JP2C vs Mark V

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SamuelJ86

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I bought my mark V new in 2010. And I've had six wonderful years with it. In that time I became a mesa junkie. I learned everything about the company, especially that mythical amp, the c+. It was only made for a short time before being replaced with the mark III, mesa's first 3 channel amp. Then the IV, which was even more versatile. And finally the V, the ultimate in flexibility. I can't help but think that mesa sacrificed some tone for all the flexibility in the V.

The V wins, hands down, in versatility. It does so much so well. From power amp overdrive for that old school crunch, multiple flavors of clean and slightly dirty. Lots of different lead sounds that are very different in tone and especially feel. And I could go on, the V is truly a jack of all trades. But, tone goes to the JP, hands down, no contest. Mesa threw all the bells and whistles out in trade for tone. And I'll take tone all day in my world.

At first, I thought I'd miss the versatility of the V. I was worried about selling it. Would I miss my V down the road? But I feel better and better about the JP everyday I play it. The tone simply outshines the versatility the V offers, and it completely annihilates V's tone, and I love the V's tone! I'm not bashing the V's tone at all, it's amazing, but the JP is in a different league. It's drive is more ballsy, throatier, clear, and just better. I bought the V because of Metallica, and it's flexibility. I wanted the black album and garage days tone. And the V got me closer than I'd ever been, but it was never close enough, it was good but not great. I'd hear songs on the radio that used those old mark tones, like white snake, Metallica and others, and I could never get the V over the edge, something was always missing. I just thought is was recording techniques or studio magic or EQs. But now, with the JP, I'm right there. I can hear the magic I thought was done in the studio, it was in the amp all along. Still might need an EQ to get AJFA tones, lol :lol: There's a great clip on A Year and a Half with Metallica where James is playing where ever I may roam in the studio. I could never get my V to do that tone. James' tone had the growl to it, something extra. It was rounder and more open than anything the V could do. But the JP has it. It's hard to describe, we all hear things different, and I have a bag full of adjectives I could use. But the best way I think to put it is like if you put a new, borla, cat-back exhaust on your v8. It opens up the sound of the engine, it's louder, fatter and more clear and open. You still hear your engines tone, it's just a lot better now. When I play the V, I can hear the JP in there. It's just congested.

In the Mark V manual, Doug says they use his C+ for the tone in the V. His c+ doesn't have a GEQ and those use a different cap that lets less bass through. The GEQ versions use a cap that lets more bass through and slows the attack a little bit. You can hear that in the JP. You know what he's talking about when he says the V's c+ mode is tighter and faster than c+'s that have a GEQ. There's a frequency of tone that is identical in the V and the JP. Kinda in the middle frequency range of both amps you hear the same fundamental tone, but the JP just adds from where the V leaves off. I think that's some of the difference, almost half. The other half is the inherent tone in the V. It's in every channel, every mode. It's this lower treble, upper mid thing. It's basically why I hate edge mode in channel 2. That ugly pointy tone can be heard in all the modes. It's on top of your cleans, making them narrow. It sits in your drive and makes it thin and harsh. It made the amp sound boxy and honky some said. The JP has no hint of this, and it's tone, void of that pointy midrange, is so much fatter and open. Hell, I can play the JP without the GEQ engaged and get a tone I love. That's something I could not do with the V, at all. The V was just plain ugly to listen to without the GEQ, imho :p I'm not a big clean tone person, but the JP is warmer and more open than the V. A much more pleasant clean tone.

I have loved my V for 6 years, and I still do. It has never let me down and I've always loved the tones I got out of it. I think the V is safe. People will keep buying them and keep falling in love with them. It's versatile and has its own killer tone and it's not scared of its new sibling. But I have both sitting in front of me and I have to pick one. The JP's tone is telling me to say goodbye to the V. I don't need all the modes and options the V offers. I just need that crunch the JP delivers so well. I can't imagine a better tone than what I'm getting out of the JP2C. Thanks for reading! I don't know too many guitar geeks so this is my place to get my thoughts out. :mrgreen:
 
Awesome read dude. Everything you say about the V I agree with 100%. You've convinced me to buy a JP-2C
 
What a great read.

