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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:34 am 
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Dual Recto
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:18 pm
Posts: 2967
Location: Weinerpeg MB Canada
DWAKO wrote:
I'm honestly quite content with the clean channel, it's the gain channels, mainly Vintage Hi, I would prefer to have a more open top end glass/presence. Of course I come from using a Mark V and Stiletto which are naturally quite bright. But the tube layout is super helpful in knowing where it's best to invest my money. Thanks! If I do end up purchasing some speakers, I'll be sure to record the differences.


Man, you've been playing amp swap quite a lot, huh? I'm pretty sure I've seen you with a Recto, a Mark V, an Electra Dyne, and the Royal Atlantic. I personally find holding onto my Recto and my Electra Dyne to be quite useful. Also, having a few guitars with different pickup configurations is helpful as well along with my boost pedal!

The Tung Sol sounds great in v1 for a recto but I don't know if an RA or Electra Dyne would benefit from that.

What sort of pickups are you using? Tried a boost?

On topic, I hear the G12H - 75 sounds killer when blended with a v30. It's honestly half tempting to try it out.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:59 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:54 pm
Posts: 250
Quote:

DWAKO wrote:
I'm honestly quite content with the clean channel, it's the gain channels, mainly Vintage Hi, I would prefer to have a more open top end glass/presence. Of course I come from using a Mark V and Stiletto which are naturally quite bright. But the tube layout is super helpful in knowing where it's best to invest my money. Thanks! If I do end up purchasing some speakers, I'll be sure to record the differences.


Man, you've been playing amp swap quite a lot, huh? I'm pretty sure I've seen you with a Recto, a Mark V, an Electra Dyne, and the Royal Atlantic. I personally find holding onto my Recto and my Electra Dyne to be quite useful. Also, having a few guitars with different pickup configurations is helpful as well along with my boost pedal!

The Tung Sol sounds great in v1 for a recto but I don't know if an RA or Electra Dyne would benefit from that.

What sort of pickups are you using? Tried a boost?

On topic, I hear the G12H - 75 sounds killer when blended with a v30. It's honestly half tempting to try it out.




Yeah a year or two back I did a bunch of swapping and trading of amps to more or less just try a bunch of different things and honestly learn what I like. All of those amps have qualities I love, the Mark V is still one of my favorites. But at the end of the day I have had the Royal for a while now and I'm sticking with it. It combines the best of everything that I like better than any amp I've tried so far. I've just never really dug into speaker/tube swapping. So it's something new to learn about, and I want to get the most out of the Royal. I've always liked Tung Sols, you really can't go wrong with them. I'm happy with my pickups, still using the BKs thanks to you Yellowjacket, the Rebel Yell bridge and Painkiller Bridge are my current favorites, I really dig the Nail Bombs as well, both Alnico and Ceramic. I've used the V30/G12H-75 combo in a 4x12 cab before, sounded great. But I'm mainly using 2x12s these days.

_________________
Past Amps:
2004 Mesa Triple Rectifier
2000 Mesa Nomad 100
2009 Mesa Electra Dyne
2012 Mesa RA-100
2012 Mesa Mark V
2007 Mesa Stiletto Deuce II
2014 Rectoverb 25 Head
PRS Archon 50 Head

Current Amp
Mesa MultiWatt Dual Rec


Guitar Cab:
Mesa Road King 2x12


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:39 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
Just for fun, I did run the RA100 Combo though a single speaker (that was currently housed in my Mark V combo amp).

First up was the Jensen Jet Blackbird 100W Alnico speaker: Not bad on the clean channel, actually sounded amazing as I did not expect the difference to be that dramatic. However, the blackbird is too dark of a speaker for the heavy mid laden signal of the RA100 as the blackbird speaker is very close in frequency response as the EVM12L speaker. I have those too but did not like the RA100 with the EV speaker.

Second up was the Celestion Cream Alnico 90W speaker: I was hoping for a difference in tone from this one. However it too sounds sonically similar to the EV and the blackbird but with more emphasis on the lower to middle midrange. I actually prefer it with the Mark V combo as it remains tight on the bottom end with higher gain settings on CH2 and CH3. I will have to try it again once I break in the speaker. Still prefer the G12H75 Creamback as I like that gooey think tone and yet retain clarity I can dial in with the Hi gain setting. The G12H75 Creamback is that much different than the Celestion Cream Alnico as the G12H75 seems to have a bit of scooped tone but yet responds quite well with the RA100. The Celestion Cream does not hold back on its full range of tone so you will get tonal emphasis where you may not desire it. Speaker choice is subjective so perhaps the Celestion Cream Alnico 90W would be different in your application. I have not tried the Cream in a sealed enclosure so that may be quite different in character than it is in an open backed combo amp. I am assuming it would sound similar to the RA100 Combo as that is not completely closed off either but not as open as the Mark V.

