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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:16 pm 
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Mark II
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I'd like to know exactly the Dual Rectifier history :? .. Differences between versions, years of production...sound differences. Your help is really appreciated & needed... :o

Thanks in advance to you you all!!


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 Post subject: Dual recto history
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Please watch this website , I think it could be interesting :


http://www.tubefreak.com/mesa.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:58 pm 
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Mark II
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Interesting!....but nothing about the Recto history....


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:23 am 
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Well, I'll offer what I can, but I dont claim to be an expert on this..

Its pretty simple, the 2ch models are the better ones. Clearer and tighter : )

They also came with different tubes,
some people swear the first couple hundred were fantastic and the rest sucked, then again some people think the 3ch sounds even better than the 2ch models..

Some have accused the DR of being a Soldano rip off. I dont recall why exactly, but Ive read this and heard it more of a few times. If I recall its because of some odd value or what not that appeared in the Recto that had never been done before save the Soldano SLO.

odd balls worth noting
- the inverted DR (chrome chasis, and black face plate)
- the "ractifier" or rackmount DR

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:09 am 
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Mark II
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thank you...first of all...
I know there is something about the Solo Boost, something about the Powercord and...something about the "racktifier"


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:15 pm 
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no soul wrote:
Some have accused the DR of being a Soldano rip off. I dont recall why exactly, but Ive read this and heard it more of a few times. If I recall its because of some odd value or what not that appeared in the Recto that had never been done before save the Soldano SLO.


When Soldano was still modding Marshall's one of his standard mods was a gain mod, and he used to build in a circuit called a cathode follower.

Basically, ALL high gain amps use a cathode follower.....so essentially all high gain amps are ripping off Soldano's circuit.....which is why all high gain amps basically have the same general tone, and mostly differ through feel and voicing.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:19 pm 
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snowman3000 wrote:
thank you...first of all...
I know there is something about the Solo Boost, something about the Powercord and...something about the "racktifier"


I believe the Rectifier was the first amp to feature a solo boost that boosted the master output.....

The Ractifier was Dual Recto is a different chassis. Some people claim that it sounds better due to the time and care they had to spend to fit everything into such a small space. I think that like many other things they simply sound better because we're told they're supposed to sound better and we believe it......on the other hand Mesa is continually modifying their circuits to improve upon tone and design, so maybe there's some truth if it had recieved a circuit mod that other Duals didn't yet have at the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:48 am 
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Mark I

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All high gain amps have a cathode follower? What about the mark II? Pretty much the first high gain amp AFAIK?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:09 pm 
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Mark III

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yea even though the SLO had the cathode follower, mesa still invented cascading high gain so i could never consider any mesa a SLO rip off.

what years were they made without the global output or something or other, no soul i think you were saying something about those in another post.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:08 pm 
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neantir wrote:
All high gain amps have a cathode follower? What about the mark II? Pretty much the first high gain amp AFAIK?



Sorry, my mistake....

.....all modern high gain amps (ie, Recto, SLO, Ubershall, Cobra, VH-4, JCM-2000, ect) use a cathode follower.

Vintage style high gain amps (MkII-MkIV) don't.....and originally Randall Smith was against using them, but for some reason he changed his mind when building the Rectifier.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 pm 
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Mark III

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dylan7620 wrote:
yea even though the SLO had the cathode follower, mesa still invented cascading high gain so i could never consider any mesa a SLO rip off.

what years were they made without the global output or something or other, no soul i think you were saying something about those in another post.


Mesa may have came up with the whole cascading preamp design, but Randall, nor anyone else, found a way to do it the way Mike Soldano did it.

All of the Mark Series tone controls fall right after the input stage. Mesa didn't really rip off Soldano or anything. They just followed suit of everyone else that was wanting to get a piece of this new type of preamp design. Peavey actually copied the SLO's preamp circuit first with the 5150, but they didn't use a Cathode Follower in their variation of it.

As for the Historty of the Dual Rectifier...