I'm a Tri/2:90 man, but the JP2C is very tempting. As usual in the UK, it's the cost of the amp + the hidden import costs + the really nice holiday for me and my wife beforehand :cry:
 
SamuelJ86 said:
The other half is the inherent tone in the V. It's in every channel, every mode. It's this lower treble, upper mid thing. It's basically why I hate edge mode in channel 2. That ugly pointy tone can be heard in all the modes. It's on top of your cleans, making them narrow. It sits in your drive and makes it thin and harsh. It made the amp sound boxy and honky some said.

:lol: I think that's a spot-on summary of the reasons why I love what Svetlana =C= EL34s do to my V. With the stock 6L6s, it is pretty much as bad as you say - a whiny, stinging high-frequency character coloring every channel and mode on the amp.

IOW, yes, I agree with you. 8) But it can be fixed...
 
Cool! i really enjoyed reading your post.

i have an old mesa quad preamp, a triaxis and a mark V; all have similar elements to their tone and feel, and it's easy to tell they are all family:) the quad definately comes closest to those 'master of puppets' sounds, in a similar way you describe it (aggressive/shouty/throaty kinda way)

i have ordered a jp-2c, but it's taking some time over here in europe:)
 
SamuelJ86 said:
I bought my mark V new in 2010. And I've had six wonderful years with it. In that time I became a mesa junkie. I learned everything about the company, especially that mythical amp, the c+. It was only made for a short time before being replaced with the mark III, mesa's first 3 channel amp. Then the IV, which was even more versatile. And finally the V, the ultimate in flexibility. I can't help but think that mesa sacrificed some tone for all the flexibility in the V.

The V wins, hands down, in versatility. It does so much so well. From power amp overdrive for that old school crunch, multiple flavors of clean and slightly dirty. Lots of different lead sounds that are very different in tone and especially feel. And I could go on, the V is truly a jack of all trades. But, tone goes to the JP, hands down, no contest. Mesa threw all the bells and whistles out in trade for tone. And I'll take tone all day in my world.

At first, I thought I'd miss the versatility of the V. I was worried about selling it. Would I miss my V down the road? But I feel better and better about the JP everyday I play it. The tone simply outshines the versatility the V offers, and it completely annihilates V's tone, and I love the V's tone! I'm not bashing the V's tone at all, it's amazing, but the JP is in a different league. It's drive is more ballsy, throatier, clear, and just better. I bought the V because of Metallica, and it's flexibility. I wanted the black album and garage days tone. And the V got me closer than I'd ever been, but it was never close enough, it was good but not great. I'd hear songs on the radio that used those old mark tones, like white snake, Metallica and others, and I could never get the V over the edge, something was always missing. I just thought is was recording techniques or studio magic or EQs. But now, with the JP, I'm right there. I can hear the magic I thought was done in the studio, it was in the amp all along. Still might need an EQ to get AJFA tones, lol :lol: There's a great clip on A Year and a Half with Metallica where James is playing where ever I may roam in the studio. I could never get my V to do that tone. James' tone had the growl to it, something extra. It was rounder and more open than anything the V could do. But the JP has it. It's hard to describe, we all hear things different, and I have a bag full of adjectives I could use. But the best way I think to put it is like if you put a new, borla, cat-back exhaust on your v8. It opens up the sound of the engine, it's louder, fatter and more clear and open. You still hear your engines tone, it's just a lot better now. When I play the V, I can hear the JP in there. It's just congested.

