The Boogie Board

Discussion Forum for Mesa Boogie Products
It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:55 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:07 am 
Offline
Bottle Rocket

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:20 am
Posts: 8
Hello everyone!!

I'm a 42 year old guitarist playing mostly rock/metal/punky/garage/crossover type stuff. Here's the band I play lead guitar in.

http://dogsflesh.co.uk/

https://soundcloud.com/dogsflesh

For years and years I've been plugging my les paul custom into the front of a marshall jcm800 with a tube screamer in front. Works ok, but I've always thought there's something better out there for me.

Basically the core tone is ok, but nowt spectacular, i'm lucky if I can turn it up past 2, its noisy, and there's nowhere to go for a boost for solos.
I think that I gravitate towards the "classic" sounds and simple amps, but they don't really have the features that a modern player needs.Also I fancy a change.
The other guitarist in my band has a peavey 5150 , so I need to be able to have a solo boost to ghet over that, although I think the 2 different sounds do sit well in a mix.

So I'm after something that has a nice tight punchy overdrive sound (I don't need masses of gain, but a hot rodded jcm800 gives you an idea how much ) , sounds good without pedals, has decent sustain, and has a solo boost function.

So I tried a few amps I'd seen locally.

Marshall jvm . Horrible.

Mesa rectifier solo 50. Amazing!! Loved it. Plenty of useful features, but not so many that I got lost, and easy to use. Reassuringly good quality, and single notes really sang, even in the shop. It had the solo boost feature that I needed, and felt great to play.

The only thing is I found it quite smooth and bottom heavy, and couldn't really dial any raunch and upper mid punch. Is this what these amps are like or was it just the cab I was using??

I also tried a Mesa Stiletto Deuce. Loved it. But I gather these amps don't seem to have the reputation that the rectos have.

So I also wondered about the mini recto. Is that loud enough to use in an unmic'd ? Do the 2 channels give the option of a solo boost?? Would it cut through over a peavey 5150??

Any advice and guidance you guys can give will be greatly appreciated!!! I'm reallu impressed with Mesa, but I welcome advice from people who have more experience than me with these amps.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:48 am 
Offline
Mark III
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:00 am
Posts: 378
Location: Melbourne, Australia
hi riffpowers... Welcome.

Hmmm.... a couple of interesting points you make about the recto amp.

From most peoples experience, the recto amps aren't considered 'quite smooth' and 'single notes sing', however, for how you play and what you need it for it may be fine for you.

As for the type of distortion (Recto vs Marshall) well, they do sound different. The Recto has (the best I can describe it) a rather 'grainy/somewhat coarse' distortion compared to a smoother distortion of a Marshall. Best analogy I can give is this: Throw large pebbles in a cement mixer and it'll sound coarse/rough. Throw in sand instead and it sounds smooth and flowing. Extreme sound examples but I think you get the idea.

Usually, to get a smoother more fluid tone/sound out of the recto, many players push the front end of their amps with a boost pedal, typically a TS9 type pedal with volume maxed, tone where you like it and drive at zero or near zero on the pedal.

I had a Rectoverb Series 2 combo (great amp but a little 'one dimensional' in the cleans, otherwise a very good amp) but now own a Roadster head with a 2x12 cab. I find the recto amps need a push and a shove in the front end. I also use a tiny amount of compression, too.

I also EQ out front and in the loop. This basically shapes my input tone and shapes the overall output tone. It's interesting what you can fix and also stuff up with EQ pedals. This can help with the bottom end, the mid range and anything in-between.

For a bit of crunch / mid-punch, the EQ out front can be setup in a reasonably steep reverse-V. The mid-frequencies will distort first compared with the low and top end. To balance this tone, the EQ in the loop gets put to use by having the EQ shape in the opposite direction (give or take what sound you want). Pretty interesting way of doing things, right?

As for your solo boost, the easiest thing you can do is shove an EQ in the loop, reverse-V shape, output level above unity and kick it in for a solo. Instant volume boost in the mids to cut through (but the distortion / drive level won't change); all you're doing is increasing the volume of the current volume with a tone change.

As for the Stilleto Duece, this is Mesa's take on a hot rodded Marshall. There are two Series amps, so if your interested, look for a Series 2. I've only played one in-store so I can't comment too much but from what I hear on youtube I can see that this amp can sound killer when EQ'd properly (sometimes youtube is so-so)

For the mini Recto.... I can't say if it's loud enough.

Keep in mind that these 100W recto amps sound best / better turned up, so low volume playing *may* be a problem for you. For me, low volume affects the distortion 'characteristic' the most, rather than the tone of which I can 'fix' to a degree. The distortion can sound fuzzy, grainy, not smooth, sounds like 'bees' and whatever adjective you want to use. In cases like this, I've got plenty of drive pedals that I can use, sometimes stacking them, to overcome this issue (I'm happy to 'replace' a sound with a 'different' sound if I have to)

I suggest to go play more recto amps and take a good listen to their characteristic drive. Even better if you can do a direct A/B with a Marshall and Stiletto. Try and zone in on the distortion characteristic, not so much the tone. Listen to the low end, top end, as well as the mid range distortion characteristic(keep in mind the cement mixer analogy I used earlier).

Best advice I can give: Amps always sound 'fantastic' when you first hear them because it's new, exciting, you're rushed, you feel adrenaline and just general "man that sounds great!" feeling then and there. Let the excitement settle a bit and take a good listen with 4~5 separate trips and be subjective. As you know, people have bought amps and then 'regretted' the purchase because it wasn't what they thought it was.

Take your time, unless it's something urgent. Patience is always good for large purchases.

By the way, I'm not a fanboy of anything. I own a Marshall JCM800 100W combo (first issue), Peavey JSX head, Carvin, Rocktron, Tech 21 and Mesa preamps. If it sounds good and does what you need it to do, regardless of brand, then it's a good piece of gear.

