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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:14 pm
Posts: 15
yup that's them


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
A single EVM12L black label is great, a pair is awesome. Double that and you get explosive. I could not be in the same room with the EV loaded 412 cab without some hearing loss with the amp wide open. Even the Roadster is a ear drum killer and that amp is not as loud as the JP. The 212 will be loud enough for just about anything. I used to run an EV in an extension cab with the Mark V combo loaded with an EV that I mounted with the traditional method, on the front baffle, had to mod the grill to fit. That on its own shook the house beyond belief. No doubt the EV loaded 212 will surpass your expectations.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:14 pm
Posts: 15
Some people report that running the top of the halfback open with a nice alnico like the celestion alnico cream or fane axa, with the evm12L in the ported bottom still... I may try that or perhaps a jensen blackbird or the wsg version which is supposedly less dark. (did I read you had used a blackbird?)

Then I could source an empty ported 1x12 either mesa or perhaps Port City and slap the other evm12L in it...

I can think of at least half a dozen places that i might book gigs at that are really going to require a 1x12 format...

my rocket 44 might cut it, but I am thinking even if I am just playing clean the noise floor on the jp2c sounds like it might be quite preferable in more intimate spots...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
the black bird takes a while to break in. It does not like distortion out of the box. How boring that was to break it in. I got better and better and then when I bought a Celestion Crème 90W alnico, tried it and then wanted to compare the blackbird and pocked one of the screws though the webbing of the cone. I put that in my Carvin V3MC and has been there since then. That amp gets used every other week end. I would never have noticed the tear was there.

the Celestion Crème 90W alnico sounded great, right out of the box. Clean tone was not bad as that had more of a vintage tone, but open up the amp, that sounded better than the EV. Another similar speaker is the Celestion Red back. it is 150W, just a tad bit less bright but really sings when pushed hard. This has more midrange and would complement the EV speaker. The WGS Black hawk HP100 did not survive the first tryout with the Mark IV combo. It suffered the same fate with that amp as when I ran the JP-2C into the Celestion Crème at 100W. It did not take long before I realized I did not flip the switch. 100W blew out a 90W speaker, yes it did, the JP-2C peaks at 145W RMS. I popped an MC90 doing the same thing. Not sure how accurate the meter is on the attenuator but I would assume it is as the Roadster and RA100 never rose above 100W.

Fane Studio 12L is also an insane speaker, I was able to really push that with the Mark IV at master volume levels to the point the amp just becomes more compressed. That speaker really projects (close up it is not as loud as it is farther back, that sort of purplexed me) Also has that british tone but plenty of bottom end. May be a hard fit in the cab as it has a extensions on the frame for mounting bolts other than around the ring. Never had a chance to try the JP-2C though it. I sold the Mark iv combo with the speaker mounted in it.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:18 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:14 pm
Posts: 15
Well my JP2c showed up at the UPS pickup today and after I got my daughter to sleep I went ahead an hooked it up.

HOLY CHRIST!!!!!! I am just playing at bedroom levels in my apartment at night on my homemade 4x8+12 cab and I am next to tears with how damn good this baby sounds!!!

The reverb is freaking glorious! And the number of different tones available just with the foot-switch and pickup selection is mind boggling.

BEST AMP EVER

I can't wait to take it to rehearsal and open it up!

I am truly shocked how good it manages to sound at low volume, it goes against all conventional wisdom, big bottle high wattage amps have no right sounding this good at night on the 3rd floor. I am running it at about half the volume I would watch a movie at in my living room and I just simply can't believe it!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:43 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
That is the reason why this post has turned into a blog. Even what was covered on these pages barely scratches the surface of the JP-2C. This amp is definitely Mesa's diamond as there are many facets to this amp. Have fun exploring. Since you are running a 412 cab, you may want to try the shred mode at low level playing to compensate for the bass response if it gets boomy. This may be more necessary for the Mesa 212 cabs as those are very deep sounding. The amp will get brighter at higher volume settings on each channel.

Best thing to try out, Midrange control will affect the distortion levels and depending on what guitar woods you have it will enhance mahogany when set past noon. The pulls on the gain and presence are great to try out too. I typically run the clean channel without the GEQ as it seems to be more organic. If you boost the midrange on the clean channel it will begin to clip which is something I learned later on. Another surprise is how well the amp responds to OD pedals. I have used the grid slammer and the flux drive with the JP and that was rewarding. FX loop send levels is more on par with the early versions of the Mark series so it is doubtful the amp will have issues with effects in the loop.

