Speakers: Tone Satisfaction Survey

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Tommy_G

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I think we're all trying to get to the bottom of tone issues on a couple of Mesa amps (Nomad and Heartbreaker, for me).

Most all Mesa's have a very comparably voiced clean channel and have at least one channel with a signature Boogie lead tone of some vintage.

So, bottom line, I'm interested to know if you've tried speakers other than the MC90 Black Shadow, and what your relative satisfaction of it was for lead or clean guitar work.

Thanks!
 
I am considering a hemp cone, but Tone Tubby hemp speakers are so pricy. I can only find the Cannabis Rex in 50W and I know I need a 100w to replace the C90 in my Nomad 55. The Cannabis Rex will work in a 2x or a 4x extension cabinet.
 
I bought one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CELESTION-G12-80-8-OHM-TONE-TUBBY-HEMP-CONE-SPEAKER-MADE-ENGLAND-/300623605226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fe902dea
I sold the amp I was going to put it in, but I would be happy to sell it to you for $50 + $20 for shipping!
Much cheaper than a Tone Tubby!


For my Heartbreaker, I have been using a mixed pair of speakers:
Mojotone BV-30H & BV-30V
http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/speakers-12-inch/British-Vintage-Series-12-BV-30H-Speaker-8-OHM-30W-1-5-V
http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/speakers-12-inch/British-Vintage-Series-12-BV-30V-Speaker-8-OHM-60W-1-5-V
For the price, they are incredible! Original Celestion paper & made in America!

I have also used a pair of Weber California speakers in my Heartbreaker.
If I were looking for great clean headroom that will not break up, I would still have them in there.
They are freakishly heavy though!
 
Going back 3 years ago when I bought my Nomad 100 Head as NOS, I could swear I recall it being hooked into a closed back rectifier cabinet with V30's - and it ripped on the lead channels, and I bought the head on the spot, and took it home to hook into my open back C90 Lonestar cab.

I was looking around gearpage and a respectable amp guru made the comment that the Nomad's were one of few amps that just never sounded good with C90's. I thought that was directionally where the discussion is going in the Mud Mod thread.

I also read on another forum that closed back cabs add thump to the bottom end. As discussed the Nomad's NFB loop cut out some lows relative to highs, and as Koreth indicated, NFB helps control flub. I don't have any meaningful experience with closed back cabs, but if these assertions are correct, maybe the NFB loop of the Nomad was designed with a closed back in mind.

Another complaint about the Nomad is that the amp feels too rigid. I confirm that complaint when I compare to the Heartbreaker on the curvaceous setting. The nomad feels like the bold setting, no 'feel'. I've read that closed-back cabs soften the feel of an amp.

So, in total, maybe the Nomad really is a no-man's land amp as roughly described in the Product Manual. It has a near perfect clean channel (Fender derivative+) that would sound the best through a jensen open back cab, not unlike the 4x10 alnico cabs that were an option with the N45's and Heartbreakers, but the lead channels are Marshall derivatives, and would sound best through a closed-back V30 cab.

Further, I'm pretty sure I read that the "Road" series has a 2x12 with a mixed speaker complement - V30 and C90. I wonder if that is switchable?

Maybe the jack of all trades/master of none speaker the Celestion Century is the best answer for the likewise jack of all/master of none Nomad for a 1x12 live gigging mic'd cab?
 
I am a fan of V30 speakers, because I tend to use more crunch than clean. I like the C90 for clean, though it tends to be a bit bright for my tastes. I have a G12T-100 in a box that I hate for any style. I used to have a 4x12 and I put 2 G12T-75 and 2 V30 in it, and it was probably the best-sounding 12" cab I've had. I like the idea of a 2x12 with 1 V30 and 1 C90 for this reason.

Cab design has at least as much effect as speaker. I think of C90 as overly bright probably because I've only ever had them in open cabs. I have only had V30s in closed cabs (as far as I can remember). I A/B'd a 1x12 recto (V30) with a 1x12 3/4 (C90), and found that the 3/4 had more low end and more... ummm... dimension to it. The recto cab was super tight, but it was sterile - there was no life to the high end. Almost like the 3/4 had acoustic reverb, where the recto sort of died off after the note.

Having said that, I sold a pair of 3/4 1x12s and replaced them with rectos, which I like a lot. It was actually about size, as the 3/4 are like twice as big as the rectos.

