Tried an Express 5:50 and 5:25... disappointed

The Boogie Board

Help Support The Boogie Board:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

darren

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
53
Reaction score
0
I'm a big Mesa/Boogie fan, and i've been looking for a small, versatile combo for home use, small gigs and recording for some time now. My dream amp is a Roadster 1x12 combo, but it's a little cumbersome and a little out of my price range, so i've been trying pretty much everything else... Nomads, F-series, and now the Express series.

I once rented a Nomad 1x12 and found its clean and crunch sounds to be good, but i couldn't get a satisfying high-gain rhythm sound out of it, no matter what i tried. I had the same experience with the F-50 combo.

But for some reason, the F-30 really hit a sweet spot for me. Being primarily a rhythm player in a band that covers a lot of musical ground from atmospheric/ambient to full-blown metal chugging, i have a need for at least three core sounds: Clean, a nice percussive Crunch sound, and a full-blown ROAR. The F-30 nailed all three for me quite nicely. But before i could save up for one, Mesa discontinued them and brought out the Express series.

On paper, the specs for the Express series (four modes, two channels with switchable/adjustable Contour on both channels) sounded like a perfect evolution from the F-series. I was really pleased when The Guitar Shop in Port Credit got in a whole bunch of the new amps a couple of months ago, so i sat down with an Express 5:50 to try it out.

Since i was in a relatively small store and sitting very close to the amp, i spent most of my time in the 5-watt mode. This is a great feature, which i really appreciated. The clean channel was just beautiful. Crystal clear, with those "glassy" overtones, with lush reverb and responsive tone controls. Turning up the gain pushed into grittty SRV territory, and even more grungy when the "crunch" mode was engaged. Turning on the Contour gave a bit more girth, but it didn't seem as dramatic as the Contour mode on the F-30.

Channel 2 was a bit of a mixed bag. I found i could dial in some nice "liquid" singing lead tones, but found the distortion sounds to be completely lacking for playing high-gain rhythm. The bottom end was flabby and poorly defined, and no matter what i did, i could not get a nice, tight, percussive "chunk" sound for palm-muted chords. And this is where my main disappointment lies. If an amp can't do that, it's useless to me, no matter how good the other channels are.

On an F-30, when i set Channel 2 so it's purring along in a nice rhythm grind, kicking in the Contour mode pushes it over the top just enough to get me near Recto territory. Nice girth and punch, with a percussive, tight low end. I was expecting the same behavior from the Express series, but found that it just didn't have the "juice". The contour mode seems a lot less dramatic on these new amps than on the F-series, and the ability to dial it back seems even more odd. If anything, with a variable control on the Contour mode, i expected it to be voiced even more extreme than the F-series' Contour control. I found just the opposite: It was voiced more conservatively, and dialing it back, it might as well not been there at all.

The other day, i tried the 5:25, and found very similar results. After about 10 minutes of knob-twiddling, i gave up in frustration. My findings were confirmed by the fact that they also had an F-30 in stock, and was able to dial in awesome tones in just a few seconds.

In conclusion, while i found that the cleans and "grit" sounds in the Express amps are a great evolution from the F-series, and i find the amp seems to cover more ground in the low- to mid-gain territory, but in the process, Mesa has sacrificed the high-gain rhythm sounds. It'll "sing", but it won't "chug".

I really hope the Express amps will be revised so they cover the kind of range that the F-series did (especially the F-30... that little thing had serious magic in that EL-84 power section) and make the Contour mode much more dramatic than its current voicing.

I really wanted to like these amps, but they left me wanting more.
 
I hear you, and agree, but I did buy the 5:25

I was a big fan of the F-30, but did not own one
but would plug in when I wanted high gain at a GC or wherever

Asked a Mesa rep why it was being discontinued, and he said
it's considered a one trick pony, too much gain for most

so I do believe the express was to tone it down a little
and add a bunch of features, and the 5 watt switch, and
adjustable contour are quite nice

but it is missin something if you really liked to crank the
gain on an F-30
However, the 5:25 comes with a 10 inch speaker
plugging into a 12 inch cab does open another dimension

the F-30 did have its' own charachter though

and for some reason, while I like the 5:25, the 5:50
did not float my boat. I bought a nicely marked down
F-50, which could easily blow my windows out, and has
a superb clean

cheers
 
Darren, you are not alone..I ended up with the Rectoverb because the F series and the Nomads, etc could not get a great high gain tone. The F50 is wonderful for just about everything else and I also experienced the F30 being a better gain amp than the F50.

darren said:
I'm a big Mesa/Boogie fan, and i've been looking for a small, versatile combo for home use, small gigs and recording for some time now. My dream amp is a Roadster 1x12 combo, but it's a little cumbersome and a little out of my price range, so i've been trying pretty much everything else... Nomads, F-series, and now the Express series.