1992 is the first year they were introduced. The first 250 or 500 had different transformers in them. They started using different trannies, which wasn't a huge factor, after that and made some minor revisions to the circuit, which resulted in what the Dual Rectifier was for the next 7 years. The 1993 to 2000 two channel models can be modified to sound very close to the very first versions with a few changes. Then the T-verb came out in about 1994 I believe. The three channel versions came out in August of 2000. Then the Road King hit stores a few years ago (I can't remember it was either late 2001 or 2002).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:19 pm 
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Mark III

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[quote="Dale B
As for the Historty of the Dual Rectifier...

1992 is the first year they were introduced. The first 250 or 500 had different transformers in them. They started using different trannies, which wasn't a huge factor, after that and made some minor revisions to the circuit, which resulted in what the Dual Rectifier was for the next 7 years. The 1993 to 2000 two channel models can be modified to sound very close to the very first versions with a few changes.[/quote]

do you what type of transformers did they have in them? what would i have to do to mod say a 95 to orginal specs?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:16 pm 
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Mark III

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dylan7620 wrote:
[quote="Dale B
As for the Historty of the Dual Rectifier...

1992 is the first year they were introduced. The first 250 or 500 had different transformers in them. They started using different trannies, which wasn't a huge factor, after that and made some minor revisions to the circuit, which resulted in what the Dual Rectifier was for the next 7 years. The 1993 to 2000 two channel models can be modified to sound very close to the very first versions with a few changes.


do you what type of transformers did they have in them? what would i have to do to mod say a 95 to orginal specs?[/quote]

I can't recall what type of transformers were in them and as far as the modifications are concerned.... Call up Trace Allen Davis @ Voodoo Amps.... www.voodooamps.com . I think I remember him saying that it's mainly just swapping out anywhere between 3 to 5 cap/resistor values in the amp. It could be a little more or it could be a little less.

Dale

Dale


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:09 pm 
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As of 4/92 there were 3 revisions to the circuit. They are RF-1A,1B and 1C. By 5/93 Mesa was up to revision RF-1F. In typical Mesa fashion, they prototyped the product on the consumer. The first 500 had used different OT's and PT's. For someone to say there is no difference, I disagree unless you own one of those 500. They have attack like a pack of wolves. The Modern channel is ferocious and the Vintage channel is very sweet to modern high gain depending on the EQ settings. The Vintage channel has a sweet spot where the gain compresses to the most musical vowel like voice, yet could shred with a bit more Treble.
I have a Chrome Chassis 4/92 PCB 1992 RF-1C # 023X with a final Mike B. tech in 6/92. I have chosen to keep this over any other two channel and three channel. IMHO, my new Road King is still a bit different in how it sounds compared to the DR 023X. I guess you would have to be there and do a side by side, but only 500 people in the world can do this. This amp actually hangs with the SLO 100. Schematic wise, these amps are almost identical with a few exceptions, yet sound different. In a side by side with my 1993 SLO 100 it falls a bit short only in the overall clarity. I beleive this is due to the Bass response being higher in the DR.
The SLO has to have the Master above 4-5 to really come alive, but when it does it is in a class by itself.

Not all of the first 500 had the chrome chassis. By the end of the 400's I have seen 2 with the normal black chassis and chrome diamond plate.

The transformers were both made by Schumacher.

The Racktifiers sound no different and were wired the same way the heads were. They are identical in every way except the size of the chassis and the position of the on/off and standby switch. DR's do not suffer from and other anomolies like RF interference, so what difference would a 1/4 inch less in wiring make?

With the George Lynch mystique about the first 500 and how he looks for a secret marking and the Racktifer mystique abuzz in the Rectifier world, I tend to think that hearing and seeing is believing.

The schematic on the Tubefreak site does not fully apply to the first 250.
I had to have Mesa get me one, and it was hand drawn and applied only to the input to the V1A and how it switched from clean to vintage and the different vaule of resitors and capacitors in the circuit.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:52 pm 
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Mark III

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wow, thanks for all the info.... so what ur sayin in layman terms is im probably never going to be able to get my hands on one of those first 500 huh? :roll:

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