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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:07 am 
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Mark III
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In another thread, Bandit, you posted a link to some NOS Chinese tubes at Doug's tubes. Are those the same as the Beijing tubes you are now referring to? If not, would you mind sharing a correct link? I got 2 of the NOS tubes you mentioned previously. Since I am still struggling with my V, I am open to try just about anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Triple Recto

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jnoel64 wrote:
In another thread, Bandit, you posted a link to some NOS Chinese tubes at Doug's tubes. Are those the same as the Beijing tubes you are now referring to? If not, would you mind sharing a correct link? I got 2 of the NOS tubes you mentioned previously. Since I am still struggling with my V, I am open to try just about anything.


Yes, those are the tubes. Beijing is the province in China where the tubes were manufactured. No pun intended but I think the Chinese tubes all look alike. They are also the same tubes that Mesa used back in 1980-1990. I held on to about 10 used tubes and found those to work well in the Mark V. The Beijing tubes sound identical to the old stock Mesa tubes as they are the same. I have them in V1,3, 5, 6, and 7. V2 is a Mullard CV4004 and V4 is a Jan/Phillips 12AT7. Doug said they test high grade and should not be used in V1, (what?) not having any issues with using one in V1 position. However, if you have a first gen Mark V before the tone stack fix (sometime in 2010 they made the change). A Mullard RI 12AX7 long plate may held as it has some good high frequency roll off. I have used many of those in the Mark to curb the ice. The Beijing tube did a better job. I love every voice on all 3 channels. I used to find the Edge mode to be the most annoying tone ever created and now it sounds usable.

here is the link again.
http://www.dougstubes.com/nos-chinese-1 ... -90-s.html

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 9:07 am
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I found a vintage 4x12. It has MC-90's in the open top and VS-12's in the closed bottom. It actually sounds really good (even after cleaning the speaker cones with a damp rag). It's sounds like a bigger version of a combo amp. I still want to load it with the Redbacks but I just saw the 2018 Gibson Explorer in antique natural. The Redbacks might have to wait.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:39 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
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I did take it out of the Mark V combo a while ago but it is back in..... The speaker does sound better with some break in time. I had used it as an extension cab for a while which helped.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:59 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
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Location: North Carolina
Keep in mind, I have swapped the speaker in the Mark V combo so many times I can do it in my sleep. I was starting to dislike the tone of the EV in the combo. Those sound great in a closed back cab though. For an open back combo, I would say the tone of the Redback is similar to the Mesa Vetical 212 cab once the speaker is broken in. It will not sound amazing out of the box as it does take some break-in time to soften up the spider and webbing materials. Best of all I cannot get any flub out of this speaker and it excels at higher volume levels. Even the JP-2C could not break it up. Why it fits the Mark V is it does cut back on some of the top end harshness, but sounds good if you get that tamed with a 12AT7 in V4. It will take a few months of use for the treble to be as strong as a V30 and the mids will require more time before they peak. I am now getting a good balance from low to high that it sounds very pleasing. Actually the tone is similar to the Crème 90W alnico but not as much of a vintage tone (similar in some respects). Clean channel, awesome!! Best I ever heard yet as I mentioned a few times. Crunch channel sound more classic rock and CH3 just roars. Now I am happy with the Mark V combo but did take some patience in breaking in the speaker.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:34 pm 
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I bought another Redback and pulled the one out of my DRG and installed them in the top open half of the 4x12. Sounds great! Very balanced with my HSS Strat, huge with my Les Paul. I ordered another 2 today to put in the closed bottom half. I thought about putting 2 EV's in the 4x12 but I want to be able to carry it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:20 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
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Location: North Carolina
EV is not much heavier than the V30. I can still pick up the OS Recto 412 loaded with EV speakers, although I would rather not want to pick it up off of the floor for any extended period of time (same would apply to the stock OS Recto 412). I have a traditional sized Egnator cab and that is very light. I really like the Red back in the Mark V combo! It is a cry above the MC90 and I have yet to experience cone distortion or coil slap at elevated volumes with the Red back. It does color the tone a bit but not as dramatic as the Celestion Crème 90W Alnico (still that was an awesome speaker especially on CH3 prior to the "saturation mod" thread of events.). I have gone back to the EVM12L black label for a short while and found it a bit sterile. I do not remember the Black Shadow EVM speaker to have that effect that was in the Mark III. Like the EV speaker, the Red back Celestion can be pushed very hard and it roars. I even tried to break it with the JP-2C and that sounded awesome too. The Red back is one speaker that does take considerable amount of break in to soften it up so from the start in a Combo you may not like it at first. I ran the speaker in a 1x12 extension cab along with what ever speaker I decided to stuff into the Mark V combo. (started with the Crème 90W but that was on the way out due to damage caused by running the JP-2C though it, it did not take long for the speaker to sound like you were playing though a tunnel so I would assume there are cracks in the varnish of the voice coil, never sounded scratchy or typical of a speaker with a damaged voice coil, it just got weaker once it warmed up, bummer).

