JP-2C vs Quad/295 vs Mark III Red Stripe

Which one of the three gets closer to a DRG IIC+? I know, the Petrucci’s one is plain class AB, but listening to the very useful MrSmitty’s comparison between JP-2C, V, V25 and III+, aside from the 25, I find more similarities than differences among the others. Now, the fact is that I can spend like 3000 €, and I’m pondering on these options: import a JP-2C from the US (just can’t afford the price tag over here, 3800 €)? Get a cheaper Quad/295 rack, or a Red Stripe III? Buy a Kemper and get instantly banned from this board? Please, let me know your thinking.

Anyway, I’ve just found this video, hopefully you didn’t see it yet: http://tinyurl.com/jbfygx5

Great find on the video! Sounds great.

Yes, the Quad/295 is cheaper.
I bought my 295 for $600 and Quad for $430.
Probably could get a red stripe for around that.

Just to give you a warning.
The Quad/295 is extremely heavy because of it being two separate amps in one package.
Total of 20 tubes inside it (12 pre, 8 power).
I have been an Ironworker for 21 years.
I can pick up a slant cabinet with C90s and EVM12Ls and set it on top of a bottom cabinet.
No problem putting a single head unit on top of a stack.
There is no way I can pick up my Quad/295 in a 8u MESA/Boogie shockmount case and put it on top of a stack. I tried.
It would take two people.
Would be lighter in a smaller plastic rack case like SKB, but, still heavy.

Probably not the info you're looking for or needing, but, I figured I would warn you first about the weight.

Salem: I guess it all depends on what you're looking get out of the amp/rig. If your just looking for a sweet lead channel, the red stripe would probably just be fine. I loved playing and gigging with my Mark III, I got many compliments on it. But it was very limited for the music I play with the cover band. I got a great lead tone and fair clean tone, but didn't care for the rythym channel. I find myself trying to dial in my JP (channel 2) to sound like my III+ Lead channel...LOL

I don't have any experience with the quad, so can't comment on that.

I think the JP2C is going to get you closest to a DRG c+. Now, I also have not played a quad or a red stripe but the JP is a HRGG c+. And the big thing the JP has is the reproduction of the original transformers, which, imo, plays a huge part in the overall tone. So if you absolutely have to have that c+ tone, then the JP2C is the way to go.
That video you found is a good one. I think it gets a little closer to how the JP2C really sounds than any I've seen so far. (Sorry MrSmitty, I do love your videos though). It captures more of that raw openness, and breath that's in the JP2C's tone. You really have to experience these Mark series amps in person to appreciate the differences. The circuits are so close to each other and when you squish them into a YouTube video to compare them it can become difficult to hear the attributes that make each amp special. You could also just keep your eyes open for a DRG c+, that might get you pretty close as well. :mrgreen:

MichaelC4: good warning, I knew it was heavy, but not that heavy! And my arms are like Ibanez Wizard necks, I have no muscles at all, so there’s no chance that I could handle that rack without a crane. Moreover, retubing the thing has to be expensive.

MrSmitty: you know, in terms of gain, I need a lead channel, but I’m not a lead player, so my priority is a tight rhythm tone for some low tunings (mainly C# and B Standard). What I don’t need is versatility, I sold the Mark V because of that (and ‘cause I was not totally satisfied with the third channel too). But let me ask you: gain-wise, do you feel that your III+ has more, less or as much as the JP-2C?

SamuelJ86: I was reading this: http://tinyurl.com/zde24ks
That’s why I’m a little hesitant about the JP-2C. I can’t try one before the purchase; from what I hear on YouTube, it sounds terrific, but not exactly as I would like. This amp delivers so much flexibility, but as I hinted at above, I don’t need it: two lead channels, a couple of graphic EQs, MIDI capability... Essential to many, useless to me. Nonetheless, with all the import duties, it would costs me more than 2500 €, nearly 3000 in the worst-case scenario. It’s a great amp, no doubt about that, but would you pay like 3350 $ (not to mention those 4250 $ in the european stores) for a standard version? I’d love to grab a DRG, but the only one I can find at this moment is an overpriced one. I mean, this is hilariously high, more than 6000 USD: http://tinyurl.com/zxc9vqd

Thank you all for the helpful replies!

