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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Mark II

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I have been giving a lot of thought and speculation to the picture I saw recently of an unknown Mesa model in Metallica's Studio. If you look at the picture the branding of is a centered plate that says "Mesa Engineering". Also what I was seeing was a gap between what would be channels 2 and 3 with a switch and a knob there. The graphic EQ was also present within the model in question so I do believe the overall structure of it is based on the Mark series but judging from the position of the camera and the distance away it does seem to be a little bit larger. in length and height. I do believe the switch in the middle could be related to tube rectification for a rectifier like channel because of the added length giving it the space for extra tubes.


My thoughts personally tell me that he would release this at some point during the time of them touring because of the new album hype. If this comes out and can nail every tone of hetfield's I would not mind shilling out my bank account and social security number for it considering I just paid my arm and left leg for a Mark 5.

Let me know what your opinions are in the thread and I would love to discuss the tonal possibilities of this soon to be (fingers crossed) Mesa Monster. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Mark II

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Any links to said picture?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Mark II

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To be honest i've no idea, but i would imagine it to be MK based. Maybe a combo of both MK and Rectifier sounds?
I really hope that it is a Hetfield sig though, it will be expensive as hell but i would have to have one.

The only thing making me think we wont ever find out though is that James is notoriously secretive about his amp settings. A few years ago a friend of mine was lucky enough to get backstage at a smallish gig they did and James's amps were all set to zero. He aint about to let slip his secrets.... Having said though, i'm a firm believer that tone starts in the fingers - If i was to play his guitar through his amp it would sound like me, not the mighty Hetfield. Although getting a bit closer to his tone is something i wouldnt pass up, even if i do have to sell a kidney... :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Mark II

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Image



This is the image it can be found in the videos of metallica with corey in the studio as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Mark II

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https://youtu.be/GAnzAzzZXb0


This is the video it was seen in.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Mark II

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Nick79 wrote:
To be honest i've no idea, but i would imagine it to be MK based. Maybe a combo of both MK and Rectifier sounds?
I really hope that it is a Hetfield sig though, it will be expensive as hell but i would have to have one.

The only thing making me think we wont ever find out though is that James is notoriously secretive about his amp settings. A few years ago a friend of mine was lucky enough to get backstage at a smallish gig they did and James's amps were all set to zero. He aint about to let slip his secrets.... Having said though, i'm a firm believer that tone starts in the fingers - If i was to play his guitar through his amp it would sound like me, not the mighty Hetfield. Although getting a bit closer to his tone is something i wouldnt pass up, even if i do have to sell a kidney... :lol:



I am right there with you man. I have a very similar playing style to him so I feel like I could get pretty close. He has always been secretive about his tone and it sucks because his tone is that of gods.

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Mark V, Mk III blue stripe combo Organic Timbre speaker, JP-2c, Triple Rectifier (reborn multiwatt)
Marshall 1960 full stack, 2 Mesa vertical 2x12, 1 Mesa thiele with EVM 12l black label.
LTD EC-1000x3
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Mark II

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Same here with the playing style. He's been a huge influence on me, and my guitar playing - Friends have commented that my picking hand is pretty much identical to him in style, i must have picked it up sub consiously - Shame i don't have his skill though. But the fun is in trying to get close.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Theory A: It's a blend knob.... channel 2/Recto, channel 3/Crunchberries, blend to taste.

Theory B: it's a chorus knob.... they built the JC-120 chorus into the amp.

Theory C: it's a scoop knob.... they built James' parametric EQ into the amp.

Theory D: it's a dummy amp.... having it in the background wasn't a mistake, they knowingly put it there to f*ck with people.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:44 am 
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Mark III

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I'm going with theory A


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:22 am 
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Mark III

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screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory A: It's a blend knob.... channel 2/Recto, channel 3/Crunchberries, blend to taste.

That would be a highly impractical design. Those are two totally different amp schematics, needing a handful of preamp tubes each, and since I don't know of any tube amp that mixes two high gain signals inside it I assume it's a non-trivial problem to solve in a musical way. Plus half the magic of the Recto line is in the power amp, especially the Modern mode feedback removal thing.

screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory B: it's a chorus knob.... they built the JC-120 chorus into the amp.

Seems unlikely, Mesa doesn't own Roland or the JC-120 :P

screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory C: it's a scoop knob.... they built James' parametric EQ into the amp.

