Swapping speakers in an Oversized 4x12?

Just picked up an oversized 4x12 with the original V30s, and I was A/B-ing it with my other 4x12 (one of those weird-looking angled front Fender Showman cabs with two V30s and two MC90s). The Mesa sounds good, but has noticeably more high midrange and less low-end "oomph" than the Fender. I guess I was expecting the larger cab to be bassier, even though I know V30s aren't particularly bassy speakers, so now I'm not sure if that Fender box is magically deep sounding or if the two MC90s make all the difference.

Anyhow, this has got me thinking about swapping a couple of speakers. I'd probably keep two V30s, but maybe swap in a couple of MC90s, EVM-12Ls, or ??? to balance out the low end. Anyone have good or bad experiences doing this in an OS 412?

I swapped out V30's for EVM12L's in my Mesa Standard 4X12. Sounds huge!!

I have two cabs with a mix of Mesa V30s and MC90s. I like the combo but I don't think the 90s added much low end oomph. Both are recto slants but one is the slant/straight cab. The slant straight sounded deeper but the interior volume should be the same. Maybe one set of 90s are more broken in than the other.

Very interested in the EVM12L.

I swapped 2 v30's in an oversized slant cab for 2 Eminence Delta pro 12a's and that made a huge difference. Kept the same v30 character and cut but added some tight low end. I have heard that the Delta pro is a "poor man's EVM 12L. I have never heard one so I can't say for sure but it is an impressive massive speaker. I recommend the swap highly.

firmani99 said:

I swapped 2 v30's in an oversized slant cab for 2 Eminence Delta pro 12a's and that made a huge difference. Kept the same v30 character and cut but added some tight low end. I have heard that the Delta pro is a "poor man's EVM 12L. I have never heard one so I can't say for sure but it is an impressive massive speaker. I recommend the swap highly.

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I need to pick up a pair of the Deltas.
If you could only mic one speaker, which one would you choose?

Look like the joke is on me...I found a pair of EVM-12Ls but the speaker mounting bolts aren't long enough because the EV frame is so thick. And with some of those bolts blocked by wooden braces under the grillcloth, there's no way to remove them.

So it looks like I may have to drill 4 more holes for each speaker, and put in longer bolts. Luckily the EVMs have 8 mounting holes so I'll put the new bolts between the old ones.

Unless I'm missing some obvious solution? Has anyone else had this problem?

I didn't have any problems, I used 4 new EVM12L's, into a 2007 straight standard rec cab.

mesaboogie6L6 said:

I didn't have any problems, I used 4 new EVM12L's, into a 2007 straight standard rec cab.

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Weird! Looks like I need a set of (I'm not making this up) SEX BOLTS.

Big_Al said:

firmani99 said:

I swapped 2 v30's in an oversized slant cab for 2 Eminence Delta pro 12a's and that made a huge difference. Kept the same v30 character and cut but added some tight low end. I have heard that the Delta pro is a "poor man's EVM 12L. I have never heard one so I can't say for sure but it is an impressive massive speaker. I recommend the swap highly.

Click to expand...

I need to pick up a pair of the Deltas.
If you could only mic one speaker, which one would you choose?

Click to expand...

I would mic the v30s. They have most of the character. And when miced they have plenty of low end. I like the Deltas for adding low end in the room, when not miced.

morgan138 said:

Look like the joke is on me...I found a pair of EVM-12Ls but the speaker mounting bolts aren't long enough because the EV frame is so thick. And with some of those bolts blocked by wooden braces under the grillcloth, there's no way to remove them.

So it looks like I may have to drill 4 more holes for each speaker, and put in longer bolts. Luckily the EVMs have 8 mounting holes so I'll put the new bolts between the old ones.

Unless I'm missing some obvious solution? Has anyone else had this problem?

Click to expand...

All you have to do is remove the grill cloth. (The screws for that are in the back of the cab pointing towards the front.) Then unscrew the existing screws, go to the hardware store and buy the same screws but longer. Problem solved!

firmani99 said:

All you have to do is remove the grill cloth. (The screws for that are in the back of the cab pointing towards the front.) Then unscrew the existing screws, go to the hardware store and buy the same screws but longer. Problem solved!

Click to expand...

Haha, you might be right! When I was reaching through the speaker holes a bunch of the screws were obstructed by pieces of wood bracing, but it didn't occur to me that those were probably part of the grill cloth frame and would come right off if I removed it.

Anyhow, I got some sex bolts to fit the existing screws but this is good to know for next time. Thanks!

It all depends on what amp you are pumping the speakers with.

I had converted my 15 year old OS Recto cab with Black Label EVM12's. I thought this was best overall sound ever. Did magic with the Mark V. Then I got a Roadster. Sounded great with the EV's too, except for palm muting, the EV's had too much drone. Recently bought a new os slant Recto cab to go with my RA100, that cab sounds incredible. The old V30's that I removed form the 15 year old cab did find a home in a cheep traditional size cab and out of disbelief they sounded really good. I basically broke them in with the RA100 (the old V30 speakers never got broken in since I did not like the sound of the speakers with my Mark IV combo). Once I got the Mark V head, the V30's had to go. I am glad that I held on to them and made use of them. Now I restored the 15 year old Recto cab (removed the EV and installed the original V30's that are now broken in). I have become a believer in the V30. WTF? I hated them so much that I thought they would sound better with a screw driver poked though the cone. Blame it on the RA100 since the V30 sounded the best with that amp I had to get another cab from Mesa but one that matches the RA100. The mounting holes on the V30 speaker were large enough to reuse the #10-24 screws I used to mount the EV. The 4 extra holes I drilled for the EV were filled with black RTV. I can still go back to the EV if I desired but now really like the V30 with the Roadster more than the EV.

