2 Ninety vs. 2 Fifty

New here.

Long time Mesa owner currently using a Mark III Blue Stripe and a Mark IV through 3 old skool 1/2 back 4x12's

I want to try something different and am building a small rack around an Axe-FX Ultra.

Probably answered a million times befiore here but, can you guys clue me in on the differences/Pros/Cons of the Mesa 290 and 250 power amps? I have no experience with rack gear or power amps.

I mainly play small venues and at home.

Any advice/tips on which would work best with the Ultra are appreciated.

I just bought a 50/50 and I'm using a BAD CAT X-TREME pedal as a pre into channel A>2X12 and it's extremely loud. I can't even imagine how loud a 2/90 would be.

The 2:90 will basically be two Mark IV power sections with Deep, and Modern voicings and a half power. People put too much amphasis on "loud" when thinking about Mesa power amps The 2:90 really won't be any louder than a 50/50 but you'll have much more headroom which is exactly what you want if you're using an Axe FX.

Thanks to both of you...this is exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for.


My initial idea was to go with the 2:90 and that's what I will do....Anyone got a 2:90 for sale??

What sort of speakers are you going to be using with the Axe FX? This is going to have a huge impact on what you choose for an amp.

If you look at the Axe FX forums there seem to be two therories as the way to go:

A PA type speaker and as clean and uncolored a power amp (or a powered speaker) as you can find, OR

A guitar speaker cab and a guitar type amp (to add a little tube amp warmth)

If you're playing in small venues and at home, it's not too likely that you're going to be playing loud enough where the headroom limits of most power amps is going to be taxed if you're using traditional guitar speakers, which are usualy fairly efficient. Even the smaller of the two Mesa amps is going to be REALLY LOUD before you start hearing any effects from lack of headroom, expecially through a standard guitar cab. (Of course, if the reason you're going to the Axe FX is because your current rig isn't loud enough, then you might consider TWO 2:90's)

In any case, the speaker you use is likely to have more audible effect on the final sound out of your rig, so I'd start there before choosing the power amp. Especially if you decide on a PA type speaker as you'll probably want an amp with even more headroom than a 2:90 for the same reaon that nobody uses tube amps these days to power PA systems.

I've had a 2:90 for 15 years it's a great power amp and if you like the idea of voicing switches then look no further. I use mine with a triaxis and have used it with the quad as well.
I'm allways curious about the axe fx but I don't like the idea of still needing a tube power amp to make it "all good" the day a solid unit comes out that does not require any tube based power amps to be awesome will be impressive time will tell

fauxsuper said:

What sort of speakers are you going to be using with the Axe FX? .

Click to expand...

I plan to use at least two of my three Mesa 4x12 halfback cabs. Running stereo of course.

The cabs are loaded with 2 Celestion/Black Shadow's (90 watts) on top and 2 EV's in the enclosed bottoms.

It sounds like you're going to use the Axe FX pretty much like a pre-amp and not use the power amp or cab sims? If that's the approach you're taking then the difference between the two Mesa amps will be when you've turned the volume up to the point where the 2:50 starts to distort, (which may be a good thing if you're after real tube amp output stage distortion). At that same point, the 2:90 will still have a little headroom left before it starts to impose it's own sonic signature on top of the signal coming from the Axe FX. That would be good if your motive is avoiding the amp making it's own contribution to the sound as much as possible.

My own experience with both a Digitech RP500 and a Line 6 HD500 as preamps with a Carvin TS-100 power amp through various cabs taught me a lot. Running, say, a Fender Bassman model with a 4 x 10 (which both the RP500 and HD500 had) cab simulation into either my Tanoy monitors or a couple of floor wedges using a clean solid state amp, the sound that came out was a fair approximation of an old tweed Bassman. Running it through the Carvin and a couple of Tone Tubby 12" speakers sounded like something else entirely as both the Tone Tubbys and the Carvin added their own sonic signature to the mix, with the sound of EL-34's starting to breakup coming through loud and clear, but only when I cranked the amp. Now some of those "hybrid" sounds were cool, but I thought most of them sounded better if I turned off the speaker sims in both processors and used the pre-amp only simulations in the HD500, while turning off the amp emulation in the RP500. In other words, the louder I turned up the rig, the more it sounded like the Carvin/Tone Tubby combination, and the less it sounded like the Bassman. Guitar amps and speakers are designed to produce sound, not reproduce it. Running amp sim distortion into real amp distortion or speaker sims into real guitar speakers may result in something that's cool sounding and maybe not.

Your cab and amp combination are going to color whatever sound goes into them, for good or bad. This would probably be good if you are running something like a MARSHALL JMP-1 PREAMP on the Axe FX but a little less so if you’re running a Deluxe Reverb or an AC-30 sim on the Fractal and expect the result to sound much like either of those amps.

If you're using the Axe-FX to replace your Mesa gear, 2:Ninety is fine. But if you're going for the variety of amp modeling in there, skip the 2:Ninety and get a 2:Fifty instead.

The 2:Ninety is a Simul-class power amp. This is a very unique amp sound specific to the Mark-series tone. It does NOT translate well to other preamps. I strongly advise the more neutral tone of the 2:Fifty, which has a more traditional "classic" 6L6 tone. OR... if you're more of a metal guy, get the 2:100 Recto power amp, which had the power amp section of a Dual Rectifier instead of a Mark IV.

Scott

You know what Scott...this is uncanny. Because I'm new to this whole rack thingy, I bought BOTH an older 2:90 and a newer 2:50. Just so I could compare.

The 2:90 is an older one that came with a bunch of mismatched tubes....so I took it into the Mesa store here in LA to get a complete overhaul/check/re-tube etc.