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:39 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
After a few days experimenting with this and that... of course the G12H-75 Creambacks remained in my RA100 Combo, I wanted something different for the Roadster as well. Currently I have a mix of V30 and EVM12L which sounds ok, better than all V30 or EV's in an oversized Recto cabinet. I will be moving onto the next step and getting two more G12H-75 creambacks (8 ohm versions ) to pair up with two V30's and hope for the best. I did spend some time with the Roadster head sitting on top of the RA100 Combo, The Creambacks sound much better than I first thought with the Roadster than they did after changing a few preamp tubes in the DR. I prefer the way the Creamback G12H75 are made in comparison to the Celestion Cream Alnico 90W, other than the paint and magnet driver, it is the rubber gasket on the Creamback (looks more like cork) that is better for sealed cabinet vs the waxy stacked paper gasket used on the Alnico Cream. Getting a good seal with the stacked paper gasket is difficult (issue I had with the EV as well as the Jensen Blackbird). Also the rubber gasket acts as a damper on the baffle vs the hard paper. Also, you can remove the speaker if it has a rubber gasket and it remains intact on the speaker vs half of it peeling off and sticking to the baffle board as paper gaskets tend to split after they have been compressed. I can't wait to get them and hear the difference to the all stock recto cab I recently bought to match the RA100 head.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
Bump.

This amp is still sweet. I had compared the combo with the Creambacks to the head driving the Horizontal 212 cab. Also tried the Horizontal with the combo speakers (at 4 ohms). WOW! that was ideal. Not sure why it took me this long to compare the Horizontal cab with the RA combo. Must have been preoccupied with something else. I actually prefer the Horizontal 212 over the OSR 412. Actually both are great with the RA.

Yeah, I still play though my RA's even after getting the JP-2C.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:05 am
Posts: 741
Location: Central NJ
I've had mixed results with the Royal but one of the best rigs I ever played through was a Royal Atlantic combo but with a Mesa 2:90 poweramp taking the slave out and feeding a pair of 4x12's and using a Rocktron Intellifex for some stereo delay. So it was basically a W/D/W setup. It simply sounded incredible, of course dragging all that anywhere would be a huge PITA.

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MarkIIC+,III, IV and V, ED clips here.

http://soundcloud.com/danieldowning


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:30 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
Hey Danyeo1, I listened to your soundcloud recordings. They were all great.

The RA100 is a class on its own. Not quite Marshall sounding and not quite Mesa sounding. The Creambacks in the combo give it more of a vintage vibe. I just could not bond with the V30 in an open back format. They were not bad but seemed to lack the same character when they are in a sealed 212 cabinet. I did have the V30 back in for a short while so I could compare the combo to the horizontal 212 cab. If the combo was a sealed back like the Roadster combo is, I would have left all as is. The same could be said about the Creambacks. Not bad in a sealed OS recto cab but seemed to lack what I was getting in the open back combo. I did not care for them in the OS 412 with the RA100 head as much as the V30 loaded 412.

One of these days I will get the TC-50 but for some reason I am holding off for what may come next in the series. Actually I am considering another drum set so it is either $2k for that or 1.7k for the TC-50. Hard call for me.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
TC-50 has won me over. A few days ago I removed the Cream back G12H-75 and re-installed the original V30s. New tubes all Mesa and may end up selling the combo. The Head is a keeper so I really do not need two of them. May hold on to the combo for a bit longer though as it is fun to play. Also it is in the family room and the head is back on top of the 412 cab in the studio. I like the lighter TC-50 as that is much easier to move around along with the Vertical 212. May have to fix this issue as I have no place to put the JP-2C. Time for another Vertical 212 cab. Wonder what two would sound like? Awesome as I ran both the vert 212 and the Horizontal 212 at the same time. Way better than the 412 cab on its own. Smaller cabs have more bottom end. Event the RA combo sounded amazing using the horizontal cab as an extension. Perhaps there is hope in keeping it as having two RA100's does not bother me by any means. What is cool about it, one has a different set to tubes and is a beast through the 412 so it is like having two different amps anyway.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:14 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:56 am
Posts: 133
bandit2013 wrote:
I was debating if I should go with the G12H-65 (based on the greenback speaker) since it had a brighter or pushed mids at the upper end. However, based on a recommendation from someone here (CORY) I chose the G12H-75 Creamback speakers. Thanks a lot Cory, I am very happy I came across your thread. I ordered the speakers that arrived today. Before I made any changes I decided to get some recordings of before an after. As a bench mark I rolled out the big brother to the combo for a side by side comparison. Both amps sound identical thought the 412 cabinet (head has Mesa EL34, Combo has Tung Sol EL34B due to low mechanical noise). What I really wanted was the same tonal character I get from the oversized Mesa cab. The stock V30 in the combo seem to be too rich in the midrange frequencies that drown out the top end. Typically I have to dial down the treble, but found I had to add more treble with the combo. The Celestion G12H-75 Creamback speakers deliver the Mesa 412 character perfectly. The Creamback speaker has a good balance of mids to treble and a bit more bass. I believe the Creamback offers a better tonal range for the RA100 Combo. Again, THANK YOU CORY for the recommendation. 8)