My favorite at the moment is an open-back 4x10 with Jensens. It has a ton of low end and is very tight sounding, but also gets nice and crispy at the high end and doesn't sound sterile or dead to me.
 
Interesting...
I have had my Nomad 55 since 2000. I played it frequently, learned how to play a Mesa and adjust a Mesa for just about any situation/configuration. I have spent loads of time researching tone and its "sources" and "sinks". During that time, I have often thought, "How can I remove the mud and brittleness at the same time" and "That C90" sounds like crap." I have often thought a closed back cabinet would make it sound better. Then many Mesa cabs come with C90s. Yes I will wind up building my own 2x loaded with tone tubbys or cannabis rexes.

I appreciate (and support) the comments above, highlighted:

1) Perhaps the Nomad amp would be better suited for closed back cabs, especially if C90s are the drivers.
2) Nomad 55 through C90s in an open back = Bright/Brittle/Sterile
3) The NFB defeat/tuning mods seem to compensate for this deficiency. My observation -The stock speaker (C90) never sounded so full and warm as when the NFB was defeated.

Anyhoo I have to finish a chicken coop then play my LP through my Nomad now.

Laters!
 
Been browsing a whole lot of speaker shootouts on youtube. The Heritage 65's beat out the neo-mag Century Vintages (metallic), and the Seventy 80 sounds like an improvement on the Vintage 30, although maybe it has too much top end which sort of thins the tone out. The Eminence v128's and Tonkers are showing well with me. Most of the others sound like their going through a bandpass filter. EVM12L (original Mk1) sounds awesome, but no better than a Tonker. Through a laptop speaker...FWiW.
 
It's funny. I've never thought of the C-90 as harsh, shrill or brittle.
I really like it because no matter how much gain I throw at it, it won't buckle under the pressure.
I also really like what it does for my cleans.
Guess part of that is due to the fact that I like dark sounding amps. :mrgreen:

So far though.....the MojoTones are the best sounding speakers I have ever used with my Heartbreaker......
 
I think the assessment is in comparison to V30's. I would say the C90's don't have any meat to the body of the tone. Every youtube soundclip (esp. clean) will prove that out. I don't hear them as being brittle. The rasp of a PV scorpion, by comparison is the definition of brittle.
 
My current fave is the Eminence Texas Heat for my Mark III.
150 watts; warm, fat bottom; smooth, un-shrill highs; a bit scooped in the mids, and sounds good at low volume levels because it has an earlier breakup.
Less clinical sounding than my benchmark EVM 12 L.
(I always go back to the EV).
I wasn't a fan of the Vintage 30 in a Maverick, but it sounded fine in a old, cranked 12 watt Ampeg Jet.
The Celestion G12-T100 is a good high power speaker with a decent bottom end, but a bit middy for my ears right now. I've been doing a lot of recording in small spaces, close to the amp, so a less spiky speaker like the Texas Heat works well for me.
The Jensen C12K is similar to the EV but with a more scooped midrange than the EV. Fendery crisp and clean, with lots of high power low end.
Speakers can be weird. I've been changing them out frequently, looking for "the" tone, and thinking the stock C-90 wasn't that great, but I'd bet that if I put one back in, I'd find things to like about it.
 
From TGP - "Random" collection of thoughts regarding the MC-90: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=149483&page=2

Overall the view is favorable and the consensus seems to be that the speakers are meant to drive hard. I subjective data-set is now skewed. I can't judge the MC-90 in my Express. At 25W, it can not really drive the speaker like it should... HARD, how can a 25 watt amp or a preamp test do so? Also, now that I modded the Nomad, I think the stock speaker sounds great, no issues.

I still am interested in building a 2x with TTs or CRs in them. 3/4 back-ed, I think.
 
I am looking for an MC-90 speaker response curve and datasheet. Does one exist?
How representative would the Celestion CL-80 curve be?

Thanks!
 
I've been pouring over speaker curves, and the only one so far that catches my attention (by the curve and sensitivity) is the Jensen P10R. Interesting, both the Heartbreaker and Nomad 45 came with a 4xP10R as an option. The Heartbreaker is GD loud that a low sensitivity speaker is probably the more important issue, in order to bring some of the dullness out via the power amp section.

I hope someone chimes in about their relative satisfaction with the 4xP10R cabinet with these amps.

