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 Post subject: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:23 am 
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Mark III
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Has anyone tried Greenbacks, or variants, with their TC series amp? I've been contemplating getting a WGS Invader. I confess I've never been too much of a fan of Greenbacks in general, but have heard some clips with other amps lately that are impacting my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Mark IV
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It may well depend on what type of music you play wether Greenbacks work for you. For classic rock I love greenbacks. Until I got some I was never able to nail the classic tones I heard on so many albums.

With my TC I run a 1x12 with a Creamback and a 2x12 with 1 cream back and 1 V30. I’ve been very happy with those...

I think perhaps people are scared off because they hear that the greenbacks have more highs than v30s and looser bass. Even though that’s true, the highs aren’t the kind that drill your ears. I find the V30 mids to are much more trouble to my ears.

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:53 pm
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Remembering that taste is subjective:

There are some older amps that, to me, only sound “right” with greenbacks... but doing a compare/contrast a few weeks ago with my TC-100, I found Greenbacks (g12m) thinner and a touch fizzy vs. Cannibas Rex and a Creamback mix of m65s and h75s.

The cabinets and configurations were not identical but were very close. And I’m not saying the greenbacks sounded bad, by the way, I was just surprised at how much better the other two speakers sounded to my ears... especially since I had gone in kind of in love with the greenback cabinet and was expecting it to blow the others away.

Moral of the story: trust your ears, not your memory of how great a different amp pushes a particular cabinet/speaker.


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:09 am 
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Bottle Rocket

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Hey, I can help you out with this. I'm huge on Greenbacks. I use Marshall G12c greenbacks that were modeled on Marshall's old 60's era greenback that they use as a reference speaker. This speaker was sent to Celestion to be re-engineered, and they used them in their Hendrix reissue cabs and Vintage Modern Cabs. They're fantastic sounding Greenbacks. When I want a slightly more 80's metal sound, I've thrown in a couple of 80's G12t75's, in an X pattern which sounds great with greenbacks and a Marshall also.

So--With the Tc-50 at band volumes, through my Vintage Modern 4x12, I felt like both of these configurations sucked. Notice all the official TC-50 vids are done through V30's? To make a long story short, through lots of experimentation, I ended up doing the Friedman Steve Stephens cab configuration of putting Greenbacks on top and v30's on the bottom, and it rocks like crazy. Since Greenbacks aren't very efficient speakers, but they have such a great upper mid sizzle, it'almost like they're putting tweeters on the top, and they produce they're own bass from just being pushed. The efficient V30's on the bottom produce the balls from being damn near twice as loud with lower mids which add a grind and just basically ground the whole thing. The overall effect is that the cab kicks serious ass while sounding pretty smooth and professional too. Cleans, crunch and all out distortion sound great.

The thing about the Greenbacks is that you're going to get a vintage vibe out of them no matter what, and at loud volumes, i just felt that the TC-50's compression didn't work well with them in as the sole speaker, but paired this way with the V30's, it's like have a vintage vibe on mega-steroids. Think setting the Tc on Red, and getting Black Sabbath meets Voivod! (Also depending on guitar and Pups) Luckily enough, this cab configuration works just as well with my Marshall, so I'm pretty psyched about it. In other words, the Greenbacks do add another dimension to the V30's that really works with the tc-50 to my ears, but I think even though I'm no huge V30 fan to begin with, I think it's good to approach this amp from that speaker, since it was obviously designed around it. Kinda live Marshall JVM's are obviously designed around G12t'75's


Another point I need to stress is that Chinese V30's suck. I tried this configuration with Chinese made V30's initially, and I was horrified at how bad they sounded. I didn't have the patience to break them in so I bought two Mesa branded v30's from the Mesa Hollywood store, and they sound amazing out of the box. They are well worth the slightly extra cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:31 am 
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Mark III
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Right after I posted this thread, I looked back to previous threads and found a positive post regarding greenbacks.

I have a vertical 2x12 recto cab that I bought used. When I got it, only the bottom speaker was the original V30. The original top V30 has been replaced with a Celestion G12M-70. I replaced that speaker with a WGS Veteran 30. Since then, I have been waffling about replacing the Veteran 30 with either a WGS Invader or a Celestion Neo Creamback.

I am fully aware that tone is subjective, and that even my definitions of "classic" and "modern" won't necessarily match anyone else's, especially since I have a touch of tinnitus. What I am trying to achieve tonally is a more full (thicker), richer tone. The V30s are almost there, but can still be a little shrill to me. I have been keeping the treble and presence rolled way down but I still think a speaker with a different focus would be a good approach. My other thought is to put a graphic in the loop - have one, just haven't tried it yet.

I have never heard a greenback-style speaker nor a creamback, so I sadly have to rely on YT videos, which I know I can't trust.

I love the TC50 and, even after a year, I am still trying to tailor my tone closer to my tastes, which are heavily influenced by my Electra Dyne. If only that amp had a volume taper like the TC50 and a similar weight!

