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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:49 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3059
Location: North Carolina
V30's and other speakers that may be similar have a beaming effect. If you are directly in front of the cabinet (most people do this when they practice or are not in a band setting) you end up being directly in front of the cab and amp, Standing or sitting. what every your preference. Doing this you get the full treble range. Perhaps the Vertical cab has more low end displacement so it will fill the room much better than say the OS Recto slant front 412. I find the tone of the V30 quiet pleasing if I am not directly in front of the cabinet. Off to one side I can hear the full tone of the speaker vs being in the central beam of top end. The beam of the V30 is definitely more pronounced at its center. Even the EV has this sort of thing happening but not as dramatic as it does not have a fabric dust cap like the Celestion speakers. Not sure if the dust cap or voice coil size has much to do with the beam effect. Just thought I would share this... For some time I was not all that impressed with the V30 speaker or any Celestion product. Was all out for EVs and that goes back to 1989 when I got my first exposure to a Mesa EVM12L Black Shadow in a Mark III combo. That has changed over the years so I now like the V30 speaker. Guess it grew on me. Blame it on the Royal Atlantic as I found that amp worked the best with the V30 in a closed back format. TC-50, TC-100 is quite similar but just a little different. Mesa vertical 212 seems to be ideal, and not just with the TC series. Mark V, well that amp can be brutal especially in the top end on CH3. There is a simple fix for that if you get the ice pick (just use a JAN/Philips 12AT7 in V4 and all is well). JP-2C is a darker version, similar to the Mark III (as a reference only). Love it with the Vertical 212, or the OS Recto I have loaded with EVM12L black label speakers. I did try some different speakers in the horizontal 212 just for fun as I am not really using that cab. V30 were ideal, did not really care much for Celestion Cream 90W in that cab. Have a pair I tried in the RA100 combo. Best to combine an alnico with ceramic if going the 212 route but in that case the Cream 90W and Creamback H75 works great together in open back form. My days have ended for the ALNICO speaker for what I do, I much prefer the ceramic magnets. Nothing wrong with a good set of ALNICO drivers, but I found it saturates too much under high gain (distortion) that it tends to loose its edge and definition when pushed hard. For hard distortion, ceramics will be much better.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:31 am 
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Mark III
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Southwest Michigan
I generally prefer to stand or sit off axis from the cab, regardless of the amp because of the beaming effect. I need to repair my single 12 with my EVM speaker. Rattled the screws right out of place. I may have to resort to some thread locker, lol!

That massive thread on the Mark V Saturation Mod was the sole reason I bought my V last year. With an entire new set of tubes and some deep cleaning of the tube sockets, it's now my amp of choice for one of my bands, regardless of venue size. Will be using it this Saturday at another outdoor gig - supposed to be 94 and humid....yuck.

My Redback must now be fully broken in. I had to remove it from the deep cube shaped cab I had it in to a more traditional, albeit vintage style, open back cab. The speaker continues to impress me more and more with each use.

But the combo I have in my vertical 2x12 is definitely the sonic footprint I want with the TC50. It's like a turbo charged vintage tone that just sings with every note. The bottom end is thick without being muddy and the highs cut through without piercing my ear drums. The mids are pronounced - think late 70s, early 80s Scorpions or Iron Maiden, but even more distortion. Toggling to Tight mode on channel 3 puts every note and chord in your face, but in a pleasing way.

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TC-50, Mark V, Electra Dyne, Road King I
Mostly Fenders with Duncans
Celestion, Eminence, EVM, and WGS speakers


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:23 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3059
Location: North Carolina
Odd, I have tried other speakers in my Horizontal 212 cab and just cannot get past the V30 combination. I have a pair of Celestion Crème 90W speakers I wanted to try in the RA100 Combo since the open back cabinet does not complement the V30 as they tend to sound fizzy at reduced volume. 90W alnico just did not cut it in the Horizontal 212 cab, way too deep toned. Tried one with the Celestion Crèam back G12H75, still muddy. However the Alnico crème and the cream back in the RA100 combo sounded the best. Much better than the pair of creambacks. Thing with the Alnico is they get too saturated and mushy with higher output at higher gain settings. The ceramic of the cream back compensates such that it retains note definition and is much louder when paired with the alnico crème than is with the two creambacks or V30's. I have not tried the V30 blended with the Crème Alnico yet. I could drop in the EV and OTR in the combo but doubt it would fit with the provided studs. Have no intentions on removal of the factory screws.


