Recto Recording Preamp

Is 750 a good price for a new floor model for one of these? I'd like to buy it but I've read a lot of negative reviews on these but you guys should be the experts on Mesa products and I would trust your word since this is a Mesa forum. Some have said the live output is good but recording outputs are not, even with impulse? simulators. They claim there is no good way to direct record with this. Others have said the modern setting is design flawed with a Mesa power amp. Lastly, some say an Engl E530 is far superior. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

First, I would say that 750 is a touch high considering that you can buy a used one for around 500...give or take few bucks. (and floor models are used and abused)
Second, I'd agree that the live outputs are fine but so are the recording outs, you just have to re-tweak your sound as it definately sounds different. But with some practice you can easily figure out your sweet spots.
Third, I've never had an issue with the modern setting when running into any of my Mesa poweramps. And while this amp doesn't play nice with a 20/20 overall (IMO) I think it does well with 50/50's & 2:90's
Lastly, Comparing the E530 to the Recto Pre is akin to apples and oranges, the two just aren't alike enough for comparison other than both having 2 channels. The Engl has an amazing grinding quality, no doubt, but that's all it offers. The clean channel is sterile, brittle, and just doesn't warm up the way I'd like a clean channel to.(IMO) The Recto's clean is nice and smooth and with a bit of tweaking you can find what you're looking for with any of the voicing selections. The gain channel has a nice ability to rock a bit or grind alot depending on voicing selection, but does require a fair amount of work to find the proper settings. Those settings are not universal between the voicing selections and therefore makes it difficult to toggle between them live. (if one were inclined to do so) Additionally, when using the gain channel, reservation is key. Not diming (or even coming close to doing so) the controls is where you'll find that the Recto Pre does offer alot...it just requires some work to get it.
I'm not saying that the Recto Pre is the be all end all of preamps, because it's not. I just find that often times it gets bad press from those that haven't taken the time to explor it completely.

I've never seen them for 500 on ebay. They're usually 650 and up. Have these dropped in price recently because of all the negative feedback and also computer impulse stuff. thanks

Perhaps I'm a bit optimistic But there are so many of these units out there in classified ads that one can really pick and chose their own deal. But I do believe some of the pricing to be associated with some bad press as well as just market saturation.

It seems like a nice unit regardless of what press it's had. I think in this attention deficit society of ours people want to plug and play right out of the box . I don't mind tweaking for hours if I can dial the good sounds. I wonder if these new impulse simulators would make this a bit more recordable though. I think I might offer the shop 625 and see if they'll go for it. They tell me it only has a limited amount of hours on it. Who knows? It should come with the 5 year warranty though. Used ones privately most likely don't

As I mentioned on other post, I really like my Recto Preamp with live outputs to Mesa 2:50 poweramps. When I first bought it, I put EQ controls in "marshall" position ->bass and treble high, mid low. And I remember that I thought what the F#%¤. It's unlike my bandmate's Triaxis where you get almost instant good heavy sound. So after a lot of tweaking and really listening what controls do, I found my sound. I noticed that mid should be rather high, 3 o'clock. others around noon on modern setting. And I did my tubeswapping also, now I have V1: Telefunken 12AX7, V2: Svetlana C 12AX7, V3: Mesa 12AX7, V4: Tungsol 12AX7, V5: JJ 12AX7 and V6: Tungsol 12AX7. That made much difference comparing to Mesa's original tubes.. and Stereo2:Fifty is loaded with Svetlana C 6L6's.

I bought one used for 800€, which I think is great price here. In Europe these costs 1800€ new. :evil:

The other guitarist in our band had Engl E530 same time with Recto and it was very dull sounding. But here it's 479€ new, so Recto should be much better. =D But it should be mentioned that Engl Thunder head I tried for one evening was very good for it's price (500€ used). Very good heavy sound.

The High Gain tube-set from Dougs did wonders for mine.

Do you guys have any tips for overdrive pedals over clean channel on Recto Preamp?

I'm thinking of buying Roctron Patchmate 8 looper and I'm looking for a nice overdriven tones other than Recto. I already have now BB Preamp, EH Nano booster and Marshall Guv'nor. Do you have any thoughts of Radial Tonebone Hot British pedal? Would it give better Marshall tone?

