Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

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elvis
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Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by elvis » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:48 pm

Hi Guys,

I have been running an experiment. I recorded guitars directly into my Apogee Duet 2 into Garage Band. I then ran the output at guitar-level into the inputs to all my amps. I recorded with/without delay and reverb, and with some different amp channels and settings.

Note that I have all the amps dialed to what I like, but it's a good way to get some apples-apples comparisons. I used a PRS SC245 with Cold Sweats and 0.010s in E-standard for rock and a PRS Tremonti with 0.011s in Drop Db for metal.

Mics are Rode NT1A and Shure SM57 panned hard left and right, both at the edge of the dust cover on a Mesa Recto vertical 2x12 with V30. Speaker and mics and levels and everything are identical (to the best of my ability) for all amps.

Enjoy!

https://soundcloud.com/user-436015192/s ... -11-5-2016
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by SamuelJ86 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:42 pm

I think I want a shiva now. That thing sounded pissed off and awesome. The archon sounded good, it has 6l6s, right? Hell, they all sound good! Each one has their own personality. Enjoyed that, thanks elvis!
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by elvis » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:40 pm

Thanks!

Yes, the Archon has 6L6, as does everything except the MR (EL84) and Shiva (KT88).
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by bandit2013 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:47 am

I had to take a listen again. I like the sound of the Dyne the best for the opening passage. It seems to sound warmer than the rest or closer to what I think it should sound like.

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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by elvis » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:53 pm

It's hard not to love the Dyne, for sure.

I am going to rerun this with more distance to the mics. The sound is OK, and at least a fair comparison, but I don't feel I really captured the character of these amps accurately. They all sound too brittle and not warm enough as compared to what I hear in the room. The MR really suffered. It really does sound bigger than came out in the recordings.
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by bandit2013 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:54 pm

Elvis,
Were you attenuating in order to use the NT1A that close to the speaker cab? I cannot even get my mic in the room without it overdriving the input of my recorder. Same mic too. Excellent for acoustic guitar but speaker I found that not to be the case. I guess there is a reason I got a sennheiser e609, have not given a trial with it yet but hope it works out better than the SM57. I would love to get the Shure KSM313/NE but I can find something else for that cost (almost cost as much as the Archon). :shock:

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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by elvis » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:04 pm

I had to set the input level on the Duet down a little, but I didn't have to pad the mic before the input. Seems like the Duet input range was enough for the full mic signal.

I think it would have been too hot at the input of my Mackie mixer. I keep a 20dB pad around for that.

What piece of gear are you plugging your mic into?
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by bandit2013 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:59 pm

Tascam DP-32SD. I was clipping the input when trying to use the mic just outside of the door of the small room that my gear was in but I was playing quite loud with only -3dB attenuation when recording the Roadster. Not very much in recording gear at the moment but the Tascam does a great job even for mix down and mastering. If and when I get an acoustic drum kit, will need a mixer for that if I rig it with mics and still want to capture bass and two guitars at once.

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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by elvis » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:17 pm

That Tascam is a nice piece of gear. I'm surprised you were clipping it. Then again, you run the JP-2C master at 1:00...
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by bandit2013 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:23 pm

I have not tried to record the JP-2C with the NTR-1 yet except for a recent test run with a Sennheiser e609. Frist test recording was with a Shure SM57. I will have to give it a try with the NTR-1 since it has a lower frequency response. Every time I have used the NTR-1 was with the Dynamic compression on the input (did not take long to realize that I do not need to make the input that sensitive.) I basically got that for recording Acoustic guitar since the dynamic mics were not of any help. Sooner or later (probably later) I will get a ribbon mic but they are quite expensive. Heck, for just under $500 bucks, I get the full package. Sure no add-ins or plug-ins. If your DAW works with wave files, you can import everything off of the SD Card and work on it on the PC vs the Tascam. Editing would be much easier that way. So far I have been able to manage without using a DAW. Best thing about the Tascam, I can take it almost anywhere and record up to 8 signals at once. Since I always wanted to learn the drums, why not just do it, it is good exercise too. Soon I will move on to an acoustic drum set. I am getting older and may as well get the toys now while I can still use them. I will probably keep the Roland TD-15KV as I did not like the newer model that came out recently.