I find it surreal how big and powerful the sound is from such a small amplifier. Tone and sound quality is why I have the JP-2C. It is a modern old school Mesa that has surpassed my expectations.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:54 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
The faceplate I ordered from Mesa came the other day. I finally got around to taking a picture but at the same time it is sort of a New Guitar Day thing at the same time. Fender Dave Murray Stratocaster (center guitar). The other two are my Carvin Bolt C's. I am really loving the color scheme change with the new face plate. Crème and black jute with crème piping as it ties in the head to the cabinet (third Vertical 212). I was getting tired of looking at all black stuff. Also when using a flash the black jute almost becomes transparent. I think the OS Recto 412 cab I have with the grey and black jute grill to match the RA100 head got me in the mood for something a bit different. The new faceplate from Mesa was not overly expensive. It was a bit stiff to get into the pocket but I did manage to massage it into place before securing it with the screws. Warms up the appearance.

Oh yeah, one last thing: I am loving the new strat though the JP-2C. Actuall all three are killer though the amp. Note bridge pickup on all three guitars are humbuckers. Two having the SD hot rails and the other the JB Jr. I did order some stacked single coil pickups to install into the moss green Carvin to get more of a vintage tone from the neck and middle position. The cool rails and vintage rails are okay but want a bit more David Gilmore sound. Each guitar will have a different complement of pickups so I can broaden my spectrum of sound.

Image

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:04 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
It is odd that my two guitar playing friends both favor the TC-100 over the JP-2C. The one that likes to dominate the stages actually complained the JP has too much midrange. If he were to bring his Stratocaster that would be a different story. Why he insists on bringing the old 62 Les Paul (picture an SG with a single dog eared P90 in the bridge and that is it, I should just call it an early SG and leave it at that). That particular guitar is midrange burdened. I am glad I did not get the P90 pickups for my main axe as I did try the SG though the JP and did not like it all that much. His comment is "you max out the controls on the guitar and dial in the amp". Not for me I guess. That old pickup actually sounds better though the TC-100.

Anyways, the point to reviving this post, the JP to me is the ideal amp. Since I have learned to focus more on expression in my playing, the dynamics on CH2 or CH3 serves me quite well. The bottom end is unreal, midrange sound good to me and overall I feel it is the greatest amp ever made. If you are one that just keeps your guitar volume at max and dial in your amp to suit your taste, you will be missing out on the dynamics and characteristics of the JP-2C that makes it the best amp I have ever owned. TC-100 cannot touch the dynamic range of the distortion. I set the amp and leave it there and use the guitar volume to create the level of distortion or cleanliness I want in the guitar signal. Just the roll back on the guitar volume cleans it up (sure there is still some clip but it sounds awesome). With the TC-100 or the TC-50 on that matter, volume roll back does not seem to change the dynamic character of the distortion level all that much. I would say the Mark V is better with the dynamic range of soft to hard clip like the JP-2C than the TC-100 or TC-50. Even the Roadster has that characteristic. Still the JP-2C tops the list in my arsenal of gear. I only wish there was an FX loop button on the foot controller.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:48 am
Posts: 267
bandit2013 wrote:
It is odd that my two guitar playing friends both ... complained the JP has too much midrange.


+1

Don't get me wrong, the JP is for shure A or even THE beast. But when it comes to its "thick modern midrange attack", I'm not very impressed. I can hear that thick "beard of midrange" in almost every JP live recording since the introduction of the JP2C. At first, I thought the reason would be a different MIC but in the meantime I think it is the amp.
I think those new tones can not compete with the tones from the 2C area (1999 - 2003), something is or sounds different.

What do you think?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
I can agree is the thick but low mids to bass response seems to be more dominant. It can depend on your pickup choice too. That old hot wound P90 pickup on the old 62 just has too much midrange. Couple that with any of my amps in it is mud. Dial out all of the midrange and it is ideal. On the other hand when I use my amps, I am boosting the midrange. JP I will dial it out with the GEQ but may raise it just below the center line. Perhaps my ear is not tuned to that midrange issue due to bleeding out caused by the ice pick Mark V. That now is corrected as best as it will get but my hearing is not.

How that compares to the original IIC+, not sure as I never had one. The tone of the Mesa STR440 6L6GC tube does have a bit more midrange to it, almost similar to an EL34 in some respects. Other tubes like SED =C=6L6 will not be a dominated in the midrange like the STR440's.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:29 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:48 am
Posts: 267
Yes, maybe there are several reasons for those mids. Mesas 6L6s are one factor for shure, since I sold those tubes it somehow became better. In the moment I'm struggeling with my 4x12 standard slanted cab again - soundwise, it simply can not compete with my EV thiele 1x12. There is a lot of honky difference that I try to compensate with the 240Hz slider. Maybe, I'm just not a V30 guy. With the EV, I simply dial in the standard V shape EQ and I'm good/perfect.

bandit2013 wrote:
I can agree is the thick but low mids to bass response seems to be more dominant.