In the Mark V manual, Doug says they use his C+ for the tone in the V. His c+ doesn't have a GEQ and those use a different cap that lets less bass through. The GEQ versions use a cap that lets more bass through and slows the attack a little bit. You can hear that in the JP. You know what he's talking about when he says the V's c+ mode is tighter and faster than c+'s that have a GEQ. There's a frequency of tone that is identical in the V and the JP. Kinda in the middle frequency range of both amps you hear the same fundamental tone, but the JP just adds from where the V leaves off. I think that's some of the difference, almost half. The other half is the inherent tone in the V. It's in every channel, every mode. It's this lower treble, upper mid thing. It's basically why I hate edge mode in channel 2. That ugly pointy tone can be heard in all the modes. It's on top of your cleans, making them narrow. It sits in your drive and makes it thin and harsh. It made the amp sound boxy and honky some said. The JP has no hint of this, and it's tone, void of that pointy midrange, is so much fatter and open. Hell, I can play the JP without the GEQ engaged and get a tone I love. That's something I could not do with the V, at all. The V was just plain ugly to listen to without the GEQ, imho :p I'm not a big clean tone person, but the JP is warmer and more open than the V. A much more pleasant clean tone.

I have loved my V for 6 years, and I still do. It has never let me down and I've always loved the tones I got out of it. I think the V is safe. People will keep buying them and keep falling in love with them. It's versatile and has its own killer tone and it's not scared of its new sibling. But I have both sitting in front of me and I have to pick one. The JP's tone is telling me to say goodbye to the V. I don't need all the modes and options the V offers. I just need that crunch the JP delivers so well. I can't imagine a better tone than what I'm getting out of the JP2C. Thanks for reading! I don't know too many guitar geeks so this is my place to get my thoughts out. :mrgreen:


Enjoy your Honeymoon!!!!

The JP-2C is born of MARK V baby gravy!! I am sure the JP-2C sounds great, but nothing touches a Mark V. Don't sell it.
 
Gizzorge said:
SamuelJ86 said:
I bought my mark V new in 2010. And I've had six wonderful years with it. In that time I became a mesa junkie. I learned everything about the company, especially that mythical amp, the c+. It was only made for a short time before being replaced with the mark III, mesa's first 3 channel amp. Then the IV, which was even more versatile. And finally the V, the ultimate in flexibility. I can't help but think that mesa sacrificed some tone for all the flexibility in the V.

The V wins, hands down, in versatility. It does so much so well. From power amp overdrive for that old school crunch, multiple flavors of clean and slightly dirty. Lots of different lead sounds that are very different in tone and especially feel. And I could go on, the V is truly a jack of all trades. But, tone goes to the JP, hands down, no contest. Mesa threw all the bells and whistles out in trade for tone. And I'll take tone all day in my world.

At first, I thought I'd miss the versatility of the V. I was worried about selling it. Would I miss my V down the road? But I feel better and better about the JP everyday I play it. The tone simply outshines the versatility the V offers, and it completely annihilates V's tone, and I love the V's tone! I'm not bashing the V's tone at all, it's amazing, but the JP is in a different league. It's drive is more ballsy, throatier, clear, and just better. I bought the V because of Metallica, and it's flexibility. I wanted the black album and garage days tone. And the V got me closer than I'd ever been, but it was never close enough, it was good but not great. I'd hear songs on the radio that used those old mark tones, like white snake, Metallica and others, and I could never get the V over the edge, something was always missing. I just thought is was recording techniques or studio magic or EQs. But now, with the JP, I'm right there. I can hear the magic I thought was done in the studio, it was in the amp all along. Still might need an EQ to get AJFA tones, lol :lol: There's a great clip on A Year and a Half with Metallica where James is playing where ever I may roam in the studio. I could never get my V to do that tone. James' tone had the growl to it, something extra. It was rounder and more open than anything the V could do. But the JP has it. It's hard to describe, we all hear things different, and I have a bag full of adjectives I could use. But the best way I think to put it is like if you put a new, borla, cat-back exhaust on your v8. It opens up the sound of the engine, it's louder, fatter and more clear and open. You still hear your engines tone, it's just a lot better now. When I play the V, I can hear the JP in there. It's just congested.

