Which pairs best for Mark V:25? 50:50 or 2:50 power amp?

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pratamaputra

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Hey Guys..

I currently have a Mark V:25 with a matching Recto 2x12 Vertical Slant Cab but I am having some issue that my gain isn't high enough! Not enough punch to my liking.

I tend to want my sound like Mark Morton but I don't think I have the gain, and I don't want to use a pedal to add that missing gain.

I'm thinking to add some power amp, a 50:50 or a 2:50. Which one is the best?

https://soundcloud.com/pratamaputra/mesa-boogie-mark-v25-test

Thanks!

PS: I would like to upload my cover recording but Soundcloud rejected my uploads. If you guys have any ideas on how to upload my soundbites please do share so you can have a hear of what I'm talking about.
 
pratamaputra said:
Hey Guys..

I currently have a Mark V:25 with a matching Recto 2x12 Vertical Slant Cab but I am having some issue that my gain isn't high enough! Not enough punch to my liking.

I tend to want my sound like Mark Morton but I don't think I have the gain, and I don't want to use a pedal to add that missing gain.

I'm thinking to add some power amp, a 50:50 or a 2:50. Which one is the best?

https://soundcloud.com/pratamaputra/mesa-boogie-mark-v25-test

Thanks!

PS: I would like to upload my cover recording but Soundcloud rejected my uploads. If you guys have any ideas on how to upload my soundbites please do share so you can have a hear of what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
If the amps you are referring to are both Mesa amps (the newer 2:50 is pretty much the same amp inside as the older 50:50) they are both Class AB poweramps.

Have you tried a 4X12 cabinet?

You keep mentioning that you don't think you have enough gain...... can you please expand on this a bit?

When we speak of "gain" in an amplifier, it is usually in regards to preamp signal gain, which will determine the amount of preamp overdrive (signal distortion).

Dom
 
domct203 said:
pratamaputra said:
Hey Guys..

I currently have a Mark V:25 with a matching Recto 2x12 Vertical Slant Cab but I am having some issue that my gain isn't high enough! Not enough punch to my liking.

I tend to want my sound like Mark Morton but I don't think I have the gain, and I don't want to use a pedal to add that missing gain.

I'm thinking to add some power amp, a 50:50 or a 2:50. Which one is the best?

https://soundcloud.com/pratamaputra/mesa-boogie-mark-v25-test

Thanks!

PS: I would like to upload my cover recording but Soundcloud rejected my uploads. If you guys have any ideas on how to upload my soundbites please do share so you can have a hear of what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
If the amps you are referring to are both Mesa amps (the newer 2:50 is pretty much the same amp inside as the older 50:50) they are both Class AB poweramps.

Have you tried a 4X12 cabinet?

You keep mentioning that you don't think you have enough gain...... can you please expand on this a bit?

When we speak of "gain" in an amplifier, it is usually in regards to preamp signal gain, which will determine the amount of preamp overdrive (signal distortion).

Dom
Click to expand...


Hey Dom.

What I know is that the 50:50 uses only 6L6s and the newer 2:50 uses only EL34s.

Need more of that beefy sound. I would like to give you a listen of my cover of Lamb Of God which probably best explains my problem.

On the preamp side, my gain knob is way above 12 o'clock, maybe around 2 o'clock. Presence knob at full, using the Mark IV mode. the pickups I used are already high gain (DiMarzio Breed and Duncan Designed).

Do you have an e-mail which maybe I can send you?

Thanks.
 
pratamaputra said:
Need more of that beefy sound.
Click to expand...
In terms of beefy-ness: 6L6 tubes > EL34 tubes >>> EL84 tubes. And 25 watts is definitely on the low side for beef, especially if you're only using a 2x12 cabinet.

On the other hand, buying a second power amp to use with that head seems like overkill - you might be better off selling the 5:25 and using that money + the money you would have spent on a 50:50 to just buy one more powerful head.
 
pratamaputra said:
Hey Dom.

