Mesa Amps in General

Hey guys....just want to chime in with my experiences regarding Mesa amps over the past year. As most of the regulars probably know, I have a Rectoverb series II combo and really like the versatility of the amp. I've tried the F-series (new and used) and find that overall they're great amps but don't have the type of gain I'm looking for (except the F-30). The other problem I have is that most all of my other experiences with Mesa's are at the local GC and are always used gear (my GC cannot carry Mesa). In almost every case, the amps sound like crap and getting a good tone out of them is a chore.

I've now tried the following..
F-100 - decent clean, crappy everything else
Blue Angel - no comment
Nomad 45 - decent sounds but certainly not purchase worthy
Studio 22 - pedestrian
Maverick 2x12 - you can have it. :roll:
Mark IV widebody - total crap
Lonestar Special - decent but noisy
Nomad 4x10 - crappy gain
ROV series 1 - best of the bunch (which I bought before selling for a series 2)

After plugging into these amps, I'll walk over to the Crate V32 and get wonderfully, normal, good tube tones.

My question is this....obviously the above list includes some alleged great amps....what the heck are people doing to these poor things before they trade them in?

BTW - the 2 best sounding used tube amps for gain tones (not versatility) were a Groove Tubes Soul-0 50 and a Bedrock 1x12 combo. Absolutely delicious medium to high gain sounds. Both were in great gigging condition with new tubes etc.

The first thing that comes to mind is that a retubing would be in order for a used amp.

The noisy Lonestar is puzzling, when they are in good health they are as quiet as you could want in a tube amp.

That's what I was expecting..especially considering the price tag for a 30 watt amp 8). In regards to tubes, they had to replace a 12AX7 in the ROV before I would even consider it. The thing squealed like a pig with the gain over 1 o'clock.

tiger roach said:

The first thing that comes to mind is that a retubing would be in order for a used amp.

The noisy Lonestar is puzzling, when they are in good health they are as quiet as you could want in a tube amp.

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What kind of music are you playing? Have you tried a Recto or Road King?

Here's a little listen to a Rectifier rig.
http://www.thesamhillband.com/satall.mp3

Mark Day
www.thesamhillband.com
[/url]

Hey sam....sorry for the confusion...I'm not looking for an amp (I have the series 2 ROV)...it's just more of a concern as to the treatment of amps that get traded in. If I didn't know better (from reading these boards) and someone asked what I thought of Mesa's, I'd tell you that most of their amps are garbage, based on my attempts at playing them at guitar center (used) Now, I certainly know better than that but man it would do my heart good to plug into a blue angel and actually have it sound good 8)

samhill said:

What kind of music are you playing? Have you tried a Recto or Road King?

Here's a little listen to a Rectifier rig.
http://www.thesamhillband.com/satall.mp3

Mark Day
www.thesamhillband.com
[/url]

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I've played those Crate V series...30, 15 and 5. They sound great!! Good lil amp for those natural warm blues tones. I think sometimes that Mesa has slowly wandered away from that good warm tube tone. Don't get me wrong, the high watt, high gain Mesa crunch is uncomparable, but there are so many great sounds from those little low watt amps that you just can't get w/ a new Mesa...

I think one of the drawbacks to some models is that Mesa tries to market an amp that is everything to every player. The best you can hope for from any amp is one great sound, and maybe one other usuable sound. Multiple channel amps with multiple voices per channel simply offer too many variables.

There is a builder in Atlanta named Richard Goodsell. He builds a line of amps that have three knobs and no channel switching. Reverb is an option but isn't standard. Most of these are 112 combos. They sound fantastic. I'm not saying that Mesa amps don't, but we all know that Mesas have NEVER been plug n' play amps. You have to work on it and find those sweet spots. With a Goodsell, if you don't find your tone within 10 seconds, then it ain't the amp for you!

I learned about all this the hard way. Two years ago, I bought a Nomad 100. I thought, three channels, I should get all the sounds I need from one amp. As it turns out, I use the modern setting of channel two almost all the time - there's that one great sound for me. When I need clean, I switch to a Blue Angel that I've dialed in for my perfect clean. The Nomad's channel one ain't happening for me. When I need more gain than the Nomad's channel two can offer, I use a pedal. Channel three blows, IMHO.

Maybe someday I'll trade my Nomad if I find a one sound amp that has the Nomad's channel two modern nailed. And when I do, I'll lose money on the deal. For now, I have more options than I need. Still, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!