Now this is getting more plausible, especially since there's no straight up boogie amp that's going to nail their studio tones because of the significant extra EQing.

screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory D: it's a dummy amp.... having it in the background wasn't a mistake, they knowingly put it there to f*ck with people.

Possibly. Could also be a test amp or prototype. Maybe he was helping them tune an internal gain setting on the TC-50 before it released and they gave him one to find the sweet spot on a knob that would eventually become a fixed resistor. (same as the Mark V has the Volume knob on the lead channel fixed, at 7.5, or the JP-2C as 4 fixed values to choose between). Being a prototype/test amp would explain why it's larger than usual (more room to work inside) and have exctra knobs for things that aren't final. Then perhaps he kept it because he know it could make sounds no stock amp ever would.

Or I present Theory E: It's just the Volume knob(input gain), like older Mark series amps had, for adjusting both gain controls like you could on a IIC+-IV.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:34 am 
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Mark II

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IronSean wrote:
screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory A: It's a blend knob.... channel 2/Recto, channel 3/Crunchberries, blend to taste.

That would be a highly impractical design. Those are two totally different amp schematics, needing a handful of preamp tubes each, and since I don't know of any tube amp that mixes two high gain signals inside it I assume it's a non-trivial problem to solve in a musical way. Plus half the magic of the Recto line is in the power amp, especially the Modern mode feedback removal thing.

screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory B: it's a chorus knob.... they built the JC-120 chorus into the amp.

Seems unlikely, Mesa doesn't own Roland or the JC-120 :P

screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory C: it's a scoop knob.... they built James' parametric EQ into the amp.

Now this is getting more plausible, especially since there's no straight up boogie amp that's going to nail their studio tones because of the significant extra EQing.

screamingdaisy wrote:
Theory D: it's a dummy amp.... having it in the background wasn't a mistake, they knowingly put it there to f*ck with people.

Possibly. Could also be a test amp or prototype. Maybe he was helping them tune an internal gain setting on the TC-50 before it released and they gave him one to find the sweet spot on a knob that would eventually become a fixed resistor. (same as the Mark V has the Volume knob on the lead channel fixed, at 7.5, or the JP-2C as 4 fixed values to choose between). Being a prototype/test amp would explain why it's larger than usual (more room to work inside) and have exctra knobs for things that aren't final. Then perhaps he kept it because he know it could make sounds no stock amp ever would.

Or I present Theory E: It's just the Volume knob(input gain), like older Mark series amps had, for adjusting both gain controls like you could on a IIC+-IV.



If you looked at the video or the picture you would see that it had a graphic EQ on the right side of the amp and what would be the two high gain channels are separated by that nob. It could potentially be a jazz chorus 120 copy on the clean channel and that's what that would adjust. I would highly recommend looking at the picture and you will see most of what i was talking about. Mesa have done a lot of crazy and innovative things in their life time, so the blending idea makes me interested a little. You never know what mesa will do because of how James blends his amps. Would be pretty insane if that was the case but i still think it would be a chorus more than anything.

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Marshall 1960 full stack, 2 Mesa vertical 2x12, 1 Mesa thiele with EVM 12l black label.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:53 am 
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Mark III

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The Jazz Chorus is a Solid state amp design owned by Roland, it would be even more impractical to cram into tube head than a Rectifier channel (at least those can run off the same transformers, power amps, etc). Not to mention that Mesa and Roland would have to reach an agreement to even allow something like that to happen. And since half of James's live tone is Triaxis Clean anyway, I think a Mesa Clean channel in a signature James amp would still be fine. Then blending that with a JC-120 can remain an exercise for the customer.

And as mentioned, the Graphic EQ alone isn't enough to really do what they did on MoP, Justice, or the Black Album. But if replicating those tones was a feature customers wanted on a James sig amp then adding a prebuilt secondary Parametric EQ would be the way to build that in. However, since James doesn't use those sounds anymore and ultimately a signature amp would also be something they'd want him to use and like himself that secondary parametric probably wouldn't be a priority for him.

I still think reintroducing that volume knob could be the most practical. It's a tone shaping tool that was on the II, III, and IV models but lost on the V, and reverted to a switch with two options on the JP-2C.

The blending could be possible, but aside from the Quad happening to be able to be glitched into a mode where both operate I've not heard of it done before. And the Quad needed 8 tubes just for the preamp section to work. It would be a large and expensive amp if they went that way.