I have tried the half and half concept. 2xV30 and 2XEV. I did not like it with the Mark V. I may retry it with the Roadster. One thing to note, the V30 and EV will be out of sync since there is a slight response time difference between the two different voice coils and magnetic field of the driver. Before converting the old Recto cab, I ran both 412 cabs from the Roadster. There was a notable delay difference between the V30 loaded cab and the EV loaded cab. Odd that I now prefer the V30 over the EV with the Roadster. I can tolerate the Mark V though the V30 cabs (sound much better now than 3 years ago) but I prefer the EV with the Mark V (now converted to a combo with EV BL installed) that the MC90 or V30.

I have played though the old Recto cab with the V30 for a while now. Some days I love it, and some days I do not. Debating if I should re-install the EV's. The V30's get a bit more fizzy and less defined as the volume goes up on the amp. Never had that problem with the EV, they just got louder, not fizzy. Actually they sounded better the higher the volume.

I want something that falls in between V30 and EV black label. Thinking about Scumback BH-75 LD, not too familiar with them other than sound clips.

I repeated the time consuming speaker swap again (V30 to the small cab and EV back in the Recto cab). I reinstalled the V30's back into their original 412 for more than one reason. One for the tone change, and secondly for confirmation that there is an issue with the 15 year old cab. It did not matter what speakers were in the cabinet, I still got the low frequency vibrating noise that sounds like a bad voice coil or leaking hole on the baffle. It took a while to discover where this bad vibe was coming from. It was a bad glue joint on the bottom edge of the baffle board. I was able to correct it with some wood screws at an angle through the baffle board from the front and rear. Too bad I did not make use of the cabinet over the years since it stayed in storage most of the time. Also for the past 8-10 years prior to 2012 I gave up on playing the guitar due to an injury that made playing extremely painful. Sold off most of my gear but kept the Mesa amps and cab.

Also, driving two 412 cabs loaded with V30 is an awesome experience. I can still do that but one cab is a bit smaller than the other. Once I finished returning the EV back into the old OS Recto 412 I had to fire up the amp and have some fun. Of course had to ask myself the question, " why did I take them out in the first place?" While I was reloading the speakers, I was listening to some music I had created with the Roadster and EV and realized it sounded really good. Why I went back, the V30's did sound good but there was a limit on volume that could be used before uncontrollable feedback would set in. Also with more volume (something tolerable not over the top loud) the mid's would muddy up the overall sound. This issue was only with the old Recto cab, the new one just sounds great no matter what you throw at it (speakers not quite broken in yet unless it was done by Mesa). I do not plan on removing any side handles, jack plate or back to look inside to see what the difference is. The new cab will remain sealed since I do not want to risk a change in tonal character. Perhaps that is one reason why I swapped the EV for the V30, having two cabs that sound as good as the new one would be great.

No loss for me, either way I still have an OS Recto cab with V30 that I bought last year. I do have choices, and if I want a certain tone I cannot get from the EV cab, I have two v30 cabs to choose from. I may end up retiring the old cab and replace with a new one identical to the one I have that matches the RA100. I really like the salt and pepper grill cloth vs the black (sure I can change the grill cloth on the old one if I want too). May even change the grill cloth on my Mark V combo. Why should the appearance matter anyway.

I have for some time been battling an issue with my first OS Recto slant cab. Odd vibrations at some low frequencies especially when muting strings. At first I assumed it was the speakers, but that was prone with other speakers in the cab. Sometimes it will not happen and all is well. As of late, I have swapped speakers a few times (EV to V30, V30 to EV and then back again to V30). The last swap the resonant vibrations occurred at a different frequency than before. One would think there was a leak around the speaker seal or missed holes lacking any sealant. You would be surprised how much noise a small hole will make on the baffle board. I had removed the grill to investigate the new noise and to my disappointment what I feared was true, the upper baffle board was the culprit. When I first swapped the V30 to EV, the cab had an odd vibration that seemed to originate along the bottom edge of the lower baffle board. That was easily cured with some wood screws set at an angle to secure the lower section. I played for a while to find the vibration source. The center section (area between all 4 speakers) was the origin of the noise. I did fix this before with a new center post since the old one was loose. Now it seems that the upper baffle is no longer secure. The noise would immediately go away if I placed my finger on the area with a little pressure. The fix was an angled brace connecting the area in question to the center post. Note that when you add material to the internal space, the tone will change due to change in dampening of the baffle board and reduced air volume of the inner cavity. With the brace installed, noise is gone along with some of the tone character of the low end and portion of the mids but not quite a bad change. The end result was a tighter sound. When compared to the new OS Recto cab I have, the difference can be noticed but it is not much of a difference. Similar to comparing EV to V30 at moderate volume setting. The next fix if I need one will be to replace the 15 yr old cab with a new one which is my long term plan, and when that happens, I will have two cabs I can gig with and two that will remain in the studio. I am rebuilding the Egnator cab with the original Celestion 16 ohm speakers (75W Elite custom for Egnator, has larger dust cap and 35oz mag compared to the V30 with small dust cap and 50oz mag). I have not heard them though the Roadster so I am curious how they will sound. Actually I do not believe I played though the Egnator cab with the original speakers since my first thing I did with this $200 cab was change the speakers to the V30's. It actually sounds good, also does not require two people to carry it. Interesting to note, it has similar caster hardware used by Mesa.