SamuelJ86 said:

. I think it gets a little closer to how the JP2C really sounds than any I've seen so far. (Sorry MrSmitty, I do love your videos though). It captures more of that raw openness, and breath that's in the JP2C's tone. You really have to experience these Mark series amps in person to appreciate the differences. The circuits are so close to each other and when you squish them into a YouTube video to compare them it can become difficult to hear the attributes that make each amp special. :mrgreen:

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HA HA, no worries man. That video did have a nice tone. Funny thing is, his setting are similar to the one's I used, except...he had slightly more treble, gain and higher master volume. His GEQ 6600 slider was lower too. You're right about getting good recored tones on Youtube, it's tricky. I'll try to work on some brutal tones/videos later...

Salem Sloth said:

MrSmitty: you know, in terms of gain, I need a lead channel, but I’m not a lead player, so my priority is a tight rhythm tone for some low tunings (mainly C# and B Standard). What I don’t need is versatility, I sold the Mark V because of that (and ‘cause I was not totally satisfied with the third channel too). But let me ask you: gain-wise, do you feel that your III+ has more, less or as much as the JP-2C?
Thank you all for the helpful replies!

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I'd say the III+ and JP are pretty **** close gain wise. Just keep in mind the JP has internal preset volume settings, where as the Mk III you'll have to set the volume to your desired level. Hope this helps.

MrSmitty said:

I'd say the III+ and JP are pretty **** close gain wise. Just keep in mind the JP has internal preset volume settings, where as the Mk III you'll have to set the volume to your desired level. Hope this helps.

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Thanks!

Salem Sloth said:

SamuelJ86: I was reading this: http://tinyurl.com/zde24ks
That’s why I’m a little hesitant about the JP-2C.!

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The JP2C isn't overly bright at all, imo. It's not any brighter than the mark V and the V is simulclass. There will be some c+ guys that are a little intimidated by the JP2C. Saying nothing will ever be as good as the original. But there will also be c+ guys that just don't get along with the JP, wether it be the fact that its a non simulclass or anything else. I was always on the verge of buying a c+ when I found one, but I could never pull the trigger. Mainly because it's a 30 year old amp. Do I really want to spend that kind of money on a 30 year old amp. So when the JP came out it was a only a matter of time before I snatched it up. Brand new c+ with a warranty, yes please!
I think simulclass benifits lead players and class A/B pentode favors rhythm players. Class A/B will always be bigger, bolder and tighter. Especially for drop tunings. If you are mainly a rhythm player, I think you may want to think about getting a 100 watter instead. I also play mainly rhythm and drop tunings like you. And like you I didn't really care, or think I'd use the extra GEQ on the JP. But now that I've got them, I love them. In my case I use each GEQ for a different tuning. And occasionally different rhythm tones. I used to need just one rhythm tone and I'd be good, but now that I've got the extra GEQ I end up using it. I understand your situation and the JP is a lot of money. I think the mark III is a good option for you. It just makes sense financially. Another reason I love mesa is because most of their amps hold their value very well. You could sell the JP2C, if you didn't get along with it, and probably make money. And you could sell the mark III and not lose anything. Forget banks, I'd rather have my money in an amp, being useful, than making .02% interest that is my savings account. lol let us know what you decide!

Thanks a lot for being so exhaustive, I’ll let you guys know!

I know I'm late and ever so slightly off topic so bear with me...

SamuelJ86 said:

I was always on the verge of buying a c+ when I found one, but I could never pull the trigger. Mainly because it's a 30 year old amp. Do I really want to spend that kind of money on a 30 year old amp. So when the JP came out it was a only a matter of time before I snatched it up. Brand new c+ with a warranty, yes please!

