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tfletcher02

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Hey everyone!

Brand new here and I feel like I have read the entire site in 3 days! Great resource and community!

I'm in pursuit of a Mesa! Problem is, I'm not sure which one, so any help and opinions are welcomed and appreciated! I've been using a line 6 helix and want to get back in the amp arena.

I definitely (think :)) I want 3 channels. I briefly heard a modded mark iii recently that was awesome but also very loud. I would like to be able to get loud and at times stay bedroom quiet. I've watched all the videos on line, well most of them I would say, and this can make things more confusing in some ways. I want a head and cab.

So any thoughts about the:

Mark v
Mark iv
Mark iii
Jp2c
Tc-50

I even considered a mark 5 : 35 with a flux drive or a pedal for 3rd channel.

And suggested cabs/speakers...

I mostly play clean to tweedish tones, classic rock, blues, 80's harder rock, and a very little chug chug rock. I was ready to get a mark 5 and started reading about this "honky mids" thing some people are talking about. So I thought maybe the jp2c, but read it doesn't do blues or low gain. Then I considered the tc 50, and read it doesn't do mesa very well but rather sounds like a Marshall (probably okay for me) but not very versatile. Finally read about mark iv and iii, which seem great but don't offer modern conveniences and versatility (possibly) of the new models.

Not out gigging but do play with friends etc.

Thanks for your help!!!
 
What modern features are you needing?

I have been using a Mark IV for years and it is extremely versatile. I don't play metal either. And the Mark IV excels for what I need: Cleans and classic rock. A lot of people don't like channel 2, but I get some good Marshall-type tones from it. Channel 3 is an excellent lead channel. The Mark IV sounds good at bedroom volume, and even "gooder" when you crank it. Mine may be unusual, but it does not have a mid/honking issue. Line out, silent mode, effects loop, and a ton of tone-shaping controls.

It has been out for a number of years. And, that may account for the lack of some of the newer features you may want.
 
Hey bgh! Thanks for the reply!

You have opened my eyes to some things about the mark iv. I went and did some research and it looks like a great option. I didn't realize it had silent recording.

Most of the "modern" options are lower volume possibilities and quiet circuits (assumptions about older amps on my part).

I am going to read up on the iv but I have a feeling I'll be shopping for one as well!

Thanks for your help!
 
The mark iv's recording out is pretty bad imo. The smaller mark v's have both headphone out and the mesa cabclone built which sound be MUCH better sounding. They have more features in general, but it depends what you want, I have heard cleans are about even with the mark iv, channel 2 is supposed to be better (or at least more versatile) than the mark iv's r2 (although personally I think it is very good and underrated), and more people lean towards the mark iv for channel 3 but still the v's is very good. Mark iv is 85w, while the smaller mark v's come in 25w and 35w and can be run at lower wattage. If you are mostly going to classic and hard rock, I'd personally recommend the V (although obv it can do metal too if you are into that). Either the mark iv or v is a good choice though and you can't go wrong with either. JP-2C is probably overkill unless you think otherwise.
 
I think the Mark V might be a great fit for you. There's been a lot of exiting news in this thread about using a 12AT7 (and specifically some cheap NOS Jan Phillips ones) in the V4 or V6 position to tame the biting unpleasant attribute some people disliked about the Mark V.

With that taken care of, it's got phenomenally good volume controls, I can easily get some fun tones at whisper volumes between the channel Masters and the global Output control. And that's without even messing with the 45w or 10w modes which do make it even quieter.

Beyond that, between the Clean, Fat, and Tweed modes on channel 1 you should have plenty of options for clean to blues, some nice blues to rock crunch on channel 2 (not to mention that Mark I smoother lead sound), and then the lead channel which obviously had a lot of play in the 80s and doesn't have to be metal. There's some nice videos out from Haggerty's music I think, which goes in depth on all three modes on all three channels with multiple tones each to show you what's possible.

The IV is obviously a classic as well, and many people like it. Try and find some clips of R2 though. Although some think it's underrated, obviously a lot of people found it underwhelming for it to have the reputation it does.

