mesa studio preamp... need more saturation

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toolshed

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this amp is really really smooth and lush.. but, It seems like it's not giving me the enough saturation. It's not really boosting the high mids enough to get it there. the voicing almost seems like it's lower mid based. anyone have any experience with this and how to fix it?
 
You might want to try boosting your signal into the amp. Just a graphic EQ pedal or a tube driver pedal with a bit of extra gain (not necessarily distorted in tone) can be enough to push the input tube into saturation. It's cheap and can save you messing around with your amp circuitry. A lot of guys do this on the Triaxis - not that it's a low gain amp, but driving the first tube stage harder can really bring out the creamy, saturated tone.
 
+1 ando.
A simple Tubescreamer-like pedal is enough, only turn volume up and gain down on the pedal and the signal is boosted, making the input tube be harder driven. Plus you can use the pedal's tone control to shape a bit your tone.
 
toolshed said:
this amp is really really smooth and lush.. but, It seems like it's not giving me the enough saturation. It's not really boosting the high mids enough to get it there. the voicing almost seems like it's lower mid based. anyone have any experience with this and how to fix it?
I would buy an amp you liked rather than trying to "fix" one you don't like.
 
I'm surprised every time I read a post about the SP having too LITTLE gain. Mine has TONS. Plus with the GEQ, I can dial in any sort of tone. I suspect that people mistake gain for crunch. If you want it really crispy or hairy or whatever, you may have to reduce the gain a bit and dial the tone and GEQ differently. Way over the top saturation tends to make any amp sound over-compressed and lose definition and high frequencies.

Definitely hitting the front end with a TS will help get more high harmonics, which will make it sound crunchier. But I recommend watching some of the videos on youtube about the SP (my favorite is by a guy who uses a JS1000 and has captions in red at the bottom - don't have the details right now). There are some really good ones, and it helped me a lot to dial in what I wanted. The GEQ is all-powerful, and I am still surprised at how low the bass and mid tone controls need to be set to get usable tone. You basically have to cut them up front and boost them with the EQ. It's really counter-intuitive.
 
How bout you try this. Raise your pickups, experiment with tubes (sounds stupid but it works) - I tried different brand tubes in different positions - maybe chinese in first position for mid crush, tung sol in v2 for depth and room, Electro Harmonics in v3 to darken it back up, then an EI in v4 for smoothness complexity and clarity and maybe mullard at the end to box it back up. Then, maybe run it through a speaker set that gives you clear crunch as that because might be what you are looking for. If you have clarity of harmonics, you can turn the gain up really high and it feels saturated but sounds clear and crunchy. I currently like EvBlack Shadow with the Mark IIc+ and Marshall Gt-75 with the Mark V so even amps that are very similar preamp wise can have a different sonic characteristic. Experiment and find what you like. Hope it helps.

-Matt
 
I've found the Studio Pre really responds well to tube changes. I swapped out the 12AX7's that were in it when I got it and rolled various vintage tubes through it. The difference was unexpected. It went from great with a bit of flubb to OMG is this the same preamp?! I cant over stress the difference, I loved it before, but I quickly heard the character of each tube swap. It was so cool going from an RCA to a Sylvania and hearing the overtones move from one harmonic to another with more or less shimmer. $10 or $20 bux for a good vintage tube is worth its weight in gold to my ears.

After Rolling tubes This is where I landed:

Studio Pre
V1. Input.......... .......Sylvania 12AX7 Tall Grey
V2. Rhy............. .......RCA 12AX7A Short Grey
V3. Lead...................Mesa 7025 STR 12AX7A/ECC83
V4. Main/Rec Out.......JAN Philips 12AX7WA Tall Grey
V5. Rev....................JAN Philips 12AT7WC Short Grey

Here's a thread on my tube rolling experience.
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=43517&start=0
 
Toolshed,

Set the volume input higher than the lead drive for more saturation. Also try setting the 2200 slider higher than you might think for a mid boost.


Shane
 
ando said:
You might want to try boosting your signal into the amp. Just a graphic EQ pedal or a tube driver pedal with a bit of extra gain (not necessarily distorted in tone) can be enough to push the input tube into saturation. It's cheap and can save you messing around with your amp circuitry. A lot of guys do this on the Triaxis - not that it's a low gain amp, but driving the first tube stage harder can really bring out the creamy, saturated tone.

+1 to this

I stupidly sold my studio pre a few years ago, but remember having similar perceptions as the OP. I made some tube changes, which I would absolutely advise doing this this very responsive circuit, but eventually found what I was looking for with a mid and slightly treble boosted EQ stomp box running into the amp.