The Organic Timbre Rhapsody G12F should be arriving today. It is an EV clone but with a different voice with some coloring in the sound spectrum. I am looking forward to trying it out and see what works for me. Since I modified the Mark V combo shell for front mounting the EV speaker it should just drop in (front mounting is preferred for sake of preamp tube access, rear mounted required chassis removal to get to the preamp tubes, even the Red back has made preamp tube a bit of a challenge but is manageable. I think I hear a speaker shoot out coming soon. Definitely will have to compare it to the MC90, Red back, EVM12L but I doubt the Celestion 90W crème will make it in the mix. If I can get closer to the Vertical 212 tone with a single speaker in an open back enclosure I would be happy, I do not mind having something different either. So far the Red back has opened up its voice considerably I almost do not want to remove it. I would recommend the Red back but with reservation on break in time as it was not an instant gem like the Celestion Creame 90W alnioco right out of the box except on the clean channel. Even after the break in, it still sounds the best I have heard yet on the clean channel (with an acoustic bridge pickup of the piezo variety it sounds even better). High gain channels is where the tone suffered the most right out of the box but once broken in it sounds amazing. Also will help curb the upper harmonics and brittleness of a very bright amp. Note that the speaker does get brighter and the mids will be more apparent after break in. If the OTR wins me over I may run with that for a while. The Red back is a keeper so it is something good to fall back on.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:10 am 
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Mark III
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I am very eager to hear your review of the Organic Timbre. I found those a while back and have had my eye on one.

I moved my Red Back to a deeper 1x12 cab and rear mounted it. I actually loved its tone fresh from the box, and am looking forward to hearing it in the deeper cab. It's still not completely broken in, so if it keeps getting better, I will be thrilled.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
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There is one characteristic I took notice to recently with the Red back on a gain channel. At lower volume levels the bass seems to get a bit flubby or fartish. Perhaps a hit of breakup in the response of the cone. This is bedroom level but may be related to the Mark V characteristic on CH2 and CH3. CH2 is more prone to this. However, raise the bar on the master volume (using the FX loop active mode) it goes away. The louder you drive the speaker the better it sounds. This is also similar to the EV at reduced volume but has a different characteristic to it. Perhaps the 2.5 inch VC is the reason. I have compared the same signal level with the Vertical 212 and no flub, fart or odd low volume issue. That cab just sounds great at any volume level.

Will see what happens once I get into recording the different speakers and will have to explore the low volume level response too. (I will keep the recording to the optimal so you get a better idea how it sounds at moderate levels). Always hard to find a single speaker that can handle the full power from a 90W+(includes the peak power 110Wrms from the Mark V) amplifier. For certain if Mesa offered a JP-2C 1x12 combo the Red back would work out fine (I really pushed it hard with the JP to see if I could get break up, nope :P ) Still have not touched the OTR speaker yet (other than opening the box to take a peak inside).

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:17 pm 
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I installed the Redbacks in the closed bottom half a couple of days ago. I don't know what the cab weighs with the Redbacks but it's managable. The Mark 5 25 and Mini Rec sound really good thru it. If I didn't own a c+ I could live with just the Mark 5 25 on the crunch channel alone. The Mini Rec clean channel, which is one of my favorites, is really nice. Makes me wonder what a Redback would sound like in a Rectoverb 25. I installed one of the Mesa VS-12 speakers I took out of the 4x12 in a Mojotone Lite 1x12 that I use with my Mark 5 25 and Mini Rec. I was suprised at how good it sounds. No ice pick and no fizz.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:47 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
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I started recording with the Red back so I can compare the OTR (Organic Timbre Rhapsody speaker). for some reason the Red does not record well. What I have to do is dial in a reference cabinet, say the Mesa Vertical 212 to dial in the EQ for each mic. When I can get a good representation of that on playback I will complete the task for the other speakers. I am still learning how to set up the recording gear, where to place mics and such. Sure the V30 has that tone tunnel or beaming effect at the center of the speaker. My goal is to get a realistic sound from a known cabinet and then go from there. Frist attempt recording the Red sounded like a thick blanket was over the amp. I will figure this out....

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:28 am 
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Triple Recto

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Location: North Carolina
I will get the recording posted as I need to finish up on writing the review so I can post it. I now have the OTR speaker in stalled, Not bad out of box but will need some break in time before I can decide if it is a keeper. The Redback on the other hand will be going back into the Mark V as that one is so much fun to play though. Even though it has a bit of vintage voice to it, it just responds extremely well to my playing, improved pick attack and harmonics are incredible. Also it will take abuse of more power if you have it. Awesome speaker once broken in.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:09 am 
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Triple Recto

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I posted in another thread three of the 2.5 inch speakers recorded using each mounted in a Mark V combo. Redback vs EV vs Organic Timbre

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74036

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
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Location: North Carolina
This is a fun speaker to use but at the moment it will be in storage as the Organic Timbre took over and that would be difficult to remove from the Mark V combo, sure I could take it out and did think about it... but the more I play though that OTR the more I love it. For the moment the Red back is back in its box waiting for another opportunity to come along.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:41 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:38 am
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Location: Western Colorado
Posting to subscribe. I've been thinking of a 1x12 combo that can take my Mark heads under power.

I've never met a combo tone I like, so it'd likely be a closed back cab, possibly Thiele or ported front to get something with some internal volume. I'd like to hear one in that widebody front ported cab.


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