I have been using the 2:50 in the meantime with the Axe FX and was TOTALLY happy with everything i was hearing. What an amazing setup.

So I kept thinking "when the 2:90 gets back it's only gonna get better!"

Tonight I finally got around to trying out the 2:90 and while I did like it....it turned out to be a completely different beast than the 2:50.

I understand fully what you mean about the 2:50 being more 'neutral'....the 2:90 is MUCH more aggressive with tons more bottom end.

I'll keep them both for different applications.

Here's my newly built rack.

That is one heavy rack! And I'm not even talking about tone .

Great rig. I assume you're using the axe fx for fx with your Mark V and on it's own with the 2:Ninety for modeled sounds?

People don't always realize how different those Mesa power amps can sound, even though they are all 6l6 designs.

Yes, These two...the 2:90 and 2:50 sound WAYY different.

So I spent a week playing/tweaking, playing/tweaking and playing/tweaking again with the 2:90 powering the Axe FX and was able to get some kickass presets out of it....very useable and still plenty of room to adjust to taste.

I switched back to the 2:50 today and WOW!!! The presets dialed with the 2:90 sound COMPLETELY different through it. MUCH less bottom end and breathier/clearer overall...in some cases thinner too.

One thing I could not get with the 2:90 were clean tones I liked....I was trying to get an Ozzy 'Killer of Giants' chimey chorused, compressed tone but could never find that beautiful cleanliness...as soon as I hooked up the 2:50 again...IT WAS THERE!!! Perfect.

This experiment has been cool and I think I like the 2:50 better for my taste/application.

I will be in the market for a Triaxis to pair with the 2:90 and well.....build another rack!

Hellraiser6502 said:

I will be in the market for a Triaxis to pair with the 2:90 and well.....build another rack!

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An excellent idea. That pretty much nails the entire collection of Mark series tones, and then some.

I like (and own) both. However, if the 2:50 had the modes of the 2:90, I would probably just own that. I haven't been super thrilled with the Simul Class.

well this has been an informative thread.
I just bought an early 50/50 power amp ,(red light) no depth mod to it) to run
...........................wait for it ......................an Axe Fx Ultra (or II if I can get my hands on one)
I was hoping the 50/50 would be more of a Neutral sounding power amp than the 2:90.
I'm going to be using this primarily at home and at small jam sessions( to power a recto 2X12)
so one of the things that really appealed to me was the low powr 15 watt option. I will be in that mode alot when
playing at home.
so question, is the deep mod something I should get done to power an Axe-FX or would I need that more to power a
specific "tube" preamp , like a JMP-1? or an Engl pre?

kmanick said:

well this has been an informative thread.
I just bought an early 50/50 power amp ,(red light) no depth mod to it) to run
...........................wait for it ......................an Axe Fx Ultra (or II if I can get my hands on one)
I was hoping the 50/50 would be more of a Neutral sounding power amp than the 2:90.
I'm going to be using this primarily at home and at small jam sessions( to power a recto 2X12)
so one of the things that really appealed to me was the low powr 15 watt option. I will be in that mode alot when
playing at home.
so question, is the deep mod something I should get done to power an Axe-FX or would I need that more to power a
specific "tube" preamp , like a JMP-1? or an Engl pre?

Click to expand...

Don't worry about any mods for your older Mesa 50/50. It will be a very nice sounding, neutral power amp for your Axe FX, and that rig through your Recto 212 should be great. The low power mode is great -- it was sad to see it go on the 2:Fifty that replaced the 50/50.

I don't know enough about the deep mod for the 50/50 to comment on how that might improve things.

kmanick said:

well this has been an informative thread.
I just bought an early 50/50 power amp ,(red light) no depth mod to it) to run
...........................wait for it ......................an Axe Fx Ultra (or II if I can get my hands on one)
I was hoping the 50/50 would be more of a Neutral sounding power amp than the 2:90.
I'm going to be using this primarily at home and at small jam sessions( to power a recto 2X12)
so one of the things that really appealed to me was the low powr 15 watt option. I will be in that mode alot when
playing at home.
so question, is the deep mod something I should get done to power an Axe-FX or would I need that more to power a
specific "tube" preamp , like a JMP-1? or an Engl pre?

Click to expand...

The so called "Deep Mod" is the only mod Boogie ever did to the 50/50, and only to voice it better to the Triaxis when that was introduced.
I modded my 50/50 according to these specs and it sounds really killer with my Triaxis.
Here´s a thread I posted on the ADADepot forum with detailed instructions on this specific mod.
I also did Crane´s bias mod that he posted in here.....
I have a pdf-copy of the original Mesa Boogie tech instructions on this mod. PM me if you wanna have it....

If you plan on using the 50/50 with your AxeFX I guess there´s no need to perform the whole mod, but parts of it might be recommended. Especially the part concerning the noise issues with V1 and the Choke.
I´d also replace all power caps as they wear out with time and may present a cause for noise and unreliability.
The 50/50 is built like a tank and sounds awesome, and with some "life-preserving" maintenance it will do even more so.
Same like changing your car´s oil every once in while 8)

Just my 2 €-cents

Cool thanks for the info!
I opend mine up it looks like it's in good shape.
it's going to be a while befoere I actually get my Axe-FX so it's just sitting for now.

still don't have my Axe-Fx yet but today I did get to go to a friend of mines and run his Marshall JMP-1 into it out to
two Marshall 4X12 cabs (greenbacks) and I must say we were both surprised at how big and full it sounded.
I don't think I'll be needing the deep mod, and mine was virtually noise free.
I think I'll be a happy camper with this as my power amp.