For starters, I match the settings on the combo that I normally use with the RA Head and made a few recordings. I used the Vintage Lo (blue) for the recording and a superstrat with single coil sized humbuckers. As for the mic's, I used a Shure Sm57 at the center of one of the speakers, an EV RE320 at the midpoint between edge and dust cap of the other speaker, and at 6 ft distance a RODE NT1-A and blended it all together during the mixdown. I do not think the recordings turned out as I had hope they would. Also had the reverb on which was not supposed to be active (so I left it on for the rest). Yes I do need to practice but figured to play something that sounds familiar even though I really do not know the songs all that well.

Benchmark: RA100 combo amp channeled though Mesa OS Recto Cab
https://soundcloud.com/user-353100000/ra412wav

Stock RA100 Combo
https://soundcloud.com/user-353100000/racombov30wav

Modified RA100 Combo with pair Creamback G12H-75
https://soundcloud.com/user-353100000/racreambackswav



Hi bandit,the links to soundcloud dont seem to work anymore.Im curious how thRA sounds with the creamback.any chance of another quick recording?Cheers


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:34 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
I can add those back to the Soundcloud if I still have them. I probably will not make another recording with the G12H75 creambacks as all of them are back in the boxes they came in. I favored the EV in the 412 format with the Roadster and the JP-2c along with the Mark V. That was not complementary with the RA in the 412 cab. The combo seemed to have a different character due to open back 212 setting, but it mattered what tubes you ran for best results. The Mullard EL34 were king with the Creamback. SED =C= were much better with the V30. EH or Mesa EL34 once they get some hours on them sounded better with the V30. Also the sensitivity of the Creamback is a bit lower and almost sounds like a 3 to 5 dB drop in volume level. Odd that the V30 sounded terrible in the combo when I got it (used) but it had some poor solder joints and questionable solder used to connect the wires. May have had different speakers in it before it was sold and then restored before selling to Guitar Center.

I will see if I can find the files by may have to delete something on sound cloud.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:49 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
I will have to do another recording as the files are no longer on my hard drive or on the SD cards. Sorry. I did delete two tracks on soundcloud. Not sure what my limit is as I think it is 10 tracks. Will have to do a combination and throw in the TC50 on top (was planning on doing this but I removed the CB from the combo). Would love to get a recording of the Beast in all of its glory (RA100 head with an interesting array of preamp tubes and SED =C= EL34 pushing the OS recto 412 with V30) TC-50 can't touch that one but it has its own awesomeness that rivals the RA and vs versa. May take a few hours as I would have to record the V30 in the combo first, then remove speakers and install the G12H75 CB. A bit more than I may be willing to do today. Perhaps next weekend as I will have more time.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:55 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:56 am
Posts: 133
Nice one Bandit.Cheers


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:07 pm 
Offline
Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
This one is longer than I expected. Took a while as I had to remove the V30 from the Combo to install the G12H75 Cream Backs. I started with the recording using the V30, A pair of the Audix D2 drum mics (these little babies sound great) and a NT1-A condenser mic about 6 ft for reference. Should have moved into the studio to do this but I am lazy (reason I should have moved is the family room has many glass artifacts on the shelves that vibrate and the reference mic did pick some of that up, bummer). Actually it sounds better on sound cloud than it did during the mixdown and mastering.

Unfortunately I did not get the Beast into this one. Beast is the RA100 head with SED =c= EL34 and a full complement of various preamp tubes that really makes the amp sing. Another bummer. That may happen sooner or later.... I did manage to squeeze the TC-50 at the end though both the G12H75 Cream backs and the Vertical 212 cab.

https://soundcloud.com/user-353100000/r ... cb-tc50wav

I will have to revisit the SM57 again with the new mixer and see how that compares. At least I do not have to install the G12H75 CB speakers again. What I did notice the lack of fizzy tone with the CB vs V30. It could be a result of the mics I used. Also did not seem to notice the volume level difference this time. Must be the new tubes in the amp with the exception of the EL34 which do have some hours on them.

_________________
Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:29 am 
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Mark II

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:56 am
Posts: 133
Ah thanks so much bandit.I didnt realise ya had gone to so much trouble removing speakers.Ill have a good listen now.Cheers


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:53 am 
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Dual Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 2645
Location: North Carolina
I may not take them out now that I think they sound better. Had to look twice to make sure I did install the Creambacks. Recordings do not reflect the tone exactly. I was running the amp on the hot side though and not as conservative as I did the first time I make those recordings you referenced.

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Current amps:
TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100
Old friends I sometimes miss:
Mk III (blue stripe), Mark IVb-WB


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