That's a pretty open-ended question as it really depends on what you're looking for specifically. Custom Audio Electronics makes a pretty cool boost/overdrive that sounds good, Humphrey Audio Mods is another I like alot. Of course Analogman and Robert Keely make great tube screamers. But if you're looking for Marshall tone why not just get a JMP-1? They're fairly inexpensive these days, sound great, and easy to use.

I had JMP-1 for years until I sold it for Recto Pre. I'm still thinking about whether to use multiple preamps in my rack, but there's side effect that rack gets bigger and bigger... with a looper&pedalshelf it would be only 8 units big. I had to carry it myself around. JMP-1 was good for that Marshall tone and I regret for selling it. First, I have to buy that looper and test with different pedals on clean channel of Recto Pre.

I use multiple pre's and a looper system, but you could achieve similar results with multiple pedals w/ one pre via a looper as well. You'll have find a balance to how big of a rig you're willing to deal with as well as complexity versus what you gain from such a system.

Is the modern mode on the rectifier amps just to boost the presence or does it actually add low end as well.

Not sure actually...but it does have alot of presence.

clemford said:

Is the modern mode on the rectifier amps just to boost the presence or does it actually add low end as well.

Click to expand...

Aside from each mode dramatically altering how the frequency response is handled (ie: advanced EQ)... modern mode in a Rectifier actually induces a reduction in negative feedback. This fundamentally alters the sound, and is more complex than just an EQ change or extra presence. However, this process occurs (when using the LIVE OUTS) prior to the poweramp stage. When you're using the DIRECT OUTS, the circuitry of the Recto Pre attempts to "mimic" the complete sound of a Dual Rectifier (pre+power) sound.

And an excerpt directly from the Recto Pre's manual:

NOTE: The best results will be achieved for this live scenario by using the companion power amp, the Rectifier Stereo 2:100, and connecting the MODERN trigger jack on the Rear Panel of the Rectifier Preamp to the MODERN trigger port on the Rear Panel of the power amp. This scheme recreates the Recto sound in its authentic form because the negative feedback is removed at the power amp when MODERN is selected on the preamp. This tracking of power styles is identical to that which occurs in the Dual & Triple Rectifier Heads and is crucial to the performance of these Lead sounds.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. I was actually wondering if the lack of negative feedback in the modern mode on the regular heads, not the recto preamp, adds lowered bass response and punch or just extra presence. I assume that the process triggered by the recto preamp to remove the negative feedback in the 2
:100 amp would result in the same sonic response as that in the regular Heads. Not just a simulation. Unless there's something different in the 2:100 versus the Rectifier Heads. I ask because I may spring for an amp down the road. The preamp does however seem to have a modern recto sound when running it through my Tubeworks rt4250. I suppose some of that initial Mesa Rectifier sound must be attributed to the preamp as well as the amp.

A large part of the sound is shaped by the preamp... because this is where the frequency response is initially shaped, where your EQ occurs, etc. Extra sound changes happen at the poweramp stage ONLY if the poweramp is a tube amp; in which case, the compression of the tubes will begin to "color" your sound as you crank the volume. In other words... at lower volumes, your sound is 100% preamp. Only once you reach large volumes (where tube saturation bleeds in) will you get sound coloration from your poweramp. Note that in a solid state amp, it doesn't color the sound (unless the amp designer designed it to do so... usually if this is done, it will be to try and mimic tube saturation). Also note that other factors play into your sound: which cab you're using, which speakers, where you're playing (acoustics), etc.

Due to the above... you'll get near 90%+ of the Recto sound with just the Recto Pre (combined with some other amp/cab/etc). However, it will not be 100% Rectifier sound... but will be very close.

The 2:100 combined with the Recto Pre is essentially an exact duplicated Dual Rectifier in rack form. Specifically... if you hook up a Recto Pre + 2:100, the internal circuitry (especially for Modern mode) will be 100% identical. In other words, you'll get 100% Dual Rectifier sound from a Recto Pre + 2:100 combination, because that is how the internal circuitry is configured.