The JP2C would possibly do the job too, but instead of a mid-gain crunch channel, you've basically got two leads and a clean. You could duck the gain and get into mid-gain range, but you'll really want to try out a Mark series Lead channel and see if it would do what you needed with the gain low.
 
Thank you guys for responding...not sure how to thank you directly on the forum but thanks.

I read about the tube changes and it seems "straight forward". In many ways it seems as
Though I'm splitting hairs in choosing the correct amp!

It seems highly possible, like many of you, that this will become which amp to purchase FIRST rather than which one.

I will take your advice and listen to the clips.

Going to try to play some mesa's in person at the music store out of town where I will be traveling.

Thanks for all your input!

If you have an opinion please share it! Thanks!
 
IronSean said:
I think the Mark V might be a great fit for you. There's been a lot of exiting news in this thread about using a 12AT7 (and specifically some cheap NOS Jan Phillips ones) in the V4 or V6 position to tame the biting unpleasant attribute some people disliked about the Mark V.

With that taken care of, it's got phenomenally good volume controls, I can easily get some fun tones at whisper volumes between the channel Masters and the global Output control. And that's without even messing with the 45w or 10w modes which do make it even quieter.

Beyond that, between the Clean, Fat, and Tweed modes on channel 1 you should have plenty of options for clean to blues, some nice blues to rock crunch on channel 2 (not to mention that Mark I smoother lead sound), and then the lead channel which obviously had a lot of play in the 80s and doesn't have to be metal. There's some nice videos out from Haggerty's music I think, which goes in depth on all three modes on all three channels with multiple tones each to show you what's possible.

The IV is obviously a classic as well, and many people like it. Try and find some clips of R2 though. Although some think it's underrated, obviously a lot of people found it underwhelming for it to have the reputation it does.

The JP2C would possibly do the job too, but instead of a mid-gain crunch channel, you've basically got two leads and a clean. You could duck the gain and get into mid-gain range, but you'll really want to try out a Mark series Lead channel and see if it would do what you needed with the gain low.

I second this. The V is the most versatile to varying sounds and playing styles on the list. The JP, while it may do rock well, it was designed specifically for straight clean (no breakup) and Dream Theater metal. I think you'll find V's channel 1 - tweed and Channel 2 great for the sounds you're after. Plus you can get more warmth and sag with the additional options in rectification, watt selections and variac power. I don't really play blues and rock but I've only recently started experimenting with tweed and clean clip and I absolutely love it.

Even a Mark V 25 would do well as this was the first Mark to include the increased gain on the mid range control (above 12o'clock) which sounds great. Haven't really been able to replicate that on the 90w mark v yet. I'm sure the older Marks are fantastic although I can't talk to those. I imagine the feature set on the new amps makes using the amps more practical.

As mentioned the V has an overall output control which gets to very low volume levels on all wattage settings. I personally use an attenuator as well, but certainly not out of necessity. Just means I can record at a consistent volume. If you do end up opting for the JP or other amps that don't have an overall output master this could be something you might want to look into as it'll allow you to turn the speaker volume down to any level. I use the Torpedo Reload for this but Two Notes just released a low priced Torpedo Captor which includes an attenuator, DI and loadbox.
 
The Mark Series amps and the term boogie came from a small package footprint. Mark III or even the Mark IV (both of those were just move the master volume past 3 and you are at full power, no gradual taper... that was the intent and where boogie came to be but may not be practical for most applications).

No fear as the more modern Mesa amps do not have that look at how small it is and bam in your face loud. At least the JP-2C has some relative low volume usage but not bedroom level. Fun amp but rule it out as you will never get the amp in the sweet spot at bedroom level. Even at the 60W power setting.

If you are looking for moderate loudness and to tone it down to bedroom levels, your list should include the Mark V 35 as well as the Rectoverb 25 combo.

A combo amp will sound quieter than a head with cab at its top volume setting and can be dialed down low enough to still enjoy it but with the following models as they feature selectable power settings down to 10Ws. Also note, a combo amp can drive any other cabinet in combination with the combo speaker or just the cabinet (112, 212, 412).

