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Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:01 pm
by thediavlo
IronSean wrote:Well in that case he doesn't even use the JC-120 Chorus circuit, he uses a Boss CH-1 and/or TC Electronic rack effects. That'd certainly be easier to add in, if Mesa were willing to put some digital effects in an amp :P

If they were going to try and blend Mark and Recto tones, I'm curious what it would actually take:
Mark Lead Channel is 5 triodes just for the tone (before effects loop, Reverb, phase inverter). - 2.5 tubes
Recto Orange/Red is the same, 5 triodes for the main sound. - 2.5 tubes
Reverb, Effects Loop, Phase Inverter, - 3 Tubes.

So I guess we're only at 8.

Though I think I'm with you on it not being am optimal plan. With a separate power amp and cab you get more distinction, and you also get the ability to play with mic placement to counteract any phasing issues, etc.
I guess one way to go with that not optimal thing is allowing two sepa :shock: rate speaker outs like the road king. dont think thats where they will go though.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:45 am
by barryswanson
Theory F. It's some kind of Rectifier with a built in five band EQ

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:40 pm
by thediavlo
barryswanson wrote:Theory F. It's some kind of Rectifier with a built in five band EQ
That would be pretty bad ass. wonder what kind of monstrous tones would be achievable with that sh!t.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:29 am
by barryswanson
I run a mesa five band EQ in the loop of my dual Rectifier and it can make it sound big, really big.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:21 am
by thediavlo
barryswanson wrote:I run a mesa five band EQ in the loop of my dual Rectifier and it can make it sound big, really big.
that makes my pants a little wet to be honest :oops: :P :oops: :P :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:51 am
by Thaymz
IronSean wrote: Possibly. Could also be a test amp or prototype. Maybe he was helping them tune an internal gain setting on the TC-50 before it released and they gave him one to find the sweet spot on a knob that would eventually become a fixed resistor. (same as the Mark V has the Volume knob on the lead channel fixed, at 7.5, or the JP-2C as 4 fixed values to choose between). Being a prototype/test amp would explain why it's larger than usual (more room to work inside) and have exctra knobs for things that aren't final. Then perhaps he kept it because he know it could make sounds no stock amp ever would.

Or I present Theory E: It's just the Volume knob(input gain), like older Mark series amps had, for adjusting both gain controls like you could on a IIC+-IV.
As much as I'd love for there to be a JH Mesa I'm inclined to agree with the prototype theory. Specifically, helping them determine the 'magical spot' for Vol 1 to go into either the V or the JP2C. I'm betting the JP given the V volume was lower than what James used to, and probably still does, set it to.

It's also no secret that Petrucci's goal sound is Metallica and Puppets album which he talks about when discussing his tonal options in the JP.

The manual also mentions polls from artists and c+ afficianados when determining some of the internally preset settings
.
Image

Doubt there's anyone better to help them determine how to achieve it. Although, I'd love to be wrong on this.

The other knobs may be experimenting with the new pull presence and shred frequencies.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:03 am
by thediavlo
Thaymz wrote:
IronSean wrote: Possibly. Could also be a test amp or prototype. Maybe he was helping them tune an internal gain setting on the TC-50 before it released and they gave him one to find the sweet spot on a knob that would eventually become a fixed resistor. (same as the Mark V has the Volume knob on the lead channel fixed, at 7.5, or the JP-2C as 4 fixed values to choose between). Being a prototype/test amp would explain why it's larger than usual (more room to work inside) and have exctra knobs for things that aren't final. Then perhaps he kept it because he know it could make sounds no stock amp ever would.

Or I present Theory E: It's just the Volume knob(input gain), like older Mark series amps had, for adjusting both gain controls like you could on a IIC+-IV.
As much as I'd love for there to be a JH Mesa I'm inclined to agree with the prototype theory. Specifically, helping them determine the 'magical spot' for Vol 1 to go into either the V or the JP2C. I'm betting the JP given the V volume was lower than what James used to, and probably still does, set it to.

It's also no secret that Petrucci's goal sound is Metallica and Puppets album which he talks about when discussing his tonal options in the JP.

The manual also mentions polls from artists and c+ afficianados when determining some of the internally preset settings
.
Image

Doubt there's anyone better to help them determine how to achieve it. Although, I'd love to be wrong on this.

The other knobs may be experimenting with the new pull presence and shred frequencies.