Maybe that's the thing that bothers me on the recordings, the biggest bass frequencies get cut by the mics/foh-mix and the result for the audience is just a BIG amount of mid juce, too much for my taste. Standing in front of the amp sounds better for shure.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:36 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
I believe you are correct on the midrange ordeal. I do recall trying the JP-2C with the Rivera Rock Crusher and noticed the attenuated result was definitely had midrange emphasis. Probably a reason I did not make any new recordings as I am still searching for that sound I have in my head. I have heard some really good recordings of the amp which is what really fired my interest in getting the amp.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=me ... ORM=VRDGAR
It did not have that Mark V tone that gets on my nerves. In some respects I can say the same thing about the Mark V. In its original form there is more of a tunnel effect on the midrange as if it was intended to have a notch filter on the mids and then burdens the distorted character with tube created upper harmonics that is the root of the ice pick. Just about every recording including the Mesa demos I hear that characteristic. Odd enough though that the Mark V does record well. I have since cured some of that ice pick with a few mods to the Mark V. I know you know what I did so no point on going further with that. Some have asked me why I converted my Mark V head to a combo. I wanted an open back EV format for taking advantage of the clean channel as well as allowing the amp to go beyond insane running the high gain channels. The JP-2C excels beyond imagination though the EV speaker too. The more I think about this, the more I want to install the EV speaker in the Mesa 1x12 cab so I have a small cab to go with the JP. MC90 is just not ideal for a Mark amp. That speaker on its own has a honky tone to it. The OTR speaker has more of a blanket effect so not sure what I am going to do with that. May mix it in another cab with something else. However, the Vertical 212 cab definitely gets down and dirty with the bottom end and has plenty of top end to rip your ear drums to shreds but seem to curb the midrange drone you get with the OS Recto 412 cab. So far the only amp I really care to run though a stock OS Recto 412 is the RA100 or perhaps either of the TC series amps (100 or 50). Here is a tip for monster tone, find a decent used OS Recto 412 that you do not mind tossing out the speakers, load the thing with EV black label speakers and you will have a killer cab without the midrange dominance that you would get with the V30. I used to believe the OS Recto 412 had decent bottom end, but compared to the current Vertical 212, the OSR 412 is lacking the punch almost as if there is some cancellation of the bottom end. It is there but more emphasis on the midrange content. Not the case with all EV speakers. I really love that modified cab with the Roadster, no farts, dark overtones and incredible characteristics that the V30's could not provide. Stock OSR 412 with the Roadster sounds very thin and on the edge of flubbing out the V30. The newer 412 cab seems to evade the flub as the cab design is much different than the one I have from 1999/2000 (this one got modified with the EV). The EV loaded OSR 412 completes the package. Top it off with the JP and you are in a different world. That cab is so loud I do not use it all that often so the Vertical 212 saves my hearing. What also sounds huge and defined is to combine an open back EV with the vertical or horizontal 212 cab loaded with the V30. When you run the Mark V through the 4 ohm jacks you tend to loose some of the brittleness. The JP on the other hand, also kicks ass with the two cabs. 2 Vert 212 was just sic. I will have to try that with an EV and one of the 212 just for fun. Actually running the EV loaded 412 with the stock V30 412 cab does add some interesting character to the mix.

An interesting note: If you have the JP and Mark V, compare both of them without the GEQ. Now I will believe your comment on the midrange dominance. The JP will have more midrange emphasis than the Mark V sans EQ. The Mark V actually sounds better without the GEQ than the JP. Perhaps it depends on the primary tone controls. Also there is one other factor I have noticed. When I am using the Mark V, I keep the volume on the guiar all the way up. When I am using the JP I generally take advantage of the guitar volume control knob. Just in that alone provides a range of gain characteristics as it does not seem to alter the output volume all that much (it does but the notable drop is not as great as it is with the Mark V). I think I would have to run the Mark V without the FX loop active to get a more direct comparison to the JP-2C. That I have not tired yet.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:30 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:22 am
Posts: 285
Location: MO
bandit2013 wrote:
The Mark V actually sounds better without the GEQ than the JP.


:shock:

This seems like a unique opinion for anyone who favors the jp over the v. Is all the magic in the jp’s sliders? At what point does the jp pull ahead for you?

I’m not a huge fan of the v sans eq. I welcome the jps fuller, more natural midrange.