Mark V (the big one) 90W/45W/10W only)
Mark V:35 (35W/25W/10W has cab clone and head phone for silent playing)
Mark V:25 (not as loud as the other two) 25W/10W and cab clone for silent playing
Rectoverb 25 (25W/10W only)

TC-50 (50W only but has cab clone and head phone for silent playing ) is one loud amp but no way near the craziness of the Mark III that you played though. However it can also be run at lower master volumes to be considered tamed to family or neighbors. You can even change to 6V6 for half power settings but will require change in tubes. It is actually great at lower volumes as that is where I run mine but often push the envelope and still enjoy the feel of air pushing against me. Not loud enough to cause heart failure but will definitely cause hearing loss, more so with a 412 cab. At least the TC-50 can be used with a singe 1X12. Either get a combo and add a 1x12 extension cab (wide body ) will give you options. There may be some tonal change running two 8 ohms in parallel using the 4 ohm setting. That is how I run my Mark V all the time as it is a combo. And just because it is a combo does not mean I cannot run any of the other cabs. Besides the MC90 blends quite well with the V30. My preference is a head with vertical 212 but if a combo makes more sense at least you can opt for and extension cab. Best of all you can carry them much easier than the other formats.

Cab clone and headphone use, one thing I always forget about. Even the JP-2C has the cab clone and headphone for silent playing.
 
bandit2013 said:
The Mark Series amps and the term boogie came from a small package footprint. Mark III or even the Mark IV (both of those were just move the master volume past 3 and you are at full power, no gradual taper... that was the intent and where boogie came to be but may not be practical for most applications).

No fear as the more modern Mesa amps do not have that look at how small it is and bam in your face loud. At least the JP-2C has some relative low volume usage but not bedroom level. Fun amp but rule it out as you will never get the amp in the sweet spot at bedroom level. Even at the 60W power setting.

If you are looking for moderate loudness and to tone it down to bedroom levels, your list should include the Mark V 35 as well as the Rectoverb 25 combo.

A combo amp will sound quieter than a head with cab at its top volume setting and can be dialed down low enough to still enjoy it but with the following models as they feature selectable power settings down to 10Ws. Also note, a combo amp can drive any other cabinet in combination with the combo speaker or just the cabinet (112, 212, 412).

Mark V (the big one) 90W/45W/10W only)
Mark V:35 (35W/25W/10W has cab clone and head phone for silent playing)
Mark V:25 (not as loud as the other two) 25W/10W and cab clone for silent playing
Rectoverb 25 (25W/10W only)

TC-50 (50W only but has cab clone and head phone for silent playing ) is one loud amp but no way near the craziness of the Mark III that you played though. However it can also be run at lower master volumes to be considered tamed to family or neighbors. You can even change to 6V6 for half power settings but will require change in tubes. It is actually great at lower volumes as that is where I run mine but often push the envelope and still enjoy the feel of air pushing against me. Not loud enough to cause heart failure but will definitely cause hearing loss, more so with a 412 cab. At least the TC-50 can be used with a singe 1X12. Either get a combo and add a 1x12 extension cab (wide body ) will give you options. There may be some tonal change running two 8 ohms in parallel using the 4 ohm setting. That is how I run my Mark V all the time as it is a combo. And just because it is a combo does not mean I cannot run any of the other cabs. Besides the MC90 blends quite well with the V30. My preference is a head with vertical 212 but if a combo makes more sense at least you can opt for and extension cab. Best of all you can carry them much easier than the other formats.

Cab clone and headphone use, one thing I always forget about. Even the JP-2C has the cab clone and headphone for silent playing.


Bandit,

What about tube change requirements on the v:35 (like (edit:) apemans thread in mark v)?

I thought about a v 35 with a flux drive eq...as a 3rd channel option. Curious about opinions on this?