I like this theory a lot. Definitely could be a prototype for something interesting, i also think about the fact of the differences in james and Johns settings being quite similar but very different. I definitely think this is gonna be a JH amp or updated mark series with that volume to give that grind that Metallica is so famous for.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:48 pm
by Markedman
Hetfield's rig was the first to have 2 GEQ's! A Rectifier/Mark amp is sofa king cool of an idea, I agree. I didn't think that the amp in the video was really a prototype, just James messing around.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:34 am
by thediavlo
Markedman wrote:Hetfield's rig was the first to have 2 GEQ's! A Rectifier/Mark amp is sofa king cool of an idea, I agree. I didn't think that the amp in the video was really a prototype, just James messing around.
Ill be honest here. When I saw metallica live back in June, the tone sounded wayyyyyyyy different than when it did even two years ago. Way more punchy and immediate. Less Diezel, more mark series. It kind of makes me wonder if his sound is back to using the more mark series than diezel. The sub lows of the VH 4 are not there. So that brings me to the idea that what we saw in that video could be what he modeled most of his tone after for his live sound using Axe FX. Just a theory, and also the more I think about the amp the more a volume 1 knob sounds right.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:40 am
by stephen sawall
These settings are taken from their amps at a show...

Kirk:
TS9 Settings:
Drive: 1:00
Tone: 2:00
Level: 1:00

Kirk:
Stiletto:
ch1:
100w/50w: 50w
master: 4:00
pres: 4:00
bass: 3:30
mid: 2:00
treble: 3:30
gain: 9:30
mode: (clean)

ch2:
100w/50w: 50w
master: 11:30
pres: 9:00
bass: 5:00
mid: 11:30
treble: 10:00
gain: 2:30
mode: (gain)


Kirk:
Dual recto:
OR:
master
presence: 2:00
bass: 2:30
mid: 8:30
treble: 3:30
gain: 10:00

RD:
master
presence
bass: 12:00
mid: 10:00
treble: 1:00
gain: 1:30


James:
Triple recto:
OR:
master: 9:00
presence: 3:00
bass: 12:00
mid: 1:00
treble: 1:00
gain: 9:00

RD:
master: 10:00
presence: 1:00
bass: 12:00
mid: 11:30
treble: 1:00
gain: 12:00

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:08 am
by IronSean
stephen sawall wrote:These settings are taken from their amps at a show...

Kirk:
TS9 Settings:
Drive: 1:00
Tone: 2:00
Level: 1:00

Kirk:
Stiletto:
ch1:
100w/50w: 50w
master: 4:00
pres: 4:00
bass: 3:30
mid: 2:00
treble: 3:30
gain: 9:30
mode: (clean)

ch2:
100w/50w: 50w
master: 11:30
pres: 9:00
bass: 5:00
mid: 11:30
treble: 10:00
gain: 2:30
mode: (gain)


Kirk:
Dual recto:
OR:
master
presence: 2:00
bass: 2:30
mid: 8:30
treble: 3:30
gain: 10:00

RD:
master
presence
bass: 12:00
mid: 10:00
treble: 1:00
gain: 1:30


James:
Triple recto:
OR:
master: 9:00
presence: 3:00
bass: 12:00
mid: 1:00
treble: 1:00
gain: 9:00

RD:
master: 10:00
presence: 1:00
bass: 12:00
mid: 11:30
treble: 1:00
gain: 12:00
For some context to that above post:

These settings were posted by Monty-Jay (so trustworthy, he had the largest, most accurate collection of live and studio Metallica gear online for ages before he stopped maintaining the website hosting).

It's also from 2005, so over a decade ago and are relevant related to their live sounds at the time but not so much now.

I'm also not entirely sure what it has to do with this thread on the weird prototypey amp at Metallica HQ.

Sourced from here: https://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/sho ... o-Settings

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:58 am
by stephen sawall
Monty told me he wrote down the settings when looking at the amps. It did not come from photos. The reason I posted it is several post in this thread discuss this topic.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Metallica is using AxeFx live now.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:43 am
by thediavlo
stephen sawall wrote:Monty told me he wrote down the settings when looking at the amps. It did not come from photos. The reason I posted it is several post in this thread discuss this topic.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Metallica is using AxeFx live now.
See but the thing is with that, im talking about last june, with a new album and they use blended axe FX models. That definitely was their recto settings but, the thing is that their tone has changed a lot since then. Much less sub low frequencies that are very present in the Recto series/Diezel amps. What I was proposing is that their Axe rig is modeling the amp in the background of the video we were talking about.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:48 am
by thediavlo
stephen sawall wrote:Monty told me he wrote down the settings when looking at the amps. It did not come from photos. The reason I posted it is several post in this thread discuss this topic.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Metallica is using AxeFx live now.
To be honest though I have used these settings and they sound absolutely phenomenal on the recto series in a live mix.

Re: Mesa Signature Amp for James Hetfield. theory analysis

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:02 am
by IronSean
stephen sawall wrote:Monty told me he wrote down the settings when looking at the amps. It did not come from photos. The reason I posted it is several post in this thread discuss this topic.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Metallica is using AxeFx live now.
I didn't say he got them from photos :P

I just wanted to explain to people who might stumble upon this thread without context where they came from, what era they're from, and that the source is about as reputable as you can get with Metallica Gear and Settings info.