If you're using the DIRECT OUTS with just the Recto Pre (and you flip the switch on the front to "warm" I think it is, whatever the other choice is from "live")... the Recto Pre is designed to and should emulate a Dual Rectifier connected to an oversized (typical) Mesa Recto 4x12 cab. The idea behind the Recto Pre... is that you can record and play without going through the hassle of hooking up a cab, setting up mics, etc.

Note that the controls on the front of the Recto Pre are VERY sensitive (like all Mesa amps). What you put the knobs at for Recto Pre+2:100+Cab+"live" setting WILL NOT sound the same as Recto Pre+"warm setting">direct recording/playback. You really have to invest time understanding the controls and tweaking them to find the right sound. In my opinion, the Recto Pre is perfectly capable of being used direct. Even more so, there are no issues live (Recto Pre+2:100; this is a Dual Rectifier in disguise!).

The problem, as others have pointed out, is that most people who test out the Recto Pre are unaware of these differences. They assume what works for "live" will work for "warm" (their fancy word for "recording mode"). So many quickly conclude its junk. Additionally, many don't understand Mesa controls. As others note, you can max bass and treble and drop mids on a typical amp and find "that sound" you're looking for. Do this on any Mesa and you'll get horrible sound (typically speaking, there are exceptions a la TriAxis = Metallica lol). On a Mesa amp, particularly the Recto Pre (since that is the amp of discussion here), none of your controls should ever be at or near "zero" OR "max"... someone in between and closer to middle will always be better. And unlike most amp EQs, Mesa's are typically different... in the sense that "bass at 12:00" doesn't mean much; how much bass you actually get depends on how all of the other settings are set; they interplay together!

My overall thoughts: if you like the Rectifier... want it rack mount... get the Recto Pre. If you're more into playing live, you should also get the 2:100.

I purchased my Recto Pre in ~2004 or so for what must have been close to $1,300. I've had ZERO regrets. I have a 2:100 and love the combination. But I've BY LARGE used the DIRECT OUTS in "warm" mode way more than live and I'm happy/impressed with it. Hell... I usually have my rack connected into a sound system to play guitar at home nowadays lol. My ending thoughts are: don't buy a floor model. Buying used isn't bad... but I do believe those prices are closer to ~$700.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people trashing the Recto Pre because of the recording out's. Common sense tells you that it's going to sounds different and the user will need to change settings. Yet so many either don't have the patience (and Mesa's take plenty of it) or just not the desire to get the most out of something. When I first started using it I had learned via the Studio Pre, fortunately, that it takes time and experimentation to get where you wanna be with the unit. The EQ'ing, as you mentioned, takes a subtle hand and a solid ear to find those sweet spots...because sometimes they're microns of a turn away.

I tried the Recto Preamp out for the first time last night. I first ran it through my Tubeworks Power amp that has EL34's and it sounded real nice. Granted it was 2 in the morning so I could not crank it up but the amp does have built in attenuators that saturates the tubes at low volumes. I personally think that the passive tone controls on all my preamps don't quite cut it,no pun, and can greatly benefit from some active eq. So I ran it through my DOD Qxlr 430 and then into the amp. It now has that tight punchy low end that will hopefully give that recto thump when I have the change to crank it. I've never heard a rectifier in person to witness the lows but it seems to sound like recordings I've heard. I then ran the recording outputs into the DOD EQ and then directly into my Korg D1200. After a little fiddling I quickly found a nice punchy sound without that usual preamp fizz. Those recording outputs really do work. I really don't even think it needs the EQ recording direct. I had the EQ pretty much flat flat with just the lows boosted a little. It seems like varying between the recording output and the master increases the fatness or depth of the sound . I really only spent a short time with it so more time is definitely needed.The only problem I can find with this so far is it seems to break up badly if the gain and master controls are too high. Someone else complained about this. I have to try it out more to see if there really is a problem. Overall my first impression of this preamp is good. In time I'll post some clips if this site allows it.

I'm glad to hear you like the sound of the Recto Pre.. I'm very interested in trying to use EL34 power tubes with Stereo2:50 and Rectifier preamp. Has any of you tried that? What kind of difference does it make? I've read that clean channel gets worse and second channel modern mode gets better. Is that really so?

Someone try the Recto Pre with a 50/50? I´m very curious about how can they sound together. I read at this forum that Recto pre and 2:90 doens´t seems to fit together because the simul class, and not the mark´s voicing.