What I know is that the 50:50 uses only 6L6s and the newer 2:50 uses only EL34s.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you got that info from...the 2:50 ships with 6L6's (although it can accommodate EL34's)

http://www.mesaboogie.com/amplifiers/electric/all-tube-stereo-power-amps/stereo-2fifty-power-amp/index.html
 
More wattage will not get more gain. Only more volume.
If a Mark V:25 isn't getting you enough gain with your settings in Mark IV mode then either something is not functioning properly or you need to take up the french horn or something other than a guitar. :lol:
 
ryjan said:
More wattage will not get more gain. Only more volume.
If a Mark V:25 isn't getting you enough gain with your settings in Mark IV mode then either something is not functioning properly or you need to take up the french horn or something other than a guitar. :lol:
Click to expand...

Oh well, sorry if my lack of knowledge disturbs you but I'm just trying get some inputs here on how to improve my sound with a minimum budget.

I know that my Mark V:25 comes with only 2 power tubes (EL84s), so I'm guessing that's where my problem lies. Was thinking of getting a power amp to boost more power. Is it a good way to go? I got an offer for a second hand 50:50 and 2:50 on a good price that's why I'm thinking to get them. To get a new amp is quite expensive in my country especially if I want to switch to the real Mark Vs.

Or should I just buy a 4x12 cab?
 
I's still not sure exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish. An additional power amp will make you louder. The Mark V:25 should have enough gain, saturation, and volume for any reasonable guitarist with plenty to spare.
Do you have any previous experience with tube amps? They can sound and feel very foreign if you have always used solid state.
 
pratamaputra said:
I know that my Mark V:25 comes with only 2 power tubes (EL84s), so I'm guessing that's where my problem lies. Was thinking of getting a power amp to boost more power. Is it a good way to go?
Click to expand...
No, because unless you also get a second cabinet you'll only be able to use your new power amp if you bypass the power section that your head already has. So you'd be paying for and carrying a nice 25 watt power section that you won't be using.
 
pratamaputra said:
Hey Guys..

I currently have a Mark V:25 with a matching Recto 2x12 Vertical Slant Cab but I am having some issue that my gain isn't high enough! Not enough punch to my liking.

I tend to want my sound like Mark Morton but I don't think I have the gain, and I don't want to use a pedal to add that missing gain.

...

Need more of that beefy sound. I would like to give you a listen of my cover of Lamb Of God which probably best explains my problem.

On the preamp side, my gain knob is way above 12 o'clock, maybe around 2 o'clock. Presence knob at full, using the Mark IV mode. the pickups I used are already high gain (DiMarzio Breed and Duncan Designed).
Click to expand...

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for. Unfortunately the language we have to describe audio is often insufficient. But I'll take a stab at it.

Mark Morton plays a Royal Atlantic. That amp, like the JCM800, has a ton of midrange harmonics that tend to fill up the sound to make it more cutting and thicker. That may be the beefyness you are looking for. In that case, I have found it difficult to get that with a Mark V or V:25. Mark IV mode with the mids up a bit may help. Also, adding 2200Hz with the EQ helps.

The next thing that is probably going on is that you have a ton of gain. Mark's tone is more likely lower gain with tons of volume. Adding gain gets sustain by squashing the signal at the front end. That sacrifices tone and dynamics, making the bass sound muddy and killing the presence. It's hard to EQ that without cutting low-end (making the guitar sound thin) and there's no way to fix the mids.

For any guitar amp, huge tone comes from lots of volume. You want to rattle the speakers and get compression from volume. That will also bring up your low-end and set your mids to cut through. Try gain at 12:00 and set the master as loud as you can stand.

I'm also not sure if you are using the GEQ or not, and how it might be set. I highly recommend watching John Petrucci's videos for setting up the Mark V. They are on Mesa's yt channel. Really enlightening.

After all that, you can tighten up the amp and add some midrange sparkle by driving with an OD808 or other TS pedal. There is a reason every pro does that. It adds something to the tone of the amp you can't get otherwise. Either set the drive to zero and the level all the way up as a clean boost to drive the front-end, or set drive to 10:30 and level to 1:30 to add just a bit of drive plus some sparkle.
 