The increase in the upper mids coming into the first gain stage really crunched things up in an awesome way, but didn't smother the original tone of the various guitars I was using.

I cringe everytime I see someone boosting a Mesa with a tubescreamer. Those things really mess up the sound of the guitar, compressing it and adding all kinds of extra mid range honk that, while it may sound good through a Marshall or fender, a Mesa just doesn't need.


Try the EQ and then some better tubes. You will find what you are looking for there.
 
I just joined up because google found me this thread -i have just revd my first SP and its got JJs throughout. I asked my fatherinlaw if he had any old valves in his den (he's oldschool radioman). "Oh, I have old ones somewhere... " So I'll report back soon. Could be anything down there.
 
I had to fiddle with my Studio Preamp for a while to get the saturated sound I wanted, I went wrong for a while by trying to stick a compressor in front of the whole thing...

I agree with setting the 2200 slider quite high - mine is just under the top line with the 6600 one 1mm below that (I use 1mm picks...) I also have the 'Lead Fat' switch ON - this tightens up palm muting a lot - and the 'Lead Bright' OFF (this tends to make lead playing a bit too 'screechy' for my liking if left on). I also agree with running the rhythm volume quite high, also crank the treble, this adds more gain saturation.
 
right now im running
the rhythm volume at 3
the master volume at 2
treble at 9
mid at 7
bass at 1
reverb off
lead volume at 8
lead master at 2
bass slider at 1/2
midbass slider just under 1/2
mid slider at 3/4
high mid slider all the way up
the high slider at 3/4

I'm wanting to accomplish keeping the clean channel actually clean without any break up. But it's still breaking up some. I'm running a boss eq pedal infront of the amp with it looking like a frown. it's really not as thick as i would like and it has the highs screaming, but i'm getting more saturation than before. what are some of your settings on the sp....?
 
As an exercise I would start by just shooting for the best high gain sound you can get out of it first. I'm a quad owner but I think what I state below will hold true, based off my channel one on the quad.

The first volume is a common gain input volume for both modes ( clean and lead ). Turning this volume dial up drives the input stage tubes harder. When dialed to higher settings in conjunction with the lead drive is where you should start to find the higher gain tones you are looking for.  
Try this.....
Volume 8
Master (sets clean output level out to power amp) set to balance sound output. See notes below on lead master
Treble 8 adds additional gain at higher settings 
Bass 2
Middle 6
Reverb 0
Lead drive 8
Lead master ( sets lead output level to power amp, also you would adjust this and the clean "master" to set relative volumes in relation to each other, think of these as post circuit output levels ).

Use the five band to fine tune your tone.

So the Achilles heal of the whole deal is that the first volume knob is the gain input stage for both clean and lead and getting a balance of high gain vs "clean" cleans can be well.... tough if you lean on the extremes.
If you turn this volume down your cleans will start to sound better but your gain tones will suffer. 
Similarly I would next dial your best clean tone by lowering the first volume, and the treble. To find a balance you'll need to meet in the middle somewhere and see if that works for you. If not you could....
boost type pedal like a OCD pedal turn the gain down and volume up and adjust tone to tastejust like the others mentioned  or something like it to substitute the hotter input signal needed for the gain channel. You'd have to experiment with this and see how this works for you.

If you happen to be using a loop switcher like a voodoo labs GCX and ground control you could have that OCD loop active on whatever presets you want to assign it to.
Then your not toe tapping more than one button for a channel change.
 
i am using a 16 by 16 switcher so i can program pretty much anyway possible. I could even put the od pedal after the preamp if i desired too or infront of the preamp.

does anyone else have a problem with presence.... It seems like my presence isn't what it normally is on just a regular head situation. would tubes help that?
 
Toolshed - my settings are very similar to yours apart from the first two and the GEQ. I have my rhythm volume at 8 (the highest it gets without the clean sound starting to crackle) and the Master at 6.

I don't have any gain devices in front of the amp, only a wah which is not on for my standard rhythm tone. I suspect the GEQ is pushing the front end too much which is why your rhythm volume and master settings have to be so low. To get the saturation I want I have a parametric EQ in the fx loop and have the Lead Fat sitch ON.
 
dbone, I tried your settings and pulled the geq under half.... it made a huge difference. I think i was running the geq way to high. I also have added a boss eq pedal infront of the amp. It's sounding pretty good. still needs some tweeking, but it works great for now. Do any of you use the recording outputs instead of your main outs. I 'm wondering if it sounds different, what's your results?
 

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