Stiletto Deuce vs Mark IV

I'm sure you guys have answered plenty of posts about amps vs amps, but I'm in a bind.
I can get a rackmount mark iv head or a stiletto stage I deuce for the same amount of money ($1000, which are both pretty good prices in Saskatchewan Canada) I had a stiletto ace 212 that I sold because it was just too heavy and I wanted to get a few different guitars, so after about a year I am regretting my wandering from mesa and want back in.

The Mark series of amps has always seemed like the grail of amps to me, although I have only played it a few times, it just seems like all tones exist in there somewhere, however, I find that I almost always lean towards a british inspired sound, I love a "marshally" crunch, similar to my current DSL50. I'm not stuck on a marshall though (my DSL seems to be having some reliability issues, which is what is sending me on the new amp road). Also the few times I have tried a mark series amp I find them a touch sterile/harsh on the high gain channel sounding (likely my problem setting them)

On to the Stiletto series, the ACE that I had was pretty bright, I found I could darken it a little with jj preamp tubes and some knob fiddling, although I found it didn't have any thump to it, and it was always just a little to "raspy"/"Grating". I loved the crunch tone on channel one with tube rectifier and spongy power mode, and quite enjoyed the tite gain with an eq in the loop and a boost. I never did change out the power tubes for a set from the tube store or Eurotubes, although it was on my mind.

Anyways,

Is the mark series going to give me all I hope for....or should I stick with the stilletto, (i'm not sure if it is a stage 1 or stage 2) (other note I...am more of a basement player than a gig player (I turn it up loud enough in my house), I would love to get out and play more, but I find it difficult with 2 newer babies around )

Any and all comments welcome

Thanks

Also,

I have a an orange 212 PPC that I will be running the amps through, and I play a combination of ibanez prestige 7 rg1527, Ibanez Artist, and a nice mexi strat. When I play, I mostly play 90's alternative and thrash/metal.

When you owned the Stiletto, did you try turning the Treble/Presence down to 9:00 or below?

I'd describe the tone, but my description wouldn't do it any justice. The basics are that a Mark is typically compressed and refined sounding while the Stiletto is typically more open and raw sounding. They both produce a lot of mids and bottom, but the texture is totally different and I don't know how to describe it without being misleading since both amps are capable of much more than a single tone. A lot of people describe the Stiletto as bright and thin sounding, but I have a Mark and Recto for reference and I have no problem getting the my Ace to hold it's own against either of those two amps despite the 50w disadvantage.

It might be handy if you told us your playing style and what kind of bands have the sound you're after.

Mark IV

Good - Tight and Compressed, midrange focused. Every note is articulate. (Can be rough on us sloppy players) The more gain you add the tighter it gets. It cuts like a knife and you will never be lost in the mix. It's tough to beat if you love to good metal chug, screaming leads and solo like Steve Vai. Crystal clear boomy cleans like a fender twin w/o the deep reverb.

Bad - It's tough to get a nice bluesy or warm crunchy overdrive tone. Not ideal for southern rock or blues.

The Stiletto

Good - Much more Marshall-ish with a little recto tossed in for good measure. Overall can get much warmer with a nice overdriven breakup and can still go over the top high-gain if you need it.

Bad - some folks say it's too icepicky. I believe that's more settings, tubes and speakers.

Overall I'd say the Stiletto is more flexible amp if you play a variety of music. But if you like the way a Mark IV sounds it's very hard to duplicate with anything else out of the Mark line.

The Mesa mark IV lack of mid gain sounds might be the killer for me. I quite liked the mark I sounds from channel 2 on a mark v. Can a person find that in the mark IV? The stiletto is actually a stage 2, which I'm not sure that I like. I was actually quite interested in the stage 1. It seemed more transparent and less compressed. The metal sound can usually be found with a good eq and boost, but a nice mid gain is harder to find.

I had the treble and presence around 9 or 10 o clock. The 212 combo maybe was just too small of a 'cab'

I thought the mark IV was a more versatile amp, with 3 channels, but I guess they don't have a switchable rectifier or power. Is the stage 1 a lot more bright/trebly?

johnnyko5 said:

I thought the mark IV was a more versatile amp, with 3 channels, but I guess they don't have a switchable rectifier or power. Is the stage 1 a lot more bright/trebly?

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You can switch simu-class / class A power settings or triode/pentode. The mark Iv also has a tweed mode with reduced power. If you are a bedroom player IMO the Mark is the only choice. I'd also like to mention that i've never had problems getting blues tones out of it. Even channel 2, to me is exceptional, it can do blues to stone temple pilots instantly.

The Mark V is even better for a bedroom player if you can afford it. It's no where near as full and lush but nails specific tones masterfully and is easier on the ears in 10 watt / variac mode.

If you can find the Mark 1 mode in the Mark IV it's probably channel 3 triode. I actually prefer the Mark IV's chanel 3 for that type of sound.

The Mark IV can play killer blues, but you must have the correct type of pickups and guitar to make it really happen. When I play my 1969 Gibson SG with T-Tops on channel two it kills for blues.

Vintage guitar w/pickups ---> Mark IV channel two/tweed/triode/class A = pure blues tone

I'm thinking that probably my best option is to get the mark IV, since it seems like such a tweeker amp that you can get most anything out of(which is probably bad because I'm sometimes more of a tweeker then a guitar player ) and if it doesn't work out after a few months I should be able to turn it around alot quicker then a stiletto head. I've seen a few stilettos listed locally for months and months, and the guitar stores in town seem to not be able to get rid of them, I don't know why because I think they sound pretty good.

