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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:40 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm
Posts: 12
Have some comments and questions about the issues I’m having. Hoping for some feedback as I really do not want to return the amp.

This JP-2C just doesn’t seem very loud at all. What I mean is, and to be blunt... It sounds amazing at 10:00 but it sounds like crap at a really loud volume.

I’ve had the amp for 1 week and have tried every setting combo one can try. I’m at the point of returning the amp and/or questioning if something is wrong with my amp.

The fletcher Munson you speak of in the other thread. Idk much about it but idk guys. I have a Bogner Uber and I fired it up for the first time since I got the Mesa and TBH the Bogner destroys the JP-2C at loud volumes. Don’t get me wrong the JP sounds amazing at low volume but once I’m at noon or above it loses its magic. It seems like it’s just reallllly struggling to get the same gain is the best way I can explain it. I know comparing these amps is apples to oranges but these aren’t my first amps and something is just not right with the JP regarding the volume and retaining the same character of the tone.

I’ve been asking around and reading a lot trying to figure this out. A couple of Mesa buddies explained Mesa’s tube ratings to me. Regarding the color codes.


My questions:

What Tubes did your JP come with? Mine say BLU.

One person told me the BLU have the fastest breakup and that if I want more volume before breakup that I need yellow or red?

I’m not trying to start a sh!t storm. I have been reading up. I’m aware Mesa says there is NO difference but I also have seen the forum arguments. Without first hand experience I’m tempted to believe my friend on this. I want to believe him, that a different tube will give me what I need because I love the sound at 10:00. The problem is that I absolutely need more volume (with a great tone) in order to justify keeping this amp.

So I’m curious, those of you who may know first hand. What are your thoughts on this tube breakup theory?

Different color code needed?

Maybe some older 420’s?

Bias MOD for my amp?

I am at a loss here. Fixed bias sounds good on paper but now I’m starting to wonder, is it reallt a good thing in a real world application?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:49 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:14 pm
Posts: 15
I am suspicious about if you might have an impedance mismatch (between cab and head) happening based on your description of the issue. Some impedance mismatches can cause a very serious loss of potential volume and or negatively affect tone at higher volumes. Also as I mentioned earlier don't be afraid to lower the bass/treb and boost your mids when playing loud.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm
Posts: 12
Jesse Daly wrote:
I am suspicious about if you might have an impedance mismatch (between cab and head) happening based on your description of the issue. Some impedance mismatches can cause a very serious loss of potential volume and or negatively affect tone at higher volumes. Also as I mentioned earlier don't be afraid to lower the bass/treb and boost your mids when playing loud.


All 16 ohms.

Bass is on zero but the Treble is at 1:00 and the mids at 10:00 and a V on EQ with shred.

I need the treble at 1:00 to get the gain that I need.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:28 pm
Posts: 30
I’ve never thought fixed bias is the way to go, try to find some good NOS Sylvania, RCA, Philips etc tubes... and have a bias pot put in the amp.

What speakers are you running in the cab ? Is it a 4x12 or a 2x12 ?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm
Posts: 12
paulyc wrote:
I’ve never thought fixed bias is the way to go, try to find some good NOS Sylvania, RCA, Philips etc tubes... and have a bias pot put in the amp.

What speakers are you running in the cab ? Is it a 4x12 or a 2x12 ?


212 with Eminence V12 Legends.

And yeah the fixed bias thing idk about. Would be nice to throw in whatever 6l6 I wanted.

Should be able to try my 412 soon. I will say though at practice today in a better room I had better results but still would like more.

I have an ISP Vector that really helps too.

Maybe I just don’t know MESA amps. It sounds much better along with the bassist and in the mix than it does by myself so idk.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Mark I

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:28 pm
Posts: 30
Petrucci uses a tube screamer on his board, and Hetfield the tc booster and Aphex parametric EQ with his IIC+, so don’t rule out help from outboard gear to get what you need. Stryper used the Furman PQ3 and Brad Gillis too...