In the Mark V manual, Doug says they use his C+ for the tone in the V. His c+ doesn't have a GEQ and those use a different cap that lets less bass through. The GEQ versions use a cap that lets more bass through and slows the attack a little bit. You can hear that in the JP. You know what he's talking about when he says the V's c+ mode is tighter and faster than c+'s that have a GEQ. There's a frequency of tone that is identical in the V and the JP. Kinda in the middle frequency range of both amps you hear the same fundamental tone, but the JP just adds from where the V leaves off. I think that's some of the difference, almost half. The other half is the inherent tone in the V. It's in every channel, every mode. It's this lower treble, upper mid thing. It's basically why I hate edge mode in channel 2. That ugly pointy tone can be heard in all the modes. It's on top of your cleans, making them narrow. It sits in your drive and makes it thin and harsh. It made the amp sound boxy and honky some said. The JP has no hint of this, and it's tone, void of that pointy midrange, is so much fatter and open. Hell, I can play the JP without the GEQ engaged and get a tone I love. That's something I could not do with the V, at all. The V was just plain ugly to listen to without the GEQ, imho :p I'm not a big clean tone person, but the JP is warmer and more open than the V. A much more pleasant clean tone.

I have loved my V for 6 years, and I still do. It has never let me down and I've always loved the tones I got out of it. I think the V is safe. People will keep buying them and keep falling in love with them. It's versatile and has its own killer tone and it's not scared of its new sibling. But I have both sitting in front of me and I have to pick one. The JP's tone is telling me to say goodbye to the V. I don't need all the modes and options the V offers. I just need that crunch the JP delivers so well. I can't imagine a better tone than what I'm getting out of the JP2C. Thanks for reading! I don't know too many guitar geeks so this is my place to get my thoughts out. :mrgreen:


Enjoy your Honeymoon!!!!

The JP-2C is born of MARK V baby gravy!! I am sure the JP-2C sounds great, but nothing touches a Mark V. Don't sell it.

I'd have to disagree on that! Not taking anything away from the Mark Five, but the Mark Five had NOTHING to do with the JP-2C!
 
Glad you like it so much, but they really are two different animals. The V is much more versatile and can sound incredible in every mode if you know what your doing and have the right equipment to go along with it. El34's, coil tap pickups, ts-808, a touch of chorus and delay, and a wah, and nothing is sacrificed as far as tone. I can get a god like tone in any genre, and put a band around it and you will not be able to really tell the difference between the two amps in limited applications because the V can do so much more. Same with recording were the characteristics can get lost in the mix. Seriously, take the 2c+ in the V with some light effects and a band vs the jp2c with the same and could you really tell much difference between them? There are very few players that use no effects and almost no recording done with no effects so the V should not be disrespected, and it is still the king!
 
yes, i tried it next to a v and the jp2c definitely sounded better than the 2c+ mode in the v, but i actually preferred the iv mode better side by side. maybe i'm not a 2c+ guy though because i rarely use it on my v as i prefer iv and extreme much more. i thought the fat mode sounded much better then the clean on the jp2c. i didn't try any effects though and i only had about an hour with it.
 
SamuelJ86 said:
I bought my mark V new in 2010. And I've had six wonderful years with it. In that time I became a mesa junkie. I learned everything about the company, especially that mythical amp, the c+. It was only made for a short time before being replaced with the mark III, mesa's first 3 channel amp. Then the IV, which was even more versatile. And finally the V, the ultimate in flexibility. I can't help but think that mesa sacrificed some tone for all the flexibility in the V.

The V wins, hands down, in versatility. It does so much so well. From power amp overdrive for that old school crunch, multiple flavors of clean and slightly dirty. Lots of different lead sounds that are very different in tone and especially feel. And I could go on, the V is truly a jack of all trades. But, tone goes to the JP, hands down, no contest. Mesa threw all the bells and whistles out in trade for tone. And I'll take tone all day in my world.