I actually been blown away from amps I have tried at GC. But as we all know they treat their ****...well like ...****...out of all the amps I have bought from GC mesa-wise have all been special order. Also I seen a lot of people complaining about certain amps not being that good, or finding their ideal tone. Personally, I kinda like having an amp that I have to spend hours with to understand/find my tone. It feels more personal.

cvansickle said:

...The best you can hope for from any amp is one great sound, and maybe one other usuable sound...

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I think the above statement is true, except that we settle for usable sounds because we keep pushing an amp farther and farther along until we just love that certain thing it does when everything is just SO.
Then anything else is dropping back and punting, because we've been to the mountain top.
What we need are two full separate rigs, guitars and all.

what kind of guitar are you plugging in with?

i've had a vastly different experience with Mesa's at GC's. i'm always impressed, and will generally noodle until someone tells me it's closing time. of the several varieties i've had the opportunity to try, the only one that didn't really do it for me was the triple rec, because it was just too damned loud :lol:

Keep in mind that my Guitar Center has ONLY used Mesa's. They rarely get current production models as trade-ins..

wildealien said:

what kind of guitar are you plugging in with?

i've had a vastly different experience with Mesa's at GC's. i'm always impressed, and will generally noodle until someone tells me it's closing time. of the several varieties i've had the opportunity to try, the only one that didn't really do it for me was the triple rec, because it was just too damned loud :lol:

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1) I think another thing about Mesa amps is that alot of them sound better the louder you crank them and other amps don't necessairly need to be cranked to sound good so you really don't get much of a chance to crank them (plus most people probably use mesa's for a while before trading them in and the tubes are old).

2) Some amps sound GREAT by their-self, but throw them in a band mix and they get lost. It Think that Mesa Boogies were made to cut through the mix and run with a full band and so they sometimes sound almost "Naked" when played alone, but add a band to the mix and they start shinning.

I know what you mean though, I've played several Boogies at a local store and they don't sound like I've heard them before or even sound like mine at home.

1) I think another thing about Mesa amps is that alot of them sound better the louder you crank them and other amps don't necessairly need to be cranked to sound good so you really don't get much of a chance to crank them (plus most people probably use mesa's for a while before trading them in and the tubes are old).

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Tele has it right. Mesa's need to be turned up a little to shine. My DC-3 sounds really good at bedroom levels, but lacks some sparkle. When I crank it, the amp really shines and becomes the wonder that it is.


I had an early Marshall JMP in my shop last weekend. 100 watt, Master Volume, supposed tone monster. I thought it sounded like **** with my favorite Strat. Then, I cranked the Master to 3 and the Pre to 9. Wow, the amp became a totally different animal. The sound was less thin & harsh, and very thick and harmonically rich.




Old tubes, the pressure of playing in public, idiots working at the stores, idiots selling the amps to the store, etc.

FWIW: I had a Bedrock 621 1x12 combo for a while. The Clean channel was beautiful, with just the right amount of breakup. The Lead channel sounded thin to me, no matter what I did to the amp, or how loud it was. The Mesa DC series kills the Bedrock, hands down.

The ROV II is a great amp too. I wish I still had mine. Very versatile.

If you judge an amp by playing trade ins or consignment, you might be selling the amp short. I had purchased both my F-50 and my Road King, as well as my Blues Jr. used and it made a world of difference with a new set of tubes.

I understand what therazmeister is saying about trying out used ones at a store. It's not just GC. It's like buying a used car, you just don't know what they've gone through before they got back there. There are a whole bunch of things that could've happened to the amps before their owners became disenchanted with them. There could be intermittent shorts, blown diodes, spilled beer, getting caught in the rain, general misuse, having loaned it to a "buddy", or any one of a number of horrible things that have happened that aren't condusive to good amp behavior.

I've been pretty lucky with only having to put in fresh tubes, so far.

Brewski....the thing that ALWAYS catches my attention is that the amps are dingy, dirty, sometimes missing knobs.. To me the amps usually sound like how they look. Why would they even bother putting them on the sales floor when they look like that? Even a used car salesman fixes up what he can before he puts it on the lot. The ROV combo I purchased was in near mint condition (one of the few). The guys thought it was only a year old until I informed them that the series 1 are all at least from 2001 and before (this was a 1999). The Bedrock was immaculate for a 10 year old amp and as far as a thin lead sound????....this thing was beef heaven.

Brewski said:

If you judge an amp by playing trade ins or consignment, you might be selling the amp short. I had purchased both my F-50 and my Road King, as well as my Blues Jr. used and it made a world of difference with a new set of tubes.

