could access the tubes just by removing the front grill?

My 12AT7 Mesa tube is on it's way. Can't wait to try this out.
 
Rectifried said:
Markageddon said:
I just bought the Mesa 12at7 at my local tube stockists. You can order them at your local guitar store if they don't carry them. They're pretty standard, used for different roles in different amps. I would assume your local Mesa dealer is for sure.
If all else fails google 'Mesa 12At7 prices' and your county/city...that should yield results.
Paid £22 each uk money for mine. I bought 2.

Its as simple as a tube swap: Making sure your amp isn't plugged in to power, that its switched off, opening your chassis by undoing the 4 big screwbolts on the top of your amp, gently sliding out and turning over the chassis,
And replacing V2 positions' 12AX7 with your newly acquired 12AT7. (Its standard action pulling out/plugging in tubes. If you're not experienced, consult the many tubeswap guide vids on YT.) Re-assemble.. et voila. 8)
Consult the manual as to the location of the V2 socket. Its next to one one of the transformers, the PT, IIRC.

I'd say you'll be ok. I'm not Mr.Experience with the complicated stuff, and had only done 3 tube swap sessions in my 7 years of Mesaness. If I could, I'd reckon you could.
Heres a vid on the daddy amp which should illustrate the tube removal stuff. With the chassis out you'll not have to poke around to access the tubes. Dont touch anything else the other side of the chassis, the guts of the amp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhAYpjJrrw

Remember 2 points: as you're sliding the chassis out, to watch for the reverb wires that connect chassis to reverb tank. unplugging one of them may give the you the room to turn the chassis over. Reconnect it when you put the chassis back in, if you do.
Also that if your AT7 is like my two, the pins on the tube, from new in box are slightly angled in uniformally towards center. just take usual care in putting it in, line up the pins with socket, the no-pin gap on the tube with the bit of the socket holes where there are no holes. When there, It feels like theres resistance, but the pins will play ball as you gently yet confidently apply pushing in force. After that they're straight when you take em in or out.
Thats about as complicated as it gets. Hope this helps. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this :) Although I was under the impression you could access the tubes just by removing the front grill?

My 12AT7 Mesa tube is on it's way. Can't wait to try this out.
Click to expand...

You're most welcome.

When I tried, I encountered solid board. Had to go for Chassis out. You want hand room anyways. Don't worry. You're gonna be fine. Thrilled to hear it. You'll soon be swimming in enhanced awesomeness.
 
Markageddon said:
You're most welcome.

When I tried, I encountered solid board. Had to go for Chassis out. You want hand room anyways. Don't worry. You're gonna be fine. Thrilled to hear it. You'll soon be swimming in enhanced awesomeness.
Click to expand...

Amazingly the tube got here in 2 days, free shipping from Sweetwater to California. Got it in and it is just as you described. Enhanced awesomeness :) Unfortunately I don't have my cabs here at home so will have to wait a week or so to try it out with the band. But going thru my Hot Plate into my computer I instantly could hear the difference, and the extra usable range on all the knobs, especially in 2c+ mode which is my favorite. Having that extra bass is awesome. And it may be my imagination but it feels like false harmonics are even more effortless than they were before...

Thanks so much for this mod...

Oh, for anybody else looking to remove the chassis - I had a little bit of a hard time with sliding mine in and out - turns out there was an edge of the tolex wrapped pretty far inside the shell that made it an extremely tight fit. But once I figured that out it was no problem, didn't even have to unplug the reverb wires as there was enough slack in them for me to reach the V2 spot easily. Oh, and I did this by having the head standing sideways, one end up, the other on the ground.

Ok, back to playing. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Rectifried said:
Markageddon said:
You're most welcome.

When I tried, I encountered solid board. Had to go for Chassis out. You want hand room anyways. Don't worry. You're gonna be fine. Thrilled to hear it. You'll soon be swimming in enhanced awesomeness.
Click to expand...

Amazingly the tube got here in 2 days, free shipping from Sweetwater to California. Got it in and it is just as you described. Enhanced awesomeness :) Unfortunately I don't have my cabs here at home so will have to wait a week or so to try it out with the band. But going thru my Hot Plate into my computer I instantly could hear the difference, and the extra usable range on all the knobs, especially in 2c+ mode which is my favorite. Having that extra bass is awesome. And it may be my imagination but it feels like false harmonics are even more effortless than they were before...

Thanks so much for this mod...