As for the size, if it's not just a prototyping shell designed to be easier to work with then maybe it's a 150w Coliseum version :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Mark II

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IronSean wrote:
The Jazz Chorus is a Solid state amp design owned by Roland, it would be even more impractical to cram into tube head than a Rectifier channel (at least those can run off the same transformers, power amps, etc). Not to mention that Mesa and Roland would have to reach an agreement to even allow something like that to happen. And since half of James's live tone is Triaxis Clean anyway, I think a Mesa Clean channel in a signature James amp would still be fine. Then blending that with a JC-120 can remain an exercise for the customer.

And as mentioned, the Graphic EQ alone isn't enough to really do what they did on MoP, Justice, or the Black Album. But if replicating those tones was a feature customers wanted on a James sig amp then adding a prebuilt secondary Parametric EQ would be the way to build that in. However, since James doesn't use those sounds anymore and ultimately a signature amp would also be something they'd want him to use and like himself that secondary parametric probably wouldn't be a priority for him.

I still think reintroducing that volume knob could be the most practical. It's a tone shaping tool that was on the II, III, and IV models but lost on the V, and reverted to a switch with two options on the JP-2C.

The blending could be possible, but aside from the Quad happening to be able to be glitched into a mode where both operate I've not heard of it done before. And the Quad needed 8 tubes just for the preamp section to work. It would be a large and expensive amp if they went that way.

As for the size, if it's not just a prototyping shell designed to be easier to work with then maybe it's a 150w Coliseum version :twisted:
\


Yeah that all makes sense. The volume knob would be a solid addition but damn if it was a coliseum version..... sh!t. or even a mark based amp with tube rectification and extra tubes for the clean headroom and seperate rectifier channell :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

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Marshall 1960 full stack, 2 Mesa vertical 2x12, 1 Mesa thiele with EVM 12l black label.
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Schecter Hellraiser
1984 Gibson Explorer


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:14 pm 
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IronSean wrote:
The Jazz Chorus is a Solid state amp design owned by Roland, it would be even more impractical to cram into tube head than a Rectifier channel (at least those can run off the same transformers, power amps, etc). Not to mention that Mesa and Roland would have to reach an agreement to even allow something like that to happen. And since half of James's live tone is Triaxis Clean anyway, I think a Mesa Clean channel in a signature James amp would still be fine. Then blending that with a JC-120 can remain an exercise for the customer.


You're thinking too deep. I'm talking just the chorus effect, not the whole JC-120. I also wasn't being entirely serious... just wanted to stimulate people thinking.

Quote:
I still think reintroducing that volume knob could be the most practical. It's a tone shaping tool that was on the II, III, and IV models but lost on the V, and reverted to a switch with two options on the JP-2C.


I think the idea that it's there to dial in the preset that will eventually become a fixed resistor makes a lot of sense.

Quote:
The blending could be possible, but aside from the Quad happening to be able to be glitched into a mode where both operate I've not heard of it done before. And the Quad needed 8 tubes just for the preamp section to work. It would be a large and expensive amp if they went that way.


Electra Dyne has 7x 12AX7s and two separate preamps in it. They've been going down this path since the Lone Star.

FWIW - I doubt it's two channels that blend. This one was another one I wasn't being entirely serious about as I don't see it producing optimal results without a separate power amp and cab.

Anyway... I'm inclined to think it's either a volume (gain) knob or a scoop control.

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Ignore the hype and trust your ears. Play more, buy less = better tone.

|| McCarty | Les Paul | Custom 24 ||
|| Cantrell Wah | Rotovibe | Phase 90 | Grid Slammer ||
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|| Jazz Bass | Bass Strategy | PH410 ||


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:35 am 
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Mark III

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Well in that case he doesn't even use the JC-120 Chorus circuit, he uses a Boss CH-1 and/or TC Electronic rack effects. That'd certainly be easier to add in, if Mesa were willing to put some digital effects in an amp :P

If they were going to try and blend Mark and Recto tones, I'm curious what it would actually take:
Mark Lead Channel is 5 triodes just for the tone (before effects loop, Reverb, phase inverter). - 2.5 tubes
Recto Orange/Red is the same, 5 triodes for the main sound. - 2.5 tubes
Reverb, Effects Loop, Phase Inverter, - 3 Tubes.

So I guess we're only at 8.

Though I think I'm with you on it not being am optimal plan. With a separate power amp and cab you get more distinction, and you also get the ability to play with mic placement to counteract any phasing issues, etc.

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