[audio] Updated AGAIN: Mark V vs Mark III

I love the sound I get on my blue stripe Mark III and have been trying to see how close I can get to it on my Mark V, to simplify organization of my studio if nothing else (I'm *NOT* selling it).

The latest updates to the Mark V manual have been really helpful. Based on the Mark III's history, I figured that Channel 3, in Mark IV mode, using triode instead of pentode might be a decent substitution.

Obviously, there are some things that are NOT going to be the same:

1. My blue stripe is a simulclass amp running EL34s and 6L6s. If anything, I'd expect the Mark V to be closer to a 60/100 watt Mark III running all 6L6s.
2. The blue stripe had more aggressive gain than the green stripe Mark III, which apparently became the foundation of the Mark IV sound.

So, clearly, just flipping the switch on the back of the Mark V to triode and putting the amp in Mark IV mode probably wasn't going to result in an exact duplicate.

That said, it's pretty darn close. I can definitely hear the more aggressive gain structure of the blue stripe Mark III, but I might say the same thing if I was comparing it to a green stripe Mark III, too (I've never used one).

Here's a >>link<< to the playlist if anyone is interested. I also tried IIC+ and Extreme modes just to see what would happen. With these settings, all three of the Mark V modes are very close to each other, and the Mark III is slightly (but wonderfully) a little more snarly and brazen.

I love that thing.

EDIT: the original tracks were multi tracked with a Dual Rectifier. Someone reasonably pointed out that, while the blend is nice, it would be useful to hear the tracks with just the Mark III or the Mark V. You can listen to the Mark-only versions here https://soundcloud.com/dlpasco/sets/war-pigs-isolated-guitars

Listening to these again, I can tell you, I had to dig in the pick *hard* on the Mark V to get the tearing, chainsaw roar I got so easily on the Mark III. But the fact is, they are all pretty **** good.

-Daniel

Cool!!

Both great tones but I prefer the Mark III, just more aggressive, like it's got more bite/snarl to it.

Mark III is the rebel who got kicked out of school for hitting the teacher. Mark V is the honor roll student who's going to college. Who do you think is the more badass of the two?

danyeo1 said:

Mark III is the rebel who got kicked out of school for hitting the teacher. Mark V is the honor roll student who's going to college. Who do you think is the more badass of the two?

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That is awesome

BTW, love your sound cloud clips.

Makes me want both.
****.

Great demos OP.

One question tho, on all tracks its the amp in question + a dual rec? Did I read that right?

elpingua said:

Great demos OP.

One question tho, on all tracks its the amp in question + a dual rec? Did I read that right?

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Yes. I really enjoyed the Mark III mixed in with the vintage mode of my dual rec. I was sharing what the final mix sounded like but can repost the isolated mark iii and mark v sounds if you would like.

For rock I think the combination of both amps is, well, nuclear.

Def a great blended sound! I think it would be easier to tell the differences between amps if the rec wasn't blended in. SO that you only hear the marks. Not knocking the recordings though, they sound great!

firmani99 said:

Def a great blended sound! I think it would be easier to tell the differences between amps if the rec wasn't blended in. SO that you only hear the marks. Not knocking the recordings though, they sound great!

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Boom: https://soundcloud.com/dlpasco/sets/war-pigs-isolated-guitars

Thank you for suggesting it, I'll add this to the original post as well.

You're the man!! Def a noticeable difference there!!

Thank you so much for putting these together. Couple of impressions:

First, holy crap dual rec+ any mark seems to sound friggin great.
Second, Mark V sounds so good on IIC and IV modes
Third, Mark V Extreme seems my least favorite of the voices but it still sounds pretty darn good (people on this forum don't seem to like it).
Fourth, thanks again for making this demo such an awesome job and shows pretty well the character of the amps. Good job sir Beers on me!

elpingua said:

Thank you so much for putting these together. Couple of impressions:

First, holy crap dual rec+ any mark seems to sound friggin great.
Second, Mark V sounds so good on IIC and IV modes
Third, Mark V Extreme seems my least favorite of the voices but it still sounds pretty darn good (people on this forum don't seem to like it).
Fourth, thanks again for making this demo such an awesome job and shows pretty well the character of the amps. Good job sir Beers on me!

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Thank you! This was a lot of fun to do and I learned a lot along the way. I really love the dual rec + mark sound, I think I'm going to keep it

I was reading the updated Mark V manual tonight and this bit caught my eye:

10 WATTS reconfigures the whole set of 6L6s so that the two nearest the 5U4 run pure Class A, single-ended—no longer push-pull. This is the ultimate low wattage output circuit that duplicates the essence of the best really old vintage circuits. Here, the second harmonic (an octave above the note played) is NOT cancelled out (as it is in push-pull circuits) and provides a magical halo surround- ing the notes. Onset of clip is so gradual that it’s hard to pin down the transition from clean to overdriven.

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I thought I was nuts, but I swear I'd heard an overtone in the Mark III that reminded me of a jet engine's roar, and I think it was the halo they are describing.

I warmed up the Mark V, put it in triode again, dropped it down to 10 watts, and re-recorded the three modes.

I think that they results are much, much closer to the Mark III than before (and they were really good before). I'm not sure why the Mark III would have this halo to it, even in simulclass, and there's a very strong possibility that I've just lost my mind from ear fatigue. I'd like to know what the rest of you think. Please give it a listen:

Isolated Marks
Dual Rectifier + Marks

dlpasco said:

I think that they results are much, much closer to the Mark III than before (and they were really good before). I'm not sure why the Mark III would have this halo to it, even in simulclass, and there's a very strong possibility that I've just lost my mind from ear fatigue. I'd like to know what the rest of you think. Please give it a listen:

Isolated Marks
Dual Rectifier + Marks

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I remastered all of the tracks (blended and isolated) to ensure that everything was at exactly the same volume level. The 10W Mark V modes sound fantastic, especially when you A/B them with the 90W versions.

Great amps.

Wow that's amazing!! I never play in 10 watt mode but it really sounds good recorded!

firmani99 said:

Wow that's amazing!! I never play in 10 watt mode but it really sounds good recorded!

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I certainly *hadn't* been, but I think this may have pushed me over into the 10 WATTS 4 LIFE category.

Great clips! Thanks for putting them up. You are only fueling my Mark V fire...

I've listened to these tracks again and I must say that I am still blown away by the ten watt clips. They sound so much better!! And when I'm jamming I can't get in to the ten watt sound.

For comparison...my question is.... while you are recording, how loudly are you recording? IN other words are the guitars being recorded quietly enough that the 90 watt mode isn't being pushed enough? Again I am not knocking the recording at all I am just wondering if a pushed 90 watt version would sound as good or is ten watts always better for recording?

Now I wish I have not sold my Mark III, it was a blue stripe too. That was one great amp and served me well over the 25 years of ownership. I sold it 2 months before I got the Mark V. It really performed well during my band days from late 80's to early 90's.

I kept the Mark IV (b) and missed the Mark III after it was gone.