Oh, for anybody else looking to remove the chassis - I had a little bit of a hard time with sliding mine in and out - turns out there was an edge of the tolex wrapped pretty far inside the shell that made it an extremely tight fit. But once I figured that out it was no problem, didn't even have to unplug the reverb wires as there was enough slack in them for me to reach the V2 spot easily. Oh, and I did this by having the head standing sideways, one end up, the other on the ground.

Ok, back to playing. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Congratulations...!! Great stuff...!!! Again you're welcome and Im happy for you that you took the step forward.. :D

Its not just your imagination: everything will be/has been enhanced... even enhancing the sounds available now via Cab Clone, now that a lot of the excessive fizz at high gain has gone. Allowing you to use full gain and perform different pre-EQ feats, or hang with the thicker, smoother low gain sounds now on tap...Yes IIC+ roars. And yes the new bass is off scale awesome and Mark IV mode (basically feeling like IIC+ Pull Deep) takes the bass further. And Extreme has similar levels of bass but is everything is way more in your face, Mids, beautiful, clear, usable un-thin Treble etc Try full Mid, Bass 1'Oclock, Treble 5 O'clock, Presence 2 O'clock- full. (Then try same sound but Pres 11 o'clock) V shape or M on the graphic.
That should show you a bit of what this things capable of now.

You have only heaven ahead of you when you connect to a cab.
You'll be grinning for weeks/months/years....basically whenever you plug in.
:)
 
I did the S&M version of the tube swap (although I'm not normally into that). I read here before that you could swap preamp tubes on the V25 by removing the front panel. I'd swear I read of from Authorized Boogie! But I encountered solid wood that wouldn't move even with those screws removed also. Then on to the S&M method, which I DO NO suggest. It took me almost 30 minutes to get the old tube out, new tube in and tube retainer back on. I will NEVER try this again without just unbolting and sliding the amp out of the case. Rectofried replied to my email about 10 minutes after I was done. If I had waited for his reply I would have had a much easier time swapping V2.

Worth the trouble though! Can't wait to get home and try it more.
 
Dreamtheaterrules said:
I did the S&M version of the tube swap (although I'm not normally into that). I read here before that you could swap preamp tubes on the V25 by removing the front panel. I'd swear I read of from Authorized Boogie! But I encountered solid wood that wouldn't move even with those screws removed also. Then on to the S&M method, which I DO NO suggest. It took me almost 30 minutes to get the old tube out, new tube in and tube retainer back on. I will NEVER try this again without just unbolting and sliding the amp out of the case. Rectofried replied to my email about 10 minutes after I was done. If I had waited for his reply I would have had a much easier time swapping V2.

Worth the trouble though! Can't wait to get home and try it more.
Click to expand...

Yes chassis out, every time for this procedure for sure.
Still....you know now. And you're fully prepared to rock. Have fun. \m/
 
I am still curious though. Authorized Boogie posted that you could swap tubes on the V25 by removing the front panel. 4 Screws, and Boogie panel removed, shows another board and 4 more screws. Removed all 4 and can't BUDGE that board. Pried as hard as I could without damaging something.

Anyway, yes, ready for next time.
 
With a Dremel maybe.... hahaha :p If you find out how to do it, let me know.
In the meantime, no matter the explanation, this may be a time to trust in your own (and my) experience.

Its not that much of a job doing the top bolts/chassis slide.
Maybe a good thing that its solid, structurally speaking really.
 
Not sure if anyone has seen this but I think it is pretty cool ... I didn't imagine using the Extreme channel this way:

http://www.tdpri.com/threads/mesa-mark-v-25-owners-attention-dumble-tone-hidden-in-there.678163/
 
FYI, those settings are VERY nice! But (maybe because it's a Tele forum) I needed a bit more treble or presence. The pic posted was low volume. Turning the master up really opens the amp up and fills out the lows so some more treble or presence was needed when I tried it with my PRS NF3.

This is great though. A little more gain and/or a switch to MIV and it REALLY sings. As mentioned in the linked thread, Santana tones are a few minor tweaks. This IS pretty cool. Thanks for posting it.
 
RoadDog said:
Not sure if anyone has seen this but I think it is pretty cool ... I didn't imagine using the Extreme channel this way:

http://www.tdpri.com/threads/mesa-mark-v-25-owners-attention-dumble-tone-hidden-in-there.678163/
Click to expand...

Yup; I created that thread/setting - & today made a track of the setting - using only my phone to record & my stereo for backing track, shooting for a Dumble / Robben Ford live sound

No pedals no editing no nothing :)

https://soundcloud.com/homesick-hanes/slow-dumble
 

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