I once rented a Nomad 1x12 and found its clean and crunch sounds to be good, but i couldn't get a satisfying high-gain rhythm sound out of it, no matter what i tried. I had the same experience with the F-50 combo.

But for some reason, the F-30 really hit a sweet spot for me. Being primarily a rhythm player in a band that covers a lot of musical ground from atmospheric/ambient to full-blown metal chugging, i have a need for at least three core sounds: Clean, a nice percussive Crunch sound, and a full-blown ROAR. The F-30 nailed all three for me quite nicely. But before i could save up for one, Mesa discontinued them and brought out the Express series.

On paper, the specs for the Express series (four modes, two channels with switchable/adjustable Contour on both channels) sounded like a perfect evolution from the F-series. I was really pleased when The Guitar Shop in Port Credit got in a whole bunch of the new amps a couple of months ago, so i sat down with an Express 5:50 to try it out.

Since i was in a relatively small store and sitting very close to the amp, i spent most of my time in the 5-watt mode. This is a great feature, which i really appreciated. The clean channel was just beautiful. Crystal clear, with those "glassy" overtones, with lush reverb and responsive tone controls. Turning up the gain pushed into grittty SRV territory, and even more grungy when the "crunch" mode was engaged. Turning on the Contour gave a bit more girth, but it didn't seem as dramatic as the Contour mode on the F-30.

Channel 2 was a bit of a mixed bag. I found i could dial in some nice "liquid" singing lead tones, but found the distortion sounds to be completely lacking for playing high-gain rhythm. The bottom end was flabby and poorly defined, and no matter what i did, i could not get a nice, tight, percussive "chunk" sound for palm-muted chords. And this is where my main disappointment lies. If an amp can't do that, it's useless to me, no matter how good the other channels are.

On an F-30, when i set Channel 2 so it's purring along in a nice rhythm grind, kicking in the Contour mode pushes it over the top just enough to get me near Recto territory. Nice girth and punch, with a percussive, tight low end. I was expecting the same behavior from the Express series, but found that it just didn't have the "juice". The contour mode seems a lot less dramatic on these new amps than on the F-series, and the ability to dial it back seems even more odd. If anything, with a variable control on the Contour mode, i expected it to be voiced even more extreme than the F-series' Contour control. I found just the opposite: It was voiced more conservatively, and dialing it back, it might as well not been there at all.

The other day, i tried the 5:25, and found very similar results. After about 10 minutes of knob-twiddling, i gave up in frustration. My findings were confirmed by the fact that they also had an F-30 in stock, and was able to dial in awesome tones in just a few seconds.

In conclusion, while i found that the cleans and "grit" sounds in the Express amps are a great evolution from the F-series, and i find the amp seems to cover more ground in the low- to mid-gain territory, but in the process, Mesa has sacrificed the high-gain rhythm sounds. It'll "sing", but it won't "chug".

I really hope the Express amps will be revised so they cover the kind of range that the F-series did (especially the F-30... that little thing had serious magic in that EL-84 power section) and make the Contour mode much more dramatic than its current voicing.

I really wanted to like these amps, but they left me wanting more.
 
I don't think you have said anything that has not already been said in the magazine reviews and by several on this forum ... The Express Series does not produce the typical Mesa High gain sound and is not ideal for heavy metal or very high distortion. Since I mostly use the clean mode, with some crunch and blues, my 5:50 2X12 works perfect for me. That's why they make vanilla and chocolate. Mesa has many other choices for you.
 
Darren,

You and I are on the EXACT same page as far as these amps it seems.

I bought the Express going in thinking EXACTLY like you did. Thinking it would be an evolution in the other direction. After a week of trying to love it I took it back. The lack of "Chunk" or IMO "attack" was the deal breaker.

They had a used F-50 at the store so I took that. MUCH better, but still not quite what I was looking for. I played a Mark IV the other week and took it home with me and have been loving it ever since! The F-50 is for sale because I can't afford to keep it, and is somewhat redundant now given its lineage to the mark series.

IMO for what I (And it seems you do) the F-series are superior amps to the Express. Though for those guys that do more blues and max out at hard rock the express is probably an improvement.

That's why there's 31 flavors! :)

I've heard most people prefer the Mark IV's in heads vs. combos (Both for tone and weight issues. I got the short head) so if you don't MIND bringing a cab with you and are good at dialing things in I'd seriously check one out. Who knows, you might love the combo too! They seem to go cheaper for some reason which is odd IMO.

It's a lot more dough though (Sometimes you can find a deal used), so perhaps the F-30 is better for you? Either way good luck man!
 
I'm currently running a BOSS GT-6 into a Crate PowerBlock (great little power amp!) driving a Mesa Thiele 1x12 with an EVM-12L speaker. I'm used to a lot of versatility, but sometimes i want to simplify my setup and just plug straight into an amp with a couple of pedals.