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Les Paul Custom 08
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JP2C


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:42 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:48 am
Posts: 267
I guess that statement refers to bandit's modded V.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:54 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2995
Location: North Carolina
I ran the comparison sans GEQ when I first got the JP-2C. Probably reason why I was not so thrilled with it at first since I did not use the GEQ. It does have a bit more midrange without the GEQ in use. However for the clean channel, I do not use the GEQ as that sounds really good without it. As for the Mark V sans GEQ comparison this was before I considered modifying the amp, it actually predates the 12AT7 saturation involvement. I do not like the Mark V without the GEQ but in comparison the Mark V was a bit brighter and did not have the saturated midrange, I blame that on C39 on V4B circuit.

The main inspiration for making changes to the Mark V was in short the thrill of the JP-2C in its entirety. I loved every aspect of the JP that I had longed for most of my guitar playing decades. That is the tone I wanted but could not get it. Mark III was probably the closest but I had that amp sold a few months before getting the Mark V. I think why I decided to keep the Mark V over the Mark IV was the separation of the three channels. RHY2 was just a let down in the combo format, it did sound much, much better through the 412 cab though.

Onto the mods, I wanted to see if I could replicate the JP-2C character with the Mark V. They both share the same circuit topography in the cascaded gain stages. So why the ice pick in the Mark V and not in the JP-2C. For one, it is the power supply and transformers are not the same. Secondly, there may be some differences in the tone stack and feedback loop in the presence control and last but not least, the design of the GEQ itself. Mark V places the GEQ before the FX loop and is responsible for attenuation of the signal for the send. The V uses NPN transistors both in front stage driver circuit of the GEQ as well as the differential pair to cut or boost frequencies and then drives a PNP transistor to create the output level. Also note that the differential pair is more like a current mirror than it is a differential pair. The topography of the JP-2C dates back to the original IIC+ GEQ and that circuit carried on through the models and was last used in the Mark IV. It is also referenced from a negative voltage vs the +24VDC. I would say they are both similar in concept but different. The send level of the IIC+ all the way up to the Mark IV as well as the JP-2C is created from a tube output. Not a cathode follower circuit like you would find in the Rectifier amps or even the RA and TC series. Sorry for the tangent. The mods in question would be the addition of a resistor jumper to couple the two switched outputs from the GEQ (one for all voices except the IIC+ and then the one for the IIC+ only). That simple mod just made a slight difference and seems to have improved CH1 and CH2 tone as a bonus. It is not a major change but I can tell the difference. Of course the other mod of coupling the two grounds on V6A for the bypass capacitors, again this adds more cathode bypass capacitance to the IIC+ voice and seems to tighten up the other CH3 voices. I originally used a 150 ohm resistor jumper which is one tenth the value of the cathode resistor. I did remove it just to hear a difference. When I went to install it again, I could not find another 150 ohm resistor but used a 15 ohm resistor by mistake. I need to correct it as the 150 ohm resistor did not grossly effect the extreme voice. Still it is an improvement over the stock form. I am just happy the Mark V lost its ice pick. I have the 12AT7 to blame for that as it helped a great deal, the jumper mods aided to tighten up the flubby bass so it is more on par with the JP-2C and even the TC series. The most notable difference with the mods is the response of the amp with a V30 loaded cab. Oh yeah, it almost nails the JP-2C characteristics of CH2 but there are some differences (you are not limited to using the IIC+ to get that sound either as the MKIV and Extreme jump onto that JP-2C beast of a tone too). I would have preferred not to make any mods but since I have done so, I am more pleased with the Mark V. I could not stand the V all that much before except for CH1 and CH2. Before the JP came along, I was chasing the tone bubble with different speakers and other preamp tubes and could not get a character on CH3 that was satisfying for more than 20 minutes. To me, the Mark V sounds more complete after the mods. Such is life. Everyone has a different opinion on tone. I am personally not thrilled with ice pick. Before the mod, I had to set all the controls below 10am, treble at 9am was all I could tolerate and the gain would not result in instant uncontrolled feedback. Having to reduce the settings so low resulted in less than satisfactory sound. Also considering I had to adjust the bias for the 6L6 tubes as the original bias resistor was causing immediate tube failure. Was not interested in making it adjustable, I just wanted to be able to run stock tubes without red plating witin 20 minutes of use, that was getting expensive. Could have sent the amp to Mesa when it was under warranty but did not. I had too much on my mind at the time I was having the issues, copping with life in general was one huge issue in having to deal with a loss that I could not comprehend and it was the Mark V that helped me get through that. It is what it is. As for the JP-2C, it gave me what the Mark V was not. Sort of a blend of the Roadster, Royal Atlantic and the Mark V which is why I am so esthetic over the amp. I can make it bright, extremely bright but yet no ice pick or breaking glass in my eardrums. Awesome. It does have a sinister dark overtone to it and gets more dominant at lower volume settings. Shred switch cures that just as much as the grid slammer. Also, the JP-2C takes on pedals quite well, or at least the Grid slammer and or Flux drive. I could not be happier.

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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