TUBE CARE -when is it better to turn off rather than standby

Imagine that you are taking a break from playing. Certainly, it is better for the tubes to leave the amp in standby if you are only going to be gone for 5 minutes. But, if you are going to be gone for 2 weeks, the tubes would have less wear if you turned off the amp and turned it on when you returned. But, where is the break even point? In other words, what is the maximum idle time that tubes can wait in standby before it would have been better to have turned the amp off? Is there a definative answer to this question???

If I know that I'll be away for more than half an hour, I turn the amp off. I'm just anal like that.

im pretty much in the blue about when im "supposed" to do it. if i know im going to be gone for more than 15 minutes ill usualy shut it down.

I'm not sure of the proper way but, heres what I've done for the last 13 years of playing with tube amps in general. When I play a 4 or 5 hour night and the band takes a 15 minute break, I dont even mess with anything - I don't put it in standby or switch it off. I've been doing it like this for 10 years with one of my amps ('72 fender deluxe) and have never had a problem. Now, heres a couple other situations I do put it in standby:
1) We do sound check and finish a half hour-ish before we go on I'll put it in stand by but if it's over a half an hour I'll just switch it off and turn it on a couple of minutes before we go on.
2) But if we're trading sets (hour long sets) with another band, I'll just put it in stand by so the tubes are ready to go when we walk up there.

3) all that being said, I wont leave my amp on at all if it's going to be over an hour and a half or so, even my old solid state amps I turn off, I feel it's a waste of energy and unecessary wear on an amp.

I do put it in stand by for about a minute at the end of every gig before switching it off, and if it's cold outside I'll wait about 10 minutes before I take my amp outside. I had a bandmate that had an old Vibro-lux and we played one night when it was about 15 degrees outside and as soon as we finished playing he switched off his amp and carried it outside within a matter of 30 seconds and at the next gig he had a crack in one of his tubes and I almost guaranty it was from the sudden blast of below freezing air hitting those hot tubes.

Just a response to tele_jas,

I just recently bought my first MB, also my first tube amp. I read about the startup (amp on standby, power up the amp and after 30s turn on the standby). I thought I should just reverse the sequence to give the tubes a "cool down" before shutting off the amp. The sales guy told me to turn off the amp first because any stored charged would not be ground out if the standby switch was returned to standy while the power was still on.

It looks like you've been doing this for sometime with out any problems. I'm just sharing what I was told. Any other ideas out there?

cheekymonkey said:

Just a response to tele_jas,

I just recently bought my fist MB, also my first tube amp. I read about the startup (amp on standby, power up the amp and after 30s turn on the standby). I thought I should just reverse the sequence to give the tubes a "cool down" before shutting off the amp. The sales guy told me to turn off the amp first because any stored charged would not be ground out if the standby switch was returned to standy while the power was still on.

It looks like you've been doing this for sometime with out any problems. I'm just sharing what I was told. Any other ideas out there?

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Okay, I've heard both of these recommendations. Which is the right answer?

I used to power off without going to Standby first on my DC5 and Nomad, but when I tried this with my Blue Angel, I would get a loud "pop" at power off. Using Standby first prevents the pop.

I always wonder about this too, and from what I've read its key to turn on with the standby first (30 sec ) to let the power tubes warm up slowly and not zap them with all the juice immediately. Of course some types of tube recftifiers do that anyway. This start up seems more important then the shut down, because the draining part (letting the juice out) does not raise the same issues, thus you can go straight to off. I still go to standby on power down out of habit I guess, because it can't hurt, but it might not be necessary. It is important not to move an amp with hot tubes (like right after use) for about 10 minutes because the tubes are more suceptable to damage when hot. Of course, as someone posted above, there is also the issues of going into freezing air, but I've never really had to deal with that in sunny, warm Florida :wink:

cheekymonkey said:

Just a response to tele_jas,

I just recently bought my fist MB, also my first tube amp. I read about the startup (amp on standby, power up the amp and after 30s turn on the standby). I thought I should just reverse the sequence to give the tubes a "cool down" before shutting off the amp. The sales guy told me to turn off the amp first because any stored charged would not be ground out if the standby switch was returned to standy while the power was still on.

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When you turn the power on (in standby), it turns on the tube heaters.

When powering down, putting the amp back in standby will leave the tube heaters on.

If you're trying to cool down your amp leaving the tube heaters turned on is counter productive.

IMO, power the amp strait off and if it's cold out let it cool to room tempature naturally (IE, in the off postition). Turning the amp strait off also discharges the caps (that popping sound you hear through the speakers).

screamingdaisy said:

If you're trying to cool down your amp leaving the tube heaters turned on is counter productive.

IMO, power the amp strait off and if it's cold out let it cool to room tempature naturally (IE, in the off postition). Turning the amp strait off also discharges the caps (that popping sound you hear through the speakers).

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correct me if Im wrong here, but stand by mode warms up the amp with lower voltage than when its running, so how would this counter productive?

I think that Screamimgdaisy is saying that if you want to cool down the tubes then leaving the amp on standby will keep the heaters on. Leaving the heaters on is counter productive to cooling down the tubes.

Does anybody know if the popping sound of the caps discharging is harmful to the speakers? It sounds kind of harsh to me.

cheekymonkey said:

Does anybody know if the popping sound of the caps discharging is harmful to the speakers? It sounds kind of harsh to me.

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Yeah, gives me the willies alright. My old Peavey Classic 30 did that too, and that amp didn't have a standby switch.

Tried shutting off the amp after putting it on standby ... no popping sound. This sounds better but I'm not sure if this is the right way to shut it down. :?

Well it only took 4 months but I finally called MB about the popping sound. I left a message and I was called back in about 15 minutes.

The proper way to turn off the amp is to place the amp on standby first and then power it down. The caps will still be charged but the charge will dissipate over time.

Hope this helps.

Hey, I had been wondering. Thanks for posting that, Cheeky.

When all else fails, call the Home of Tone.

-Gary K

You're welcome Tiger.

It bothers me a bit that the salesman told me otherwise but I sure felt better turning off my amp the right way last night.

In my experience, a salesman will tell you anything to make a sale or to hear himself talk. This is especially true at GC. Listening to someone try and explain the difference between classA and classA/B was downright hilarious. When it comes to technical info, either call Mesa or comb through the forums, don't depend on a salesman

depends on the salesman. yes, we assume the sale, and we work very
hard to get it, but that doesnt mean lying or spewing out some BS, it means
finding out the answer to the question when you dont know it.

The question was posed after the sale was made. Actually, I played the amp on my own and decided to buy without speaking to any sales people.

He had a valid point about the caps remaining charged, but my point was that he should know how to turn the amp on and off properly.

I always power straight off, and I don't have any popping noise- just a wierd whistling. I do all the repair work though on my amp, so I'm anal about discharging the caps.