I am going to spend a good hour in a store playing with both through a similar cab and make a better informed decision, but right now I am leaning mark iv

I appreciate all of the help and if anybody has something else to add I'm still listening/reading.

Thanks

GD_NC said:

Mark IV

Bad - It's tough to get a nice bluesy or warm crunchy overdrive tone. Not ideal for southern rock or blues.

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Maybe it's because you have a Mk IVb (or your pickups, etc...), but on my IVa with a SG with either a lower-gain Pearly Gates+ or P90s, I think R2 is about the most perfect mid-gain sound I've ever had, and I used to be a self-professed R2 hater.

I had a Stiletto 2 Deuce... meh.

Stiletto was never one of Mesa's 'trendy' amps like the Recto or Mark series. It came across rather low key, actually, and I don't think I would have given one a second look if it weren't for this forum. I'll just say that I almost never play my Recto at this point, but I was never big on trends myself.

I think the deuce is out for now. I also have a decent deal lined up for a dual recto solo head, but definitely leaning mark 4. I tried a dual rectifier roadster and was actually pleasantly surpirsed at the low mid-gain tones on all channels, as well as the obvious high gain. But a solo head isn't a raodster. The one I am looking at is a 3 channel solo head without the half power switches. My only remaining issue with the mark iv head is that I will need to get it sent here from another city (my brother, who doesn't play guitar, is going to pick it up for me) is there anything I should be looking out for as far as reliability issues with an older mark 4?

I'm heading to a guitar store again tonight to check out a solo head and a mark v, through my cab this time.

I loved how the mark that I tried had a very distinct note articulation and tracking. Every note jumps out and move to the next with absolutely no sludge or mud, and with the lead gain and lead drive both on 8 with fat and bright pulled, pentode class A and a v eq it really felt like I could of sat there all day and wanked around metalling it up, both rhythms and lead runs. It was fantastic, and that was through a combo with a c90.

Mark IV all the way (imho)...plus, it sounds like you're already sold on the idea. If you already played one and wanted to play it all day, I believe your answer is right there. Depending on what year it is, it may need a quick tune-up from Boogie. They are great amps and will keep you discovering tones for quite some time.

lockbody said:

GD_NC said:

Mark IV

Bad - It's tough to get a nice bluesy or warm crunchy overdrive tone. Not ideal for southern rock or blues.

Click to expand...

Maybe it's because you have a Mk IVb (or your pickups, etc...), but on my IVa with a SG with either a lower-gain Pearly Gates+ or P90s, I think R2 is about the most perfect mid-gain sound I've ever had, and I used to be a self-professed R2 hater.

I had a Stiletto 2 Deuce... meh.

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Agree 100% about the pickups. P90's are best for that. What are your R2 settings for mid-gain blues?

I may just be biased by my maverick. It's a great mid-gain amp.

I used to have a Mark IV combo. The only external cab I ever played it through is my 3/4-back with a C90. I say that because a closed-back cab with V30's will be a different experience.

Out of all your options, I would say Mark IV all the way, without even a shadow of a doubt. It is capable of some great sounds, but it can be very frustrating trying to find them. Also, is had two settings: off and LOUD. It's not an apartment amp.

If you could find a used Lone Star Classic, I think that would be a great choice, too. It's one of the warmest, most versatile amps Mesa has ever made. It won't give you Marshall sounds, but it's capable of some lovely high gain. Just an idea. I wouldn't recommend the Special for your situation, though. Lovely amps, those Lone Stars...

GD_NC said:

lockbody said:

GD_NC said:

Mark IV

Bad - It's tough to get a nice bluesy or warm crunchy overdrive tone. Not ideal for southern rock or blues.

Click to expand...

Maybe it's because you have a Mk IVb (or your pickups, etc...), but on my IVa with a SG with either a lower-gain Pearly Gates+ or P90s, I think R2 is about the most perfect mid-gain sound I've ever had, and I used to be a self-professed R2 hater.

I had a Stiletto 2 Deuce... meh.

Click to expand...

Agree 100% about the pickups. P90's are best for that. What are your R2 settings for mid-gain blues?

I may just be biased by my maverick. It's a great mid-gain amp.

Click to expand...

I'm at work, but off the top of my head it's probably 6-8/8/5/2/4 Gain/T/M/B/P pull fat. However, my view of mid-gain and yours may be different, plus with P90s I like to roll the guitar's volume back a bit to clean it up, then crank it for solos, etc.

Also, your Mk IVb's R2 has more gain and a bit different tone than an "a". I never found a pleasing R2 tone to my ears with my first Mark IV, which was a "b". Too muddy, compressed and undefined for my tastes. We do 60s through late 70s covers and I live on R2 these days. I call it my Hiwatt channel.

Went with a mark IV rackmount head with rack case, it's on it's way this weekend and I am getting more excited all the time.

My current cabinet is a orange ppc212 that I took 1 vintage 30 out of and put a g12h30 heritage, had to rewire and the cab is now a 8ohm cab not a 16 ohm, rated at 60W. (I actually took 2 8 ohm v30's out and put 2 16 ohm speakers in in parallel). i don't plan on turning the amp up to 10 so I'm not really worried about blowing speakers.

Anyways, I'm wondering how well the mark 4's do with non-mesa cabs (especially different speakers like a g12h30, not normally found in any mesa's that I know about), I guess I will find out. I've just heard that the mark iv is very speaker/cabinet dependent. If it doesn't work I'll just put the v30's back in and if that doesn't work I'll trade it off on a mesa 212.

Anyways, thanks for the help, I'll try to post some clips of my NAD. (that sounds way worse than I meant it too, maybe I should say N.A.D)