Thanks again!!!
 
the saturation mod is not my thread... credit goes to APEMAN. All I did was offer a suggestion for the 12AT7 in V4 vs V6 as the ice pick tone is generated by abundance of gain in the upper frequency range due to the design of the two cascaded gain stages from V5A to V4B. Also there are some differences between the Mark V and the Mark IV of the similar cascaded gain stage section such that the Mark IV did not suffer the ice pick tone as it lacked the grid to cathode capacitor on the second gain stage but is present on the Mark V which may act as positive feedback on the higher frequency. I did not run an analysis on it but realized if the gain was dropped in the second stage the higher order harmonics would be reduced thus killing the ice pick. Tube choice does matter as a warmer tube will have more roll off on the higher frequencies and it is just enough to place the Mark V tone character of CH3 on par with the JP-2C.

As for the Mark V:25 and Mark V:35. Not really sure what effect a 12AT7 would have. If I posted anything it was based on the manual and what the probable tube position that may have a similar circuit to the Mark V. The original post was a fix for the ice pick tone of CH3 on the Mark V and everything else remains the same. I am unfamiliar with the Mark V variants to make any claims on how the tube change would affect performance as it seems that the tube task chart seems to share more than one channel. I am sure something similar could be implemented in the JP-2C but I see no apparent benefit as the amp has the classic Mesa tone everyone strives for.
Keep in mind that the same tube may sound completely different in another amp design. It is all based on the design of the gain circuit, operating plate voltage and amount of cathode bypass capacitance is used. Another factor is the power tubes, the EL84 are quite different than EL34 or 6L6 in gain characteristics and tone. Actually it becomes more subjective than ideal. One would need to review the schematics of the amps in question to determine if the 12AT7 could be used without issue. For the Mark V there did not seem to be any apparent issue with the 12AT7 in V4 for the reverb send and the gain stage. For the other amps it is uncertain. Typically the lowest gain in the 12A series for the 12AX7 would be the 12AT7. Probably a better fit would be a 5751. Typically the JAN (military grade tubes) will perform the best vs consumer grade tubes but in the 5751 arena they will also cost more.
 
bandit2013 said:
If you are looking for moderate loudness and to tone it down to bedroom levels, your list should include the Mark V 35 as well as the Rectoverb 25 combo.

I had excluded those because of the requirement for 3 channels, and the need to have versatility between clean/blues/classic/80s rock. The 35 would be fantastic for live volumes and bedroom, and can do all of those sounds, but not so easily in the same set without starting to rely on a number of pedals.

Through pedals it could probably be made to work. I'd maybe do a clean tone, use a pedal to push it to blues, use another to push it to your rock sounds, then use the second channel for heavier/80s tones and leads (possibly also using a boost to jump between gain levels.

I'm not familiar with the Flux drive but it might work for one or more of those purposes at a time.

Also, note that the Mark V:25, though it has 25w and 10w modes, doesn't have a global Output volume, it just has the channel masters for each channel. This gives you a little less granularity on the low end of the volume control which is why I think it would actually be less practical for quiet sounds than the 90w or 35w models.


For the saturation mod on the V:25/35, Markageddon had good results putting the tube in V2, which takes over the roll of V4 in the 90w head I believe. Somewhere in a thread I looked at the tube tasks and figured out which ones matched.

But also the 25/35 seemed to be plagued less with the high, brittle sound people were trying to fix. Many people on here said they just preferred the sound of the smaller marks to the 90w, so the tubes/power amp configuration itself might naturally counteract the issue on the smaller marks.
 
Oops, I did it again and wrote another novel.... sorry for the long post :roll:

The flux drive is a mark in the box where as the throttle box is a rectifier in a box. I have both flux drive and grid slammer and they do wonders on the Mark V, and JP-2C. Yes I said the JP-2C! Trick with the flux drive is to use a lower gain setting on the pedal and the amps will just flourish with all the juicy zing you cannot get with a simple tube swap. Unfortunately the flux drive does nothing for the Roadster... On the RA100 or TC-50, input is a bit on the sensitive side so it is difficult to run any OD or tube screamer on the front end. I would have to re-visit the TC-50 with the flux drive and or grid slammer as I do not believe that has been tried since I got the TC-50. I did attempt with the RA100 and was not overjoyed with it. Those pedals are a hit with a Mark amp.