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:39 am 
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Mark I

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:53 pm
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Quote:
I have never heard a greenback-style speaker nor a creamback, so I sadly have to rely on YT videos, which I know I can't trust.
While the ultimate choice should be made by you and your ears alone, there are tons of great A/B videos on YouTube that can help you get a good idea of the sound you're going to get. A search for greenbacks or creambacks or vintage 30s or whatever will yield countless results; the highest rated among them are well done and a fair representation of the speakers' characteristics.

IMO, that's a great way to narrow your options down (or to find new options you'd never come across on your own!)...


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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Mark III
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Yeah, that's the difficulty....can't hear them in person unless I buy the speakers, lol! I heard a clip of the Neo Creamback compared to the V30 on YT, and I honestly could not hear a difference.

I got very lucky when I bought my Electra Dyne. In person, the amp sounded very different compared to the video demos I watched. I was lucky because I liked the amp so much more once I got to play it. But that taught me a valuable lesson. Now I know what to really listen for when I watch demo videos. But, nothing beats hearing an amp and/or speaker in person.

I think I am going to try the EQ pedal in the loop first. Seems to make the most sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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No experience with the TC but I do own a 4x12 Soldano cab loaded with Invaders and I love them. They are a little less woody in the mid range that than my Marshall cab loaded with greenbacks also they seem to have slightly better (more thump) in the low end department. I also run that cab with my Trem o verb and DR and those two amps love them. I'm a big fan of those speakers. Of course a proper break in period is needed and then they absolutely sing!

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Mark III
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Still haven't tried the EQ pedal in the loop, but I can't stop GASsing over the Invader. Where are my Rolaids...?

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:01 am 
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Mark III
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The GAS took control and I bought the WGS Invader 50 to pair up with the Mesa V30 in my vertical cab. I've been out of town and it arrived while I was gone, so no chance to install and try yet. That may still take a little time as I have way too much on my plate for the next little while. Once I get that done, though, I will definitely post my impressions.

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:44 am 
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Mark IV

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I also have a Mesa vertical 2x12 that I recently picked up. It looks like the guy I bought it from never used it, looks mint. And the V30's are NOT broken in so to me they're really harsh sounding and I've had to dial the TC-50 in around these speakers. Not sure how much patience I have because I'm already thinking about swapping speakers. I have a Classic Lead and an ET-65 laying around, but some clips I've heard of the Creamback H75 to me sound really good.

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:17 am 
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Mark III
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I tried the WGS British Lead in that same cab and it wasn't what I was hoping for. I love that speaker in an open back cab I have, especially paired with my Electra Dyne. But the closed back vertical 2x12 just didn't have the same magic to my ears. I was lucky enough to receive my cab with the V30 already broken in. I haven't heard the ET-65, but I do have the ET-90. To me, that speaker was a little too bright for the TC50, but I am half deaf these days, so my opinion should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. I heard some clips of the Neo Creamback and have been struggling to keep from buying it. I have too many speakers lying around without a cab to justify another purchase. But, I am willing to bet I will eventually succumb to GAS.

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:37 pm 
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danyeo1 wrote:
I also have a Mesa vertical 2x12 that I recently picked up. It looks like the guy I bought it from never used it, looks mint. And the V30's are NOT broken in so to me they're really harsh sounding and I've had to dial the TC-50 in around these speakers. Not sure how much patience I have because I'm already thinking about swapping speakers. I have a Classic Lead and an ET-65 laying around, but some clips I've heard of the Creamback H75 to me sound really good.


In my experience with my Mark V and a brand new Mesa vertical 2x12, the speakers were awful sounding for a while till they broke in. So much treble and since the top speaker is aimed at your head, it’s even more pronounced. You may not end up liking the v30s, but give them a chance to break in. I started swapping speakers because of my inexperience and it was kind of a waste of time for me. Mesa (according to others with more knowledge than me) tunes their amps to the v30s. Now that they are broken in, they are fine for me. I still want to try a Greenbatuck, but the v30 isn’t as bad as I initially thought. YMMV

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:02 am 
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Mark III
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I finally got the opportunity to hear my new speaker combo at a proper volume. Even without the Invader being broken in, OMG! I've always leaned more towards a vintage tone, and this combo nails it in spades! I actually had to turn up my treble and presence. The highs are more rounded and the lows are more pronounced. I normally don't prefer channel 3 set to Tight, but it was necessary with these speakers. I can't wait until the Invader is broken in. This is the best I've ever heard my TC50!

EDIT: To be fair, I used my HM Telecaster with SD HB 103 pickups. Those are based on the Duncan Distortion and are some of my favorite full-size humbuckers.

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 Post subject: Re: Greenbacks?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Mark III
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Got to play the amp and cab in a band setting yesterday. Cut through the mix great! Amp still sounded glorious with other instruments involved. Ran a Timmy clone with channel 2. Totally amazing! Channel 3 was just as amazing, minus the Timmy. Clean channel was pristine! The entire setup is perfected for me.

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