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That's certainly one way of looking at it. But I suspect in 10, 20 or 30 years you might have second thoughts.

There are some similarities in this situation to when Gibson reissued Les Pauls in the late 1960s and the 1970s. The prices of older models were somewhat comparable to the new reissue models but the availability of old models was poor. And who would invest in an old beat-up dog when you could get a brand new guitar for the same price or even less?
But if you did...today you could afford a flat in Manhattan and a brand new custom-built Les Paul - heck, make that a boatload of brand new custom-built Les Pauls - if you sold your roadworn 1950s Les Paul. That's how valuable they can be today.

Similarly, no new 1980s IIc+s are being made. Reissues/revamps, yes, and even pretty good ones (while the first Les Paul reissues were actually pretty horrible even though Gibson did get it right, eventually, after years of trying). But they are not the same thing as an original. The prices of original IIc+ units have been steadily creeping higher and higher. Mesa released the Mark V, which - they told us in the manual - totally made those vintage IIc+s obsolete. But the demand and the prices of original IIc+s kept increasing. Now they've released a more accurate modern reissue, so to speak. And the prices of original IIc+ units didn't take hit - quite the contrary, they are going for more than ever before. It's a fairly safe bet that 20 years from now, original IIc+s will be going for a lot more than JP-2Cs - if someone is willing to let one go.

Besides, Mesa amps are notoriously tough to kill. Aside from seriously damaged or burnt units, chances are that a 1980s IIc+ is in perfect working condition today, if it's been properly handled and maintained. The only maintenance I've ever had to do on my IIc+ has been retubing. The amp hasn't even needed a cap job as long as I've had it.

I'm not saying there's a 'right' or a 'wrong' choice here, just pointing out that there is more than one side to it.

One final point...

SamuelJ86 said:

I think simulclass benifits lead players and class A/B pentode favors rhythm players.

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Simulclass mainly benefits Hetfield fanboiz.

If I only had a Delorean. I'd grab a Greys Sports Almanac and a blue book of guitar amps from 2050. :lol: Maybe if Ted McCarty would've stayed at Gibson history would be very different. And Randall Smith is still making c+'s at mesa (with modern features). It is way too early to say how the JP2C will effect the value of the originals. But I agree with you LesPaul70, I would also imagine the originals will always be worth more than the JP2Cs.
I was always looking to buy an original c+ on the internet. If I was shopping as many in person, I would've bought one already. Buying anything sight unseen that's 30 years old... just hard for me to do. There will be a lot of people like me; always wanted one and now they're buying the JP.

SamuelJ86 said:

I was always looking to buy an original c+ on the internet. If I was shopping as many in person, I would've bought one already. Buying anything sight unseen that's 30 years old... just hard for me to do. There will be a lot of people like me; always wanted one and now they're buying the JP.

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+1, that's the boat I'm in. My only "druther" with my JP is I wish it was Simulclass, but it wasn't a big enough deal for me to say no.

Hi folks, just to let you know what I ended up buying: ‘85 Mark III, 105 PT, Simul-Class, GEQ, ++ modded by Mike Bendinelli: http://tinyurl.com/hof7akm
It has Groove Tubes 6L6 CHP in the middle and Marshall branded Winged C EL34 in the outer sockets, but the seller (such a nice guy) also gave me six spare tubes, four of which are Mesa 6L6s (Red/Green), and a pair of Red 5881s. I’ve not experienced those six yet, as the GT/Marshall combo sounds unbelievable. Do you think it could be even better with Mesa 6L6/5881? Either way, I think I’m done with my search for the perfect amp, couldn’t be happier.

Awesome amp!!

I'm also looking to get an early mark III. Where did find it?

Congrats!

Awesome amp!!

I'm also looking to get an early mark III. Where did find it?

Congrats!

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Thanks!

I’ve found it on eBay, but keep an eye on Reverb.com as well.