Considering the original post, I would assume that it is desired to have all three channels independent from each other. Sure the Mark III is an awesome amp but will take a considerable amount of time to dial in a clean channel or bluesy channel since all of the controls are shared. I had one and it was just dial in what you like and leave it there. Changing from a desired Rhythm tone and then to lead did not always amount to an easy task as I may want more bass on the rhythm and higher gain on the lead. I did love the Mark III but did not like the decoder ring style of dialing in the settings. (needed manual or templates to mark the settings to reference, a cell phone would have been a better option but I did not have one at that time). The same issue relates to the Mark IV such that the two rhythm channels shared common mid and bass but had separate treble. Still a better alternative to the Mark III but not ideal. The Mark V solved all of those issues but also had one other that was not easy to overcome until recently (hence the saturation mod thread). Also the Mark V is the reason I tossed all of my rack gear as the units were not compatible with line level signals when using the MKV FXLOOP. There are some products out there that will do level shifting (for example: Ebtech LLS-2), had I seen it I would have been able to keep my old gear and some pedals that would not work at line level. Oh well, I do like the Strymon stuff anyway so it was a good move. I can even use them with the Mixer so there is another benefit there. They also work well with instrument level too.

I will admit after doing the saturation mod on the Mark V, I love it just as much as the JP-2C. And the plus to that story is the V has more vices to choose from vs the JP. What is not apparent in the JP-2C is I can dial in any tone I can get out of the Mark V with the exception of the Tweed V:CH1 or Edge V:CH2 (probably the most useless voice on the V as there is nothing British about it with the 6L6 power tubes in use, also brittle as heck). Kudos on CH2 would be for the Crunch and Mark I. All of CH3 is usable with the tube swap mod. The JP-2C does not need any fix to make it sound awesome, it just does.

TC-50 is a well loaded amp. CH1 has to be my favorite for clean to gritty blues and even classic rock. CH2 is your crunch channel but can be used as lead as well and CH3 can be anything from medium clean with clip to just down and dirty chug metal. It is quite versatile as I generally play more classic rock (led Zep, ACDC)

Now we can limit down to three models: Mark V 90W, JP-2C, and TC-50. All of which have independent control of each channel (presence, treble, mid, bass, gain, volume). Only two of them can be run in silent mode (JP-2C and TC-50 using the cab clone). Only two have midi control (JP-2C and TC-50) but is not a selecting criteria ). However, there are only two on the list that can be loud as well as sound great at bedroom level: Mark V and TC-50. Sure the JP-2C can be used at reduced volume (to compensate for the increased bass us the shred switch to regain some treble and cut the bass a bit). The JP-2C is primarily a concert amp and best suited for gig level playing. A true beast but can be tamed for lower volume, but not bedroom level by any means unless you get a reactive attenuator or power load box. At least you can use the JP-2C in silent mode with headphones. Mark V currently does not have that feature (cab clone).

The two amps that have Master control on all three channels:
Mark V (when using the FX loop active) and the TC-50. Both also have a solo boost control that is foot switchable. Only the TC-50 has the midi.

The two amps that use independent Master controls on all three channels:
Mark V (when the FX loop is in hard bypass) and the JP-2C (does not have a global master control or solo boost).

Two amps that have cab clone for silent playing (head phones)
JP-2C and TC-50

Two amps that can use other power tubes than what it ships with: (6L6, EL34, or other)
Mark V (6L6/EL34), TC-50 (EL-34, 6V6, 6L6).