I’d still try it with a 4x12, IDK about the V12s, but some Boogie Black Shadow MC90s or some K100s might kick it in the ass.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:08 am 
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Mark I

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:55 pm
Posts: 31
I have noticed that mine thins out quite a bit at 12 o'clock for what its worth.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:44 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:14 pm
Posts: 15
According to the manual it's really going to operate optimally at 8 ohms, so if you have a good 8ohm cab or feel like doing some soldering you could also try for that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm
Posts: 12
Jesse Daly wrote:
According to the manual it's really going to operate optimally at 8 ohms, so if you have a good 8ohm cab or feel like doing some soldering you could also try for that.



There are a few cabs to test for at the practice spot and I’m not opposed to replacing speakers. Kind of been wanting to try 8ohms anyway.

The reason I have 16 is I bought my 412 wired at 16. So I made my 212 match for convenience.

I’m willing to do what I need to try and make this amp work before and if I return because the sound
I’m getting at a low volume is glorious.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:18 pm
Posts: 14
Maddnotez wrote:
Jesse Daly wrote:
I am suspicious about if you might have an impedance mismatch (between cab and head) happening based on your description of the issue. Some impedance mismatches can cause a very serious loss of potential volume and or negatively affect tone at higher volumes. Also as I mentioned earlier don't be afraid to lower the bass/treb and boost your mids when playing loud.


All 16 ohms.

Bass is on zero but the Treble is at 1:00 and the mids at 10:00 and a V on EQ with shred.

I need the treble at 1:00 to get the gain that I need.


Since this uses the typical fender tone stack (after the first gain stage) how you set it directly affects gain. The treble control is the output of the tone stack and directly affects gain. Mids effect the low mid range and bass the flub.

Set the bass at zero to 9:00 and mids to 10:00 to noon or even higher. Set the treble to about 1:30 to 2:00. Use the presence for the top end and use the graphic EQ as your typical tone stack.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm
Posts: 12
baron58 wrote:
Maddnotez wrote:
Jesse Daly wrote:
I am suspicious about if you might have an impedance mismatch (between cab and head) happening based on your description of the issue. Some impedance mismatches can cause a very serious loss of potential volume and or negatively affect tone at higher volumes. Also as I mentioned earlier don't be afraid to lower the bass/treb and boost your mids when playing loud.


All 16 ohms.

Bass is on zero but the Treble is at 1:00 and the mids at 10:00 and a V on EQ with shred.

I need the treble at 1:00 to get the gain that I need.


Since this uses the typical fender tone stack (after the first gain stage) how you set it directly affects gain. The treble control is the output of the tone stack and directly affects gain. Mids effect the low mid range and bass the flub.

Set the bass at zero to 9:00 and mids to 10:00 to noon or even higher. Set the treble to about 1:30 to 2:00. Use the presence for the top end and use the graphic EQ as your typical tone stack.


Thanks for that info.

I have an ISP Vector that really helps get me there. I just figured this amp shouldn’t need a crutch. I’ll play with the settings a bit more and see what I can come up with.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:21 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:18 pm
Posts: 14
I have found for the most gain type of tone, that the presence needs to be pulled and the gain pot pushed in. The gain pot pulled seems to muddy things up. Also I really like the punch with the presence pushed in, but it doesn't have the saturation as the presence pulled which is supposedly the stock Mark 2c presence.

For more saturated tones, turn the mids and treble up on the tone stack, and then use the presence and graphic EQ to shape it. The tone stack since it is between the first 2 gain stages is a huge gain killer, especially when you start cutting frequencies. That is why it is difficult to get gainy tones on Fender style amps because the tone stack is cutting so much signal to the 2nd gain stage.


Try diming the mids treble at 3:00 and bass 9:00 or less and gain pushed in, presence pulled and using the presence and graphic EQ to shape everything else.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3073
Location: North Carolina
Sorry late to the discussion. I have an Egnator 412 cab that came with 16 ohm speakers installed. It has a 16 ohm combined impedance. To be honest, I thought it sounded anemic even though there is a 16ohm tap, Mesa's preference is the 8ohm arena or the 4 ohm load (two 8 ohm cabs) which is why there are generally two 4 ohm jacks. Before I swapped those out for the cream backs (all 8 ohms, Mesa 212 cabs use 16 ohm speakers [with the exception of the early one's that have the half back and metal grill, those split to 8 but run at 4 combined so you are limited to only one cab unless you get a converter box], the 412 use 8 ohm speakers).