At first, I thought I'd miss the versatility of the V. I was worried about selling it. Would I miss my V down the road? But I feel better and better about the JP everyday I play it. The tone simply outshines the versatility the V offers, and it completely annihilates V's tone, and I love the V's tone! I'm not bashing the V's tone at all, it's amazing, but the JP is in a different league. It's drive is more ballsy, throatier, clear, and just better. I bought the V because of Metallica, and it's flexibility. I wanted the black album and garage days tone. And the V got me closer than I'd ever been, but it was never close enough, it was good but not great. I'd hear songs on the radio that used those old mark tones, like white snake, Metallica and others, and I could never get the V over the edge, something was always missing. I just thought is was recording techniques or studio magic or EQs. But now, with the JP, I'm right there. I can hear the magic I thought was done in the studio, it was in the amp all along. Still might need an EQ to get AJFA tones, lol :lol: There's a great clip on A Year and a Half with Metallica where James is playing where ever I may roam in the studio. I could never get my V to do that tone. James' tone had the growl to it, something extra. It was rounder and more open than anything the V could do. But the JP has it. It's hard to describe, we all hear things different, and I have a bag full of adjectives I could use. But the best way I think to put it is like if you put a new, borla, cat-back exhaust on your v8. It opens up the sound of the engine, it's louder, fatter and more clear and open. You still hear your engines tone, it's just a lot better now. When I play the V, I can hear the JP in there. It's just congested.

In the Mark V manual, Doug says they use his C+ for the tone in the V. His c+ doesn't have a GEQ and those use a different cap that lets less bass through. The GEQ versions use a cap that lets more bass through and slows the attack a little bit. You can hear that in the JP. You know what he's talking about when he says the V's c+ mode is tighter and faster than c+'s that have a GEQ. There's a frequency of tone that is identical in the V and the JP. Kinda in the middle frequency range of both amps you hear the same fundamental tone, but the JP just adds from where the V leaves off. I think that's some of the difference, almost half. The other half is the inherent tone in the V. It's in every channel, every mode. It's this lower treble, upper mid thing. It's basically why I hate edge mode in channel 2. That ugly pointy tone can be heard in all the modes. It's on top of your cleans, making them narrow. It sits in your drive and makes it thin and harsh. It made the amp sound boxy and honky some said. The JP has no hint of this, and it's tone, void of that pointy midrange, is so much fatter and open. Hell, I can play the JP without the GEQ engaged and get a tone I love. That's something I could not do with the V, at all. The V was just plain ugly to listen to without the GEQ, imho :p I'm not a big clean tone person, but the JP is warmer and more open than the V. A much more pleasant clean tone.

I have loved my V for 6 years, and I still do. It has never let me down and I've always loved the tones I got out of it. I think the V is safe. People will keep buying them and keep falling in love with them. It's versatile and has its own killer tone and it's not scared of its new sibling. But I have both sitting in front of me and I have to pick one. The JP's tone is telling me to say goodbye to the V. I don't need all the modes and options the V offers. I just need that crunch the JP delivers so well. I can't imagine a better tone than what I'm getting out of the JP2C. Thanks for reading! I don't know too many guitar geeks so this is my place to get my thoughts out. :mrgreen:

This is exactly why I sold so many of my other amps. Super 2C+ (JP-2C) was what I was looking for the whole time. I don't need the others anymore. I think Mesa really felt that flexibility was where to take the Mark line next after the IIC+, especially after the advent of the recitifier line, but the IIC+ sound is the real deal and the others just don't hit it.

I took a gamble because I respect JP and didn't believe he'd put his own name on something that didn't hit the mark (wow, no pun intended there, but, well, there it is). I won that gamble.
 
I'd have to disagree on that! Not taking anything away from the Mark Five, but the Mark Five had NOTHING to do with the JP-2C![/quote]

How so, explain? I find that hard to believe.

I would say it has direct lineage from Mark V and Mark V 25 features, with extra JP goodies like the extra EQ/midi, etc....

Pretty sure they idea was sparked off of JP playing the Mark V 25....