As for using EV speakers, when front mounted, I used 1-1/2 inch long 10-24 socket head screws with locking nuts and several washers to keep the baffle board being crushed. The head of the screw seats into the holes on the EV, not all the way but close enough. Never had a screw come loose yet. For rear baffle mount, I do the same but with the washers on the grill side. I have painted some of those black so they do not reflect light. However in my OS Recto 412 I loaded EV speakers in, the glue joints did not hold up too well. the baffle board actually became loose. This was a Mesa cab mind you. It spent most of its time in storage between 2004 and 2012. I had restored it and now that cab is so tight it may have lost a bit of resonance but with the EV speaker, it does not matter as that cab is the beast for the heavy work. I was considering moving the one EV speaker out of the deep 1x12 cab and install it in the Mesa widebody open back cab so I can run the JP with it. The OTR that is in there now cuts the top end too much. Still in debate if I want to move the two OTR into the 412 with a pair of EV. I am still evaluating that idea.

I will have to check out the invader. Also my curiosity on the copperback speaker has me waiting for the sound samples and reviews. Not available yet. :(

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:29 am 
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Mark III
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Southwest Michigan
I've had my eye on the Neo Creamback for a while, but no real need for one yet. The sound clips I've heard sounded pretty good.

My EV is in a Carvin 1x12 tweed open back cab. I'm not sure I can actually remove the grill, but it definitely needs to come off. I can see one of the t-nuts dislodged itself and is now down at the bottom of the grill. I got the cab more for it's looks because of the oldies band I'm in. But, honestly, since running my V in tweed mode through the Redback, I may just have to move the EV to a different cab altogether. That combo with my V is pure heaven in the oldies group.

I wasn't all that thrilled with my vertical 2x12 until I matched the Invader with the V30. The lows became thicker and the highs became creamier. The midrange bump was almost too much, but I expect that to dissipate as the speaker breaks in. I have yet to try my GEQ pedal in the loop, but that's coming soon after I finish the pedal board I'm making - totally taking the "kitchen sink" approach to this one.

I definitely do not need any more new cabs. My basement is already starting to look like a museum, and I'm not using most of the gear. I still have a stack of speakers in boxes, not in use. As much as I would hate to part with anything, I kinda feel somewhat obligated to liquidate what I don't use so someone else can put things to use and enjoy them. Collecting dust seems like such a waste. But I know as soon as I sell something, I'll get an idea on where to use it and regret letting it go. First world problems, lol!

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TC-50, Mark V, Electra Dyne, Road King I
Mostly Fenders with Duncans
Celestion, Eminence, EVM, and WGS speakers


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:41 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3059
Location: North Carolina
I am a hoarder too. I have speaker boxes in the kitchen taking up space. They used to fill a closet in the spare bedroom. I was in a speaker test mode trying different speakers in the RA100 Combo or the Mark V combo. The V is done, no need to make any changes but once I put the spare speakers away, I will have an idea to try something else. What to do with them is the other question. Definitely want to try the redback with the RA100 and see what happens. If that works out, will have to get another pair in 16ohms vs the one I have as an 8 ohm. I still have the Crème alnico 90W 8 ohm speaker, should try that with the Redback and see how that goes. The RA combo is a tricky amp to find a good combination of speakers for. It has a narrow width to it compared to the horizontal 212 cab as well as it is not a full open back form. More of an oval football hole and an area to vent and cool the tubes. I may try to go with the V30's again as a bench mark and see how things change from there.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:32 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:39 am
Posts: 2
I think my prior post to this thread is about the fourth down. I went on a rant about mixing speakers with Greenbacks, etc. That was when I was using Marshall g12C's which I have since realized are a great but idealized Greenback that's more reminiscent of a mid-60's vibe that I just didn't feel like worked with the Tc-50 very well. The G12C's were super woody, and combined with all the mids that the TC throws at the speakers, it was like an over-kill mid frequency mess at high volumes.

Since then, I bought a quad of G12EVH's, which are the same re-branded speaker as a G12m Heritage at 25.00 less per speaker with the funky EVH magnet covers. I will simply state that when the master is set to 12:00 they rock with the TC.


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Mark III
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:45 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Southwest Michigan
I've read some good things about those EVH speakers as well.

I have another WGS Invader 50 on the way. I don't think I will keep both in my vertical recto cab, but I do want to try it just once...hell, twice or more if I like it. So far, though, the combo of the V30 and the Invader is definitely where it's at for me.

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TC-50, Mark V, Electra Dyne, Road King I
Mostly Fenders with Duncans
Celestion, Eminence, EVM, and WGS speakers


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