Roadster clean channels... very little headroom?

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NeveSSL

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Hi all,

I noticed that if I set the gain on my clean channels to anything usable (IE, the volume is up enough to match my other channels), it breaks up. I'm talking about the gain being barely on... maybe at like 9 o clock or a little less. Is this common? Can I change it? Maybe a change in V1 would help? I'm not expecting Fender cleans, necessarily, but I do need it to be actually clean. :)

Brandon
 
Has the amp been serviced lately? Sounds like there could be something going on that a basic checkup could fix.

First though, I would clean all the inputs, outputs, and tube sockets, and try swapping out the preamp tubes. If that doesn't fix it, that means there may be something more at play.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. I finally got the replacement tube into V1 (EH) a d fired it back up. I noticed I had the channel volume all the way up. Turned it down some and, what do ya know, a bit of headroom. It does seem like anything past maybe 12 o'clock on the channel volume and 10 oclock on the gain will cause the channel to break up again, but under those everything is clean. Is that normal? I believe I can chalk this one up to user error... Again... Haha!

Brandon
 
If the channel master is up too high it'll overdrive the effects loop.

I usually run the channel masters around 9:00-10:00 with the master output between 11:00-1:00 (or, as loud as you can realistically run it).
 
How long has it been since you replaced V3 or V5? The cathode follower circuits used on those two tube positions will degrade the preamp tubes at a faster rate than the other tube positions. Normally the tone of the amp usually shifts when it is time to replace the two tubes. V3 is only used on CH3 and 4. It may be V5 being to blame. When was the last time you changed V6 (PI) tube as that can also impact the headroom of the amp to some extent. I would also check the power tubes, if one has become weak over time, the imbalance will cause one side to pull more resulting in poor clean tone performance. Are you running at 100W or 50W on the clean channels?
 
Thanks, guys. These tubes are all less than a year old. EH rectos, JJ 6l6s (for now... seriously considering some EL34s or KT77s). I think screamingdaisy was right... I was overdriving the effects loop downstream of the channel. I'm running all of the channels at 100w for now, just because I haven't experimented with the differences between 50w and 100w on each channel yet. :) It's crazy the options available on this amp... I love it.

Brandon
 
My preference with the Roadster is the usual Tung Sol in V1, everything else stock. I like the gain structure of the Mesa 6L6GC STR440 in this amp as its frequency response seems to blend well with that of the preamp. I have tried EL34 in the following: SED EL34, Mullard EL34 RI, Tung Sol EL34B, Gold Lion KT77. The amp did not sound as bold or as aggressive as I would have hopped. I have a few sets of Mesa EL34 I can try and see how they sound. I have a hunch that 6CA7 would be a good fit as those tubes generally have more bottom end and a unique character to them than the EL34. It could be that all of the tubes I have tried were specified for use with the Mark V (never realizing that I should not run those tubes in the V at full power but I did without any issue).
 
Yeah, I need to grab one of the Tung Sols. Thanks for the reply!

Brandon
 
In my limited experience, I have found that 6L6 tubes definitely have more "punch" than EL34 tube types. The KT77 and 6CA7 Tubes may have a bit more, but nothing beats a nice 6L6.

My DC-5 has two SED 6L6GC tubes in it, and I'm probably going to cry when they die, as you can't get them anymore, thanks to the Svetlana plant in St Petersburg closing down.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. I have a confession to make, though... I have fallen in love with another and will be trading my Roadster for a JVM410H. That thing was incredible and had all the sounds I've had in my head. I was shocked when I tried it after someone offered to trade me straight up. There is a fizziness in the Roadster in all distorting that I can't dial out and that drives me nuts. I know that hard clipping is part of the dual rec sound, but it's just not what my ears are craving, I'm sad to say. I'll greatly miss the tweed mode!