Good luck.

-B

_________________
Gotta love tubes!
Image

If you're interested in the chicken head knob replacement on my Roadster amp, go here:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=69901&p=476098#p476098


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:14 am 
Offline
Bottle Rocket

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:20 am
Posts: 8
Thanks for the reply!!

I think I need to try the rectifier again.

How would I be able to identify the stage 1 form the stage 2 stiletto??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:46 pm 
Offline
Donating Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:30 pm
Posts: 2533
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
+1000 on Blak's response.

I will add that in general terms, Mesa tends to have more girth or grunt (bigger lows) and a low-mid emphasis. Rectos are famous for this. Marshall is more about high mid emphasis. The rectos are best paired with a recto cab, which will give VERY tight lows and really tune the whole tone.

No matter what you do, Mesa will tend to be softer in the highs than a Marshall, which for many is a good thing. However, nothing stops you from turning up the treble.

One thing to remember with Mesa is this: Forget everything you know about tone controls. Mesa has their own thing going on there, so start with everything at noon and then go from there. You would NEVER set Mesa tone controls anything like a Marshall. Probably. In particular, the tone controls are interactive. If you want more bass, you have to turn down the treble. If you want more treble, you have to turn down the bass. For someone coming from a Marshall background, treat Mesa Mid like you would Marshall bass, and Treble like you would mid. Mesa's bass knob is like a sub-bass on a Marshall, but also limits the effectiveness of the treble control.

For the Mini Rec, I think you would find it sounds GREAT, but I'm not sure if it would really be loud enough in your band. Rectos need to be played loud, and the MR can get quite loud. It loses low-end at high volume, as that is where all the power is consumed. So it may sound a lot more like your Marshall. But I would recommend you look at the 50W Single rec again. It has a similar voicing to the MR and a few more tricks up its sleeve. The MR doesn't have a solo boost, for example.

_________________
JP-2C WICKER, Baby!
Mini Rectifier blue LED
2x Recto 2x12 Horizontal
2x Recto 2x12 Vertical


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:42 pm 
Offline
Bottle Rocket

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:20 am
Posts: 8
elvis wrote:
+1000 on Blak's response.

I will add that in general terms, Mesa tends to have more girth or grunt (bigger lows) and a low-mid emphasis. Rectos are famous for this. Marshall is more about high mid emphasis. The rectos are best paired with a recto cab, which will give VERY tight lows and really tune the whole tone.

No matter what you do, Mesa will tend to be softer in the highs than a Marshall, which for many is a good thing. However, nothing stops you from turning up the treble.

One thing to remember with Mesa is this: Forget everything you know about tone controls. Mesa has their own thing going on there, so start with everything at noon and then go from there. You would NEVER set Mesa tone controls anything like a Marshall. Probably. In particular, the tone controls are interactive. If you want more bass, you have to turn down the treble. If you want more treble, you have to turn down the bass. For someone coming from a Marshall background, treat Mesa Mid like you would Marshall bass, and Treble like you would mid. Mesa's bass knob is like a sub-bass on a Marshall, but also limits the effectiveness of the treble control.

For the Mini Rec, I think you would find it sounds GREAT, but I'm not sure if it would really be loud enough in your band. Rectos need to be played loud, and the MR can get quite loud. It loses low-end at high volume, as that is where all the power is consumed. So it may sound a lot more like your Marshall. But I would recommend you look at the 50W Single rec again. It has a similar voicing to the MR and a few more tricks up its sleeve. The MR doesn't have a solo boost, for example.


Thanks for the info !
I think I need to play the rectifier solo 50 again , and try the eq like you suggested .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:23 pm 
Offline
Donating Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:30 pm
Posts: 2533
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
No worries!

And turn it up. Rectos are a completely different beast at proper volume. They really choke down at low volume. ScreamingDaisy has given a lot of advice in that vein.

_________________
JP-2C WICKER, Baby!
Mini Rectifier blue LED
2x Recto 2x12 Horizontal
2x Recto 2x12 Vertical


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:35 am 
Offline
Mark III
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:00 am
Posts: 378
Location: Melbourne, Australia
riffpowers wrote:
Thanks for the reply!!

I think I need to try the rectifier again.

How would I be able to identify the stage 1 form the stage 2 stiletto??


For the Stiletto I'm not 100% sure what the differences are. Maybe below links can help:
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68518

viewtopic.php?t=13725&highlight=stiletto+thread


There's also two series of the Rectoverb 50 combo (I think the head version also has two series). Off the top of my head the difference is that is can take EL34's or 6L6's and has an extra mode on the drive channel.

Here's a bit of a write up I did answering somebody's question (about halfway down the page) about the Rectoverb 50 combo amp:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58551


Yes, the EQ on the recto amps...... as elvis said, they behave very differently to Marshall's. Best you close your eyes and adjust with your ears (this is the general advice on this forum!) Who would've ever thought turning up the treble would reduce the bass? Well, that's Mesa for you. Also, if you turn up the gain (high / high-ish), reduce the bass from where you started.

-B

_________________
Gotta love tubes!
Image

If you're interested in the chicken head knob replacement on my Roadster amp, go here:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=69901&p=476098#p476098


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:00 pm 
Offline
Mark III

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:38 am
Posts: 198
Location: Western Colorado
One thought that popped up- if you think you want a Recto, but with a boost, and with a GEQ, and with a little compression, then what you really want is a Mark series amp. This vid tells you what you need to know.
https://youtu.be/PwN-0rHBO_k

The 25 waters sound killer, and can get loud, but they don't have the bottom end whump that you'll get with a full power head.

_________________
My Half Ass Tone Comparos


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group