I understand what therazmeister is saying about trying out used ones at a store. It's not just GC. It's like buying a used car, you just don't know what they've gone through before they got back there. There are a whole bunch of things that could've happened to the amps before their owners became disenchanted with them. There could be intermittent shorts, blown diodes, spilled beer, getting caught in the rain, general misuse, having loaned it to a "buddy", or any one of a number of horrible things that have happened that aren't condusive to good amp behavior.

I've been pretty lucky with only having to put in fresh tubes, so far.

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I agree with you. I've seen some real rats out there. If I see that they are torn up or banged up with missing knobs, it tells me that whoever had it before didn't give a crap about it, and I steer clear of it.

As far as the store cleaning them up, I guess that it would take time and effort to do that. If it's a consignment amp, I don't think that they really care. Maybe it's a way for them to have people look at the amps with disdain and just buy a new one or possibly it's thought to be stylish by presenting a distressed amp. Fender charges extra for the "relic" look. I don't know. I hear what you're saying, though.

I had a mid seventies Yamaha amp for years, and gave it to my buddy for his kids to use. I spent a good half an hour cleaning the dust off and it looked great. No tears, no dings, or knobs missing. I really try to take care of my stuff. It went over to his house, got put in the garage, and the neighbors dog came in and pissed on it. It's got about an eight inch of dust on it. It sort of made my stomach turn when I saw it. All those years of taking care of it went out the window in just a short period.

Music stores can be some interesting places. Especially Guitar Centers. I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a GC and heard some yutz blasting out this horrible, shrill, mushy, farty, out-of-tune, turd of a sound, trying so desperately to either impress or piss off everyone in the store, only to find them plugged into the same amp I have at home. I always laugh and think "what the hell did you do to such a nice amp to make it sound SO BAD!!!" Everyone always says that Boogies are so hard to dial in. I don't see what the big deal is. I've played through a number of Boogies, Marshalls, Fenders, Vox's, etc., over the years and I find Boogies no harder to tweak than any other amp. I mean ****, just turn the knobs and listen (That's a big one for some people) to how each one affects the sound. Like my Dad says, "Some people can even **** up a wet dream". The older I get the more and more I see that is VERY true in the world arround us. I am always amazed at how some people can destroy just about anything.

TheRazMeister said:

Brewski....the thing that ALWAYS catches my attention is that the amps are dingy, dirty, sometimes missing knobs.. To me the amps usually sound like how they look. Why would they even bother putting them on the sales floor when they look like that? Even a used car salesman fixes up what he can before he puts it on the lot. The ROV combo I purchased was in near mint condition (one of the few). The guys thought it was only a year old until I informed them that the series 1 are all at least from 2001 and before (this was a 1999). The Bedrock was immaculate for a 10 year old amp and as far as a thin lead sound????....this thing was beef heaven.

Brewski said:

If you judge an amp by playing trade ins or consignment, you might be selling the amp short. I had purchased both my F-50 and my Road King, as well as my Blues Jr. used and it made a world of difference with a new set of tubes.

I understand what therazmeister is saying about trying out used ones at a store. It's not just GC. It's like buying a used car, you just don't know what they've gone through before they got back there. There are a whole bunch of things that could've happened to the amps before their owners became disenchanted with them. There could be intermittent shorts, blown diodes, spilled beer, getting caught in the rain, general misuse, having loaned it to a "buddy", or any one of a number of horrible things that have happened that aren't condusive to good amp behavior.

I've been pretty lucky with only having to put in fresh tubes, so far.

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steering clear of worn looking amps, dusty, missing knobs is true to an extent. when i bought my dual rec, it had a replaced vylil (its lieka dark green rather than teh factory black) and even it was all scuffed and ripped in a few places. But ive never had any problems whatso ever with it and it sound absolulty immaculate. Although my kbos are all still in tact thankfully. I persoanlly love how my vynil is all torn up and rough looking. gives my amp some balls

OneMoreAugust said:

I've played those Crate V series...30, 15 and 5. They sound great!! Good lil amp for those natural warm blues tones. I think sometimes that Mesa has slowly wandered away from that good warm tube tone. Don't get me wrong, the high watt, high gain Mesa crunch is uncomparable, but there are so many great sounds from those little low watt amps that you just can't get w/ a new Mesa...

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I used to own a VC30 and I get laughed at when I say that it was the best sounding amp I've ever owned or heard...I regret selling it and am always scouring the used amp sections for one that is in good shape. however I play a 2 x 12 roadster now and I coudn't be happier with the versatility of my current setup