The TC-50 fits many categories. It is a bit different than a Mark series amp in its tonal pallet but fits the classic rock and blues so well. Does not require 5BEQ as the full tone of the amp is well tuned to sound great as is. Clean channel is very nice for many styles of playing and is the most versatile of the three. Not quite a Marshall, Vox or Orange but similar, not exactly a Mark or Rectifier but similar. What ever it is does fit most styles. I could not decide between the JP-2C, Mark V, or the TC-50. All are great choices. It depends on what exactly you are after and will you find the tone you are seeking?
If you are after legendary Mark series Mesa tone, the JP-2C is the ideal, Mark V with saturation mod is the other. But sometimes the Mark tone does not fit the song or style.

The hard thing to do is to find a place that has the amps in question and try them out, still the recommended choice if the option is feasible. This may be very difficult for many of us to do so. I had to drive 560 miles out of my way to get a test drive on the TC-50 (was on Vacation visiting family so was worth the drive). Also compared it to a new Mark V. Had opportunity to compare the Mark V:25 and V:35 and JP-2C as all of them were there in the store in NJ available. I was on Vacation in PA so the 1.5hr trip was no big deal vs the 10 hr it took me to get there from NC) I think it is more difficult to decide based on recorded videos or clips since the real feel of the amp in person will reveal the actual tone you hear when you play though the amp. It may be a bit different than what you hear in recordings. One thing I can say about the Mark V even with the ice pick tone, it records well as some of the content gets filtered out and can be altered after the recording. With the saturation mod it sound awesome in person. TC-50 sounds better in real life than the recordings as does the JP-2C. In both cases after unboxing the amps I was not immediately impressed. TC-50 was a bit harsh and bright (burn in the tubes and mids just blossom oh yeah). JP-2C seemed a bit lame but at bedroom level it will. Where is the gain... it is there and plenty of it too. Read the manual usually helps a great deal and forget about what you remember from other amps on how to dial in the settings. Sometimes it is great if you can demo an amp since it may be past the burn in phase of the tubes (EL34) or power supply has settled to its nominal levels.

As for a Cab choice, the Mesa Recto Vertical 212 has got to be one of the best sounding cabinets I own. Sound is huge, tight bottom, overall well balanced tone and despite its weight (70lbs) it is easy to carry due to the side scooped handles. I also have two Mesa Recto OS 412, one Recto horizontal 212, and a modified Egnator traditional sized 412 that I changed speakers it was cheep and the materials of construction indicate it but it sound good enough to use. In all of my cabinet options, Vert 212 is my favorite. TC-50 and the Mark V head will fit just well (too bad my Mark V is a combo :cry: ). JP-2C having the smallest foot print will have no issue sitting on top.
 
That's fantastic verbiage bandit2013. I love reading your descriptions and information lol. I couldn't agree more with you either. In my opinion, you want the TC50 given all the things you want/need. And all you have to do is read what bandit2013 wrote and the proof is right there. I will recommend to try them if you can though as he states. Very important. Good luck!
 
Oh yeah, there is one other feature present on the TC-50 that the other Mesa amps (or at least the one's I have) do not have........this has to do with the reverb circuit when in use.... guess what it is? (note I will have to confirm if the RA100 does it or not).

Reverb wash when changing channels from any gain to clean, does not happen. It is just ideal and does not matter what the reverb levels are set too, no wash or fade-in to bother you if you want a silent moment when you switch channels. This is common with Roadster, Mark V, JP-2C and occurs when switching from one channel to another you year this odd sound ramping up which is caused by a momentary disabling of the reverb circuit and then it slowly ramps up and you hear it. Not so with the TC-50. I think Mesa needs to learn what they did with the TC-50 and apply it to the other products.

I have no regrets buying this amp. Sure I was uncertain since I ordered from Sweetwater, sight unseen. I did try one in December but kept the volume low due to being next to the front desk and the phone kept ringing among other things. After owning it for a while, it gets used the most and is extremely fun and versatile amp. Probably the best EL34 amp I own. The RA100's come in at a close second but the Hi gain and lo gain channel just sounds so good. Clean is superb in normal or drive.
 
To be honest the amp you listed with the most versatility is the MK V 90. Big fan of it as I personally have one and I can get plexi, saturated gain, extreme crung, and pristine cleans out of that amp. I think mine was money well spent.
 

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