I keep the JP about 11o'c (or lower) most of the time, may even hit noon. At 1 o'oclock it gets quite toasty but sounds great (adjust the treble and 6.6k slider as needed along with a bit of presence. Much more tolerable with the 212 than the 412 as that is very loud. JP sounds interesting with the gain dropped and volume pushed and vice versa. Still exploring the amp, but will probably start recording during the Holidays. Trick with attenuator or just with mic's as I noticed the mids seem to dominate with this amp as it does with the Roadster. I have done more recordings with the Roadster but have only posted a limited number in soundcloud. I do not mind post processing if I can get the tone to where it was live. I was surprised with the Sennheiser as it was much closer to the real deal than the SM57. Have no complaints with the NTR-1 for accuracy but sensitivity may be something to be concerned with as the SPL rating is lower than that of the SM57 or other dynamic mics. I will definitely have to look into the PADs. I had no clue there were inline attenuators for microphones. I have use them with oscilloscopes before. Cool. Thanks for the tip.

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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by elvis » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:33 pm

The multi-channel capability of the DAW is really cool, but I went for simple. Apogee Duet 2 and my mac. Works great for what I am doing.

I am definitely running my amps WAY quieter than you. Even then, I really hear the proximity effect when I compare mics 2" away vs. 2' away. I do want to try louder, but I don't want to shatter my mic element. I am shopping for a ribbon, but they are $$$$. Still, I am pretty close to just getting a Royer 121 and calling it a day. That plus my SM57 would be as much mic as I'll ever need.
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by synthetic » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:42 pm

Sounds great but all the tracks are out of phase. Flip the phase on one track (there's an on-screen button called "Phase" on the left side of the mixer page, circle with a line through it. Your tracks will sound much bigger.

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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by bandit2013 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:24 am

Recently got a multitrack mixer (soundcraft signature 22MTK) just for the purpose or recording acoustic drum set. Before the mixer I had ordered a few mic bundles to mic the drum set. Tried it with the Tascam DP-32SD and it was okay. The preamps in the Tascam are not bad but the soundcraft Ghost preamps are amazing. The british type 4 band EQ also did what I was hoping it to do. The mixer may be analog but it is more of a hybrid. There has to be one or two DAC's in this system as it has the ability to send all inputs though USB as individual tracks vs a mix-down of the master stereo pair. If I had a DAW I could make full use of it with a complete band. I have not connected the Tascam to the Soundcraft mixer yet. I was overjoyed what I was hearing though the headphones last night while playing the drums. Will have to do a session with the recorder hooked up and record something. Now for the next step, record some guitar and bass. Not sure why I was holding back but I am glad I got the mixer. The spec indicated 24 out, 22 in though USB. Unfortunate that I cannot record with the USB port on the TASCAM :cry: At least I can channel two stereo pairs (groups) as well as the master pair to the Tascam and reserve other channels for the other instruments without the need for a PC or MAC. I can't wait to get started and see if I can hear the difference with the JP-2C and my other amps. Note that many of the mics I have for the Drums can be used on amps too. Audix DP7 kit with the trio of D2's. I do have my Rode NT1 set about 8 feet away from the drums to capture the room, I should have used one of the channels with the dB limter (PAD) on it as the NT1 is very sensitive. It would not take that much effort to rearrange all the mics as the mixer was easier than I thought it would be.

Time to explore what I can do with this new gear. :P

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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by elvis » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:44 pm

synthetic wrote:Sounds great but all the tracks are out of phase. Flip the phase on one track (there's an on-screen button called "Phase" on the left side of the mixer page, circle with a line through it. Your tracks will sound much bigger.
You nailed it! Not sure how I missed that!
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Re: Multiple Amp Tone Comparison SOUND CLIPS

Post by afu » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:05 pm

Recto Vintage, Shiva, and the new settings JP-2C were favorites, but all were cool, except Recto Modern.

Kinda wish I could afford a Shiva and run stereo with DR.
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