The Thiele kicks ***. I'd love to hear it hooked up to an F-30 or a Mark IV. I used to have a Genz Benz G-Flex 212, which was a monster, but i've downsized to a "mini monster" for ease of transport. I'm looking for a combo so i can have a small, portable, single package that i can just toss in the car and go out to jam, and if need be, i can hook it up to my Thiele for a mini-stack. (I love the sound of closed-back cabs, which is why the Roadster is the main object of my lust.)

The F-30 is a great little amp. I'm surprised it was described as having "too much gain" for most people. I thought it covered a very nice range. You could get it to purr if you wanted to, but it could get really heavy if pushed.

I do hope to one day pick up a used F-30 or maybe a Mark IV if i really scrape together some funds.
 
Went into GC today for some strings. Noone in the store and they were getting their Mesa shipment. A brand new Ace and 5:50. Loved the Ace and REALLY loved the 5:50. I'm GASing.
 
Cud...what did you like about the 5:50? I just watched a GuitarOne gear demo and came away very umimpressed...at least with the gain tones. The cleans were nice but the overdrive stuff left me scratching my head as to why anyone would want one of these, especially the 5:25. It sounded thin and weak. I'm hoping it's just a matter of the demo-er not having a clue. Although Tommy Inkila (who has some wonderful F50 clips) mentioned he thought they missed the boat on these amps...

CudBucket said:
Went into GC today for some strings. Noone in the store and they were getting their Mesa shipment. A brand new Ace and 5:50. Loved the Ace and REALLY loved the 5:50. I'm GASing.
 
Personally, i thought the F-30 sounded WAY better than the F-50. But tone is very subjective.
 
I really don't understand your criticisms of the Express 5:50. It's probably THE most versatile tube amp on the market. So it doesn't do a Recto tone. So put a pedal in front if it and it'll sound equally as good as a Dual Rectifier high gain tone. But it sounds better than clean & crunch than any other Mesa amp and no pedal will fix that. The Express is not a one trick pony. If that's all you want from an amp - just one classic tone - then look elsewhere. It's versatility is exactly what makes the 5:50 so good IMHO
 
TheRazMeister said:
Cud...what did you like about the 5:50? I just watched a GuitarOne gear demo and came away very umimpressed...at least with the gain tones. The cleans were nice but the overdrive stuff left me scratching my head as to why anyone would want one of these, especially the 5:25. It sounded thin and weak. I'm hoping it's just a matter of the demo-er not having a clue. Although Tommy Inkila (who has some wonderful F50 clips) mentioned he thought they missed the boat on these amps...

CudBucket said:
Went into GC today for some strings. Noone in the store and they were getting their Mesa shipment. A brand new Ace and 5:50. Loved the Ace and REALLY loved the 5:50. I'm GASing.

The thing that jumped out at me was how fat it's tone was. Very touch sensitive. I didn't try any clean tones. I just love the distortion too. I found the sound to be very tight and punchy. Just alot of fun to play. I played the 2x12 combo.
 
Newy..please be careful about absolutes like "any other Mesa" Tone is subjective and what you hear may not be the same as what someone else hears. An example is a former rythym player we had was telling me how his Nomad combo had the most incredible tone...To my ears it wasn't as smooth or as pleasant as my Crate V32 and I certainly wouldn't have ever considered it in the same league as my ROV combo.

I'll be honest in that I came away not terribly impressed with the 5:50, although I'm a humbucker guy and was playing a Strat through it. So I'm willing to give it another chance. :)

Newysurfer said:
I really don't understand your criticisms of the Express 5:50. It's probably THE most versatile tube amp on the market. So it doesn't do a Recto tone. So put a pedal in front if it and it'll sound equally as good as a Dual Rectifier high gain tone. But it sounds better than clean & crunch than any other Mesa amp and no pedal will fix that. The Express is not a one trick pony. If that's all you want from an amp - just one classic tone - then look elsewhere. It's versatility is exactly what makes the 5:50 so good IMHO
 
The 5:25 I had was perfect for everything except high-gain-sizzle and fizziness that the rectifiers, mark series, and F series are known for. It had pristine cleans ala Lone Star, thick and warm reverb, and decent classic rock crunch and 90s grunge. For $1049 you just simply can't get a more versatile tube amp thats portable too. With the right preamp pedal you could turn it into a high gain sizzling amp. The main reason I got rid of mine was to upgrade to the Road King which if you have the $2499 to spare is THE amp of amps to have.

Sorry to hear some are disappointed with the Express series. Save your pennies kiddies and make the jump to either a Stilleto, DR, MK series, Roadster, or RK. The money is well spent on any Mesa product and you'll never lay awake at night wondering what you could have gotten.
 