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for. Unfortunately the language we have to describe audio is often insufficient. But I'll take a stab at it.

Mark Morton plays a Royal Atlantic. That amp, like the JCM800, has a ton of midrange harmonics that tend to fill up the sound to make it more cutting and thicker. That may be the beefyness you are looking for. In that case, I have found it difficult to get that with a Mark V or V:25. Mark IV mode with the mids up a bit may help. Also, adding 2200Hz with the EQ helps.

The next thing that is probably going on is that you have a ton of gain. Mark's tone is more likely lower gain with tons of volume. Adding gain gets sustain by squashing the signal at the front end. That sacrifices tone and dynamics, making the bass sound muddy and killing the presence. It's hard to EQ that without cutting low-end (making the guitar sound thin) and there's no way to fix the mids.

For any guitar amp, huge tone comes from lots of volume. You want to rattle the speakers and get compression from volume. That will also bring up your low-end and set your mids to cut through. Try gain at 12:00 and set the master as loud as you can stand.

I'm also not sure if you are using the GEQ or not, and how it might be set. I highly recommend watching John Petrucci's videos for setting up the Mark V. They are on Mesa's yt channel. Really enlightening.

After all that, you can tighten up the amp and add some midrange sparkle by driving with an OD808 or other TS pedal. There is a reason every pro does that. It adds something to the tone of the amp you can't get otherwise. Either set the drive to zero and the level all the way up as a clean boost to drive the front-end, or set drive to 10:30 and level to 1:30 to add just a bit of drive plus some sparkle.
Click to expand...

Hey you guys.

Really thank you for all this information. It helps a lot.

FYI, I use the GEQ a lot, and I set my GEQ almost the same as Mark's, with lots of mids into it. I even use the same pickups as Mark :D

I know that Mark Morton and LoG doesn't use any pedals for their sound, except maybe for solos and stuff, but I'm guessing it's because they have so much gain on their hands by using two amps for each player and having a 4x12 cabs to begin with. Me using a 25watt amps and 2x12 cab sure as hell won't get the same sound as they have.

After reading all of your responses and inputs, I think it's best for me (considering budget and needs) to acquire a 4x12cab and maybe some OD pedal to enhance my sound. Any inputs on what kind of OD pedal should I get?

If somewhere along the way I have the budget, I will definitely get the full size Mark Vs and probably a second hand Royal Atlantic (my country don't have this kind of amp, and I believe it's already discontinued).

Again, thanks guys for your help.
 
Fryette Power Station

If it is more gain you want (distortion), a new power amp (or a full size 90 watt Mark V) will not make any difference in the world. And this includes the power station.

If you are looking for additional low end and volume, Fryette Power Station may be best for what you are looking for. Plus it is only 21lbs

I have one and I highly recommend it
http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/

From a size perspective, it's like it was designed to fit perfectly under the V25
MarkV25PowerStationFront_zpssaojngat.jpg


MarkV25PowerStationSide_zpsuf5djuyp.jpg


Read up on it. It has a a couple toggle switches on it. One adds tons of low end if that is what you like. Can be set to Flat-warm-deep. Set to deep the low end is thundering.

Personally I haven't used it much with my V25. Since I got the Vintage 30's in my cab I have been fitting in the mix nice without a need for more power. But I like having it in case I do need it. And I use it for other applications. It has a loop and works excellent adding a loop to my amp that doesn't have one.

I have played with it though in a few applications with my Mark V25.
I have used it with the V25 speaker output going straight into the Power Station. Sounds great.

Also have tried it with the Effects send of the V25 going to the effects return of the power station. Equally great just a slightly different tone.

I must admit though, I am surprised with the gain set past noon on Mark IV mode you aren't getting enough gain. Now I won't play anything heavier then Metallica, but even in 2C+ mode my gain knob rarely goes past noon.
 
Go to Fret 12's website and watch Lamb of Gods latest video about there rigs. They have gone back to only using Mark iv's. Mark Morton gets additional gain from running a DBX compressor in front of his amp.
 

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