It is a great amp, but, c'mon, it's no Mark V.
 
kreatorkills said:
Glad you like it so much, but they really are two different animals. The V is much more versatile and can sound incredible in every mode if you know what your doing and have the right equipment to go along with it. El34's, coil tap pickups, ts-808, a touch of chorus and delay, and a wah, and nothing is sacrificed as far as tone. I can get a god like tone in any genre, and put a band around it and you will not be able to really tell the difference between the two amps in limited applications because the V can do so much more. Same with recording were the characteristics can get lost in the mix. Seriously, take the 2c+ in the V with some light effects and a band vs the jp2c with the same and could you really tell much difference between them? There are very few players that use no effects and almost no recording done with no effects so the V should not be disrespected, and it is still the king!


HAIL THE MARK V!!!
 
Gizzorge said:
I'd have to disagree on that! Not taking anything away from the Mark Five, but the Mark Five had NOTHING to do with the JP-2C!

How so, explain? I find that hard to believe.

I would say it has direct lineage from Mark V and Mark V 25 features, with extra JP goodies like the extra EQ/midi, etc....

Pretty sure they idea was sparked off of JP playing the Mark V 25....

It is a great amp, but, c'mon, it's no Mark V.[/quote]

How so? Easy - The Mark Five is a "Greatest Hits" collection of Mark Series circuits over the last 40 years, plus some new modes unique unto itself - with many modern features. Its got a ton of flexibility and is certainly unmatched in that regard. The JP-2C is directly descended from JP's favorite Mark IIC+ in a format that is much more usable than an original IIC+. The idea was "sparked" by a mutual quest between JP and Mesa to resurrect the classic IIC+, which he's been using for many, many years....long before a Mark Five or Mark Five: 25! The preamp circuits and layout are different, the power section is different, the switching options are different. Again, not taking anything away from the Mark Five..but these are very different animals altogether.
 
kreatorkills said:
yes, i tried it next to a v and the jp2c definitely sounded better than the 2c+ mode in the v, but i actually preferred the iv mode better side by side. maybe i'm not a 2c+ guy though because i rarely use it on my v as i prefer iv and extreme much more. i thought the fat mode sounded much better then the clean on the jp2c. i didn't try any effects though and i only had about an hour with it.

I think you need to give the JP2C another shot! If you're a fan of the mark V's heavy tones, the JP should have made your head explode! Its that good. I don't even think that's my opinion, it's a fact. The JP just does it better. It has the best qualities of each mode in the V's third channel. It has the aggressiveness of the c+ mode, the warmth and fluid smoothness of the mark iv mode and the thunk and chunk balls of the extreme mode. Then it has its own special raw, open, clear sound. Anybody who owns a V that plays one of these and says they prefer the tones they get on the V better, I just can't belive them. :p You gotta give it another go man, I think Petrucci is right when he said in the manual that this might be the greatest guitar amp ever built!

It dials in pretty close to the V's lead channel as far as clock face on the controls. And I can't tell if the GEQ is a little touchier or if the amp just has more to EQ. Funny story though. I dialed in my les paul in no time on the first day. I decided I was going to use it for channel 2 and my Alexi model guitar (Jackson RR1 style) for channel 3, because I have it tuned to drop B :shock: It was taking me forever to get a good tone out of it on channel 3. It was just too fat, I couldn't tighten it up. I tried everything. I started to think this amp can't do drop tunes worth a crap. On the V, in Mark iv mode I would use this guitar with the gain on 12 o'clock. Finally I rolled the gain back and found my tone. At just under 9 o clock!!! And that's without the gain knob pulled! It was strange because with the gain on about 11 o'clock it didn't sound like it had too much. This thing has sooo much gain it is stupid. Now I have a blackout pickup and a slight gain boost built in the guitar, without the boost, gain would've been on about 10 o'clock. Still, a lot lower than I'm used to. So with that preset gain set a notch or two higher in the amp, you have to remember that and set it a little lower than you're used to in the V. I just can't belive how much gain this amp has. And it doesn't turn to complete mush, it's amazing.
 
I put Vintage 6L6's in it after about 5 minutes.... Can an amp be too smooth :mrgreen: Me likey!
 
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