I played a 5:50 1X12 next to a F-50 1X12 this weekend and I felt as though it was a coin toss. The F-50 trounced the Express in the heavy gain thumping, kick in the contour and it kills it even more. The 5:50 had a more "complex" clean tone and the blues channel was realy nice. I liked the flexibility of the adjustable contour and the reverb was on par with the last Lonestar I played. The Express has many more tonal posibilities and the 5-watt setting is nice.

I ended up liking both but for the great deals that being offered on the F-50 it would be hard to pass one up if I was in the market.
 
Newysurfer said:
I really don't understand your criticisms of the Express 5:50. It's probably THE most versatile tube amp on the market.
My criticisms are based on my experience that the F-30 produces the tones i'm looking for, and the Express 5:25 and 5:50 do not. Simple as that.

Mesa discontinued a line of amps that i liked a lot and "replaced" them with a line of amps that don't suit my purpose.

Yes, the Express series are great amps for low- to mid-gain tones, and tremendously versatile within that range. But they don't do high-gain tones very well, in my opinion, and for me, that's just not versatile enough.
 
darren said:
Newysurfer said:
I really don't understand your criticisms of the Express 5:50. It's probably THE most versatile tube amp on the market.
My criticisms are based on my experience that the F-30 produces the tones i'm looking for, and the Express 5:25 and 5:50 do not. Simple as that.

Mesa discontinued a line of amps that i liked a lot and "replaced" them with a line of amps that don't suit my purpose.

Yes, the Express series are great amps for low- to mid-gain tones, and tremendously versatile within that range. But they don't do high-gain tones very well, in my opinion, and for me, that's just not versatile enough.

Hmm. I'm a high-gain nut and felt with a closed cab, an Express head would do high gain without issue.
 
CudBucket said:
darren said:
Newysurfer said:
I really don't understand your criticisms of the Express 5:50. It's probably THE most versatile tube amp on the market.
My criticisms are based on my experience that the F-30 produces the tones i'm looking for, and the Express 5:25 and 5:50 do not. Simple as that.

Mesa discontinued a line of amps that i liked a lot and "replaced" them with a line of amps that don't suit my purpose.

Yes, the Express series are great amps for low- to mid-gain tones, and tremendously versatile within that range. But they don't do high-gain tones very well, in my opinion, and for me, that's just not versatile enough.

Hmm. I'm a high-gain nut and felt with a closed cab, an Express head would do high gain without issue.

You're partially right there. I've plugged both the 5:25 and 5:50 into a 2x12 recto and it is 'closer.' The contour knob maxed will come close, but to my ears the types of high-gain seem more Mark like than Rectifier.
 
I have an Express 5:50 and when cranked it produces plenty of gain for anything except metal. Add my 2x12 or 4x12 cabs on and I get a heavier tone. If you wanna do metal, nu-metal etc then put a stomp pedal in front of it. What's the prob. Are you guys saying you don't ever use a pedal for anything ??

To do metal properly you also need the right guitar - like an Ibanez or an ESP. Even my SG won't do it quite right when I've plugged into a Dual Rectifier. Like any tube amp you've got to crank the gain and master to get the full tube saturation. Have you guys done that with the Express 5:50 or are you just moaning cause it doesn't sound like a Dual Rectifier or an F30 ??

Also, do you guys ever use anything other than a high gain metal tone ?? If you did you wouldn't be very pleased with clean/crunch tones out of most Mesa amps, including the F30. There's no one amp that does every single tone better than anything else - never will be. But the Express comes as close as I've ever heard :)
 
Well, here's the thing.

I tried the Express 5:50 and 5:25 pretty much back-to-back against an F-30. The Express amps could do a singing "liquid" high-gain lead tone nicely, but nothing i did could get it to produce that tight, fast, percussive "chunk" sound for high-gain rhythm. The F-30 could do that easily Channel 2, and in spades with the Contour kicked in. This is all with the same guitar.

Personally, if i'm dropping over a grand on an amp, i want it to have the core tones i'm looking for, without having to use a pedal.

I'm not saying the Express series are bad amps at all. I think Mesa did a tremendous job in giving them a lot of tonal versatility within a defined range. I really liked the sound of all four modes. It's just that the range Mesa defined for them doesn't extend as far into high-gain territory as the F-series covered for a rhythm player, and i happen to use that high end of the gain spectrum fairly regularly, which is why i was disappointed that they're slightly more limiting in that regard.

If i only used a lot of gain for playing leads, i'd probably be very happy with the Express. But i'm primarily a rhythm player, and while i found the modes available on the Express amps to be really cool, they were all missing that "thump" i was able to get out of the F-30. Maybe a closed-back cab would help. But i really want a combo. (I wish i knew why there aren't more closed-back combos on the market.)
 
Back
Top