What I wish the manufacturers would report is the sensitivity curve at different load levels, I'm sure it has a dramatic change before and after speaker breakup.

I haven't found anything on the C90, so I'm just using the CL-80 as a proxy, and expecting slightly greater high freq response.
 
If you're any good at soldering, I can help you get rid of the blanket on your Heartbreaker.
I'm working on some mod kits for most older Mesa amps.

There are a couple of really easy things you can do that will turn it into a new amp. I would be happy to share the easy ones for free. I can't, unfortunately, give the more in depth ones away though, sorry.
Let me know if you're interested.
I might have a little time to run a thread about it too, but this month is hectic for me.
 
Tommy_G said:
I've been pouring over speaker curves, and the only one so far that catches my attention (by the curve and sensitivity) is the Jensen P10R. Interesting, both the Heartbreaker and Nomad 45 came with a 4xP10R as an option. The Heartbreaker is GD loud that a low sensitivity speaker is probably the more important issue, in order to bring some of the dullness out via the power amp section.

I hope someone chimes in about their relative satisfaction with the 4xP10R cabinet with these amps.

What I wish the manufacturers would report is the sensitivity curve at different load levels, I'm sure it has a dramatic change before and after speaker breakup.

I haven't found anything on the C90, so I'm just using the CL-80 as a proxy, and expecting slightly greater high freq response.

I have a old mesa 4 x 10 that has the Jensen speakers you are talking about. I am very satisfied with this cabinet. It's a lot lighter than a 4 x 12 and more compact. The cab actually fits in the trunk of my car including my MKV head in the trunk! Soundwise, it's an open back so expect the sound to be all over the stage. Better for everyone in the band if they need to hear your guitar. To my ears, the cab is pretty balanced, it can give you decent low end and also the "shimmer" that a 4 x 10 offers. In comparison to my 1 x 12 recto closed back, the 1 x12 has a lot more low end but lacking in the mid to upper frequencies, so, you have to consider the trade off. You can always compensate for the low end via the GEQ though. May want to consider though that in a band context, with our bass player and keyboard player occupying the low to mid low frequencies, the mid range bark of a 4 x 10 just suits the mix fine!!
 
gummx97 said:
The cab actually fits in the trunk of my car including my MKV head in the trunk!

Thanks for chiming in.

You know its time to replace that '79 Grand Marquis! :lol:

Joking aside, I couldn't help myself, but put an order in for one of those new Eminence ReignMaker's today.

Check out youtube. www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_TodXCVbBo

I really don't know how it will fit for tone, but the gimmick/invention that sold me is something I just have to try out....A user adjustable dial on the speaker coil magnet that allows you to get 9 dB of attenuation without needing a $750 power brake. Cost $130....

Anyways, that's just for fun. Still looking for the best speaker.
 
My 4x10 is a Mesa. According to their customer service, it was most likely one of their standard extension cabs and immediately predated the LS 4x10.

Unlike the LS 4x10, mine is 24"x24"x10.5", so it is more compact. It is open back, with a little less than 50% of the back covered by equal-sized top and bottom panels across the back. It has Jensen P10R speakers.

I can't say enough about it. It sounds great with any tone at any volume. Even when I push my amp into hard metal, it never gets muddy or anemic. It has a surprising amount of low-end (though a 4x12 probably has more at high volume). I A/B'd it with my 1x12 recto, and the recto was the muddier of the two AND had less low-end. The 4x10 is VERY clear sounding, even with my Electradyne cranked on the 90W setting and just beating the heck out of the speakers.

I got the thing in trade, and never expected to want to keep it. I thought "medium head plus 1x12, perfect for portability...". Now I'm wedging the 4x10 into the back seat of my coupe every time. At least I can. A 4x12 would be out of the question, and even a 2x12 would probably not really fit. I don't think the 4x10 is even 40lbs. Great for my aging back. And it's tall enough on its own that I can hear it without propping it up.
 
Monsta-Tone said:
If you're any good at soldering, I can help you get rid of the blanket on your Heartbreaker.
I'm working on some mod kits for most older Mesa amps.

There are a couple of really easy things you can do that will turn it into a new amp. I would be happy to share the easy ones for free. I can't, unfortunately, give the more in depth ones away though, sorry.
Let me know if you're interested.
I might have a little time to run a thread about it too, but this month is hectic for me.

Don't hold back MT! Start a thread already.
 

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