I have no issues at higher volume settings as you described with either a vertical or horizontal 212 or one of my 412 cabs. All of which have load rating of 8 ohms. The 8 ohm and 4 ohm jacks will provide the most power from the amp vs the 16 ohm tap. Other amps that generally are designed around a 16 ohm load will sound best with the 16 ohm load and may get bogged down at lower impedances. Cab may be the one issue and the most likely issue. If you have two cabs both at 16 ohms, connect them together (in parallel) and plug into the 8 ohm load jack.

However if your amp is not up to par, it could be the PI tube as that will regulate how loud the amp will get with your settings.

As for color codes, not exactly sure, I heard the opposite. Reds have early distortion where as white will have late distortion. The actual range is rather narrow relative to the GT rating system. Red =4 and white = 7 The Blues should have more headroom than say a red or yellow.

Here is a link to how groove tubes rate the tubes and a comparison to Mesa color codes.
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Rating.html

You may be better off trying the amp in a 8 ohm Mesa cab if you can find one,

_________________
Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm
Posts: 12
Update:

Not on here much so sorry for not replying.

The amp is fine. It shipped with a bad pre amp tube. I put in a new set of tubes and one of the replacements was bad too so I had no idea.

I hooked it up one last time before returning and while reinstalling the original mesa tubes I found the issue.

This amp is so good. I have had it for a bit now and for a band mix it is just amazing. Seems like a very well thought out amp, sits with the other instruments very nicely.

I have been using an OS Mesa 4x12 and it sounds glorious. Funny enough, I never liked that cab because it was boomy with my Bogner but with the JP2C it kills.

Been using a Friedman Buxom Boost and getting the meanest tones ever. Man, what an amp.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Mark IV
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:12 pm
Posts: 671
Location: Petaluma, California
bandit2013 wrote:
Sorry late to the discussion. I have an Egnator 412 cab that came with 16 ohm speakers installed. It has a 16 ohm combined impedance. To be honest, I thought it sounded anemic even though there is a 16ohm tap, Mesa's preference is the 8ohm arena or the 4 ohm load (two 8 ohm cabs) which is why there are generally two 4 ohm jacks. Before I swapped those out for the cream backs (all 8 ohms, Mesa 212 cabs use 16 ohm speakers [with the exception of the early one's that have the half back and metal grill, those split to 8 but run at 4 combined so you are limited to only one cab unless you get a converter box], the 412 use 8 ohm speakers).

I have no issues at higher volume settings as you described with either a vertical or horizontal 212 or one of my 412 cabs. All of which have load rating of 8 ohms. The 8 ohm and 4 ohm jacks will provide the most power from the amp vs the 16 ohm tap. Other amps that generally are designed around a 16 ohm load will sound best with the 16 ohm load and may get bogged down at lower impedances. Cab may be the one issue and the most likely issue. If you have two cabs both at 16 ohms, connect them together (in parallel) and plug into the 8 ohm load jack.

However if your amp is not up to par, it could be the PI tube as that will regulate how loud the amp will get with your settings.

As for color codes, not exactly sure, I heard the opposite. Reds have early distortion where as white will have late distortion. The actual range is rather narrow relative to the GT rating system. Red =4 and white = 7 The Blues should have more headroom than say a red or yellow.

Here is a link to how groove tubes rate the tubes and a comparison to Mesa color codes.
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Rating.html

You may be better off trying the amp in a 8 ohm Mesa cab if you can find one,


Red color code has highest headroom, White will breakup sooner. Keep in mind you will probably never see a Brown or White color code...

That said, Red, Yellow, Green, and Blue - I have yet to meet someone who, in a controlled test, can tell the difference between color codes. Especially since our power sections are designed to stay cleaner, longer - you won't notice the breakup characteristics until the power section is pushed hard.

_________________
MESA/Boogie - Product Specialist/Customer Service - http://www.mesaboogie.com/support/index.html


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