Brandon
 
I think of that as the "sizzle" that is just part of the rectifier sound. It's one of the reasons that I am much more interested in amps like he Mark series, DC series, LoneStar, etc. The maverick is an exception to that, and I often wonder why it's part of the "rectifier" series, being so different. It's almost like a "pre-lone star" amplifier.

The Marshall sound is simply different than that of Mesa Boogie amps overall. Good luck with the new amp.
 
Yep, like I said above, I understand that fizziness is intentional and part of the sound, I just didn't fully understand it until I heard it. Then when I heard the JVM, well... I knew I had to get one. :)

I'd love to try a Mark V at some point, but right now they're hard to find around the same price as what I can get for my Roadster.

Brandon
 
The secret to taming the fizz on a Recto is to turn the gain down and the volume up.

Keeping the presence lower (10:00 or less) also helps.

As does not running your guitar's tone pot wide open.


IMO, YMMV.
 
Thanks for the tips! I may give those a shot tonight before I trade it off.

Brandon
 
Funny, Never noticed any fizziness with my Roadster. Good luck with the other amp. I had been eyeing up the JVM410 a few times when I wanted something different. Before I decided on making the change, the JP-2C came out and it was hard to resist. I should play though one just for fun and see what I thing of it.
 
Also can depend on how the listening environment is set up. If you are directly in line with the speaker, you will hear more high end.

There are a lot of amps out there that are really designed to be run moderately loud, especially if they are 100 watts Tube, and when they are not they can sound kinda weak or fizzy. Running the channel volume higher allows you to get the preamp tubes more saturated, often even the non gain stage ones. Many amps have a post phase inverter master volume, so you can get some smoothness out of those as well.

This is one reason I really like the Mesa Boogie amps that have the Variac power as well as the ability to run the power amp class A and/or Class A single ended. You can get a better sound at a lower volume.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. My local GC actually had a used JVM410 in stock so I brought it home with me so I can properly compare the two amps side by side. Its a harder decision than I first thought. The Marshall definitely has an awesome crunch, but it seems the crunch is almost exactly the same on every channel, with just varying sometimes unusable amounts of gain. I only had about 2 hours with them last night. My wife was up there (our bonus room is a quasi-studio) with me listening. It's a toss up at the moment, which is actually a bit frustrating. I also think there may be something to be said for doing some tube swaps in the Mesa to see if the harshness I hear on attacks goes away. I'd hate to give up on this amp prematurely, so I'm wanting to do this as right as I can.

Brandon
 
For starters, download the user manual for the Roadster if you did not get one with the amp. (may have to look for it in the product support section as the amp is now discontinued). Pay attention to the suggested settings in terms of power setting and diode vs tube.

Roadster is a beast and sounds best in its sweet spot. However you can run the amp at lower volume level if you use the FXloop set to active for a master volume control. Confirm the send level on the FX loop on the back panel is centered. If the amp is too loud, select 50W settings for each channel. You can also use spongy mode for a reduced output. Best to start with the suggested settings in the manual. Adjust controls after you narrow down what you want and then you can relate of they react based on gain or presence settings.

It seems the amps that I did not like on first run though I actually love now. I thought the Mark V had more gain, Roadster is actually capable of delivering much more. Actually a reduction in gain setting when using Modern voice on CH3 or CH4 actually sounds better than a higher gain setting. Note that with the Dual Rectifier (which includes the triple and Road King) the tone controls follow several gain stages which is different than most amps as they usually have the tone stack after the first gain stage and not nested after the 3rd or 4th gain stage. My first trial with the Roadster was not rewarding by any means and I came home with a Mark V instead. Later on I just ordered the Roadster head and it was the same as the first time I used one. I did not know how to set the controls to get the sound I wanted until after looking at the sample settings. Roadster is one of my favorites now. I am glad I have one now that the model has been discontinued. Also keep in mind that power tubes when new sometimes need a few hours of use before the desired tone emerges (always the case with EL34 for some reason, or at least the EHX EL34).
 

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