Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

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KH Guitar Freak
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by KH Guitar Freak » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:58 am

Thing is though, a lot of classic tunes even with crunch tones have been through V30 speakers... 8)

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by screamingdaisy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:13 am

KH Guitar Freak wrote:Thing is though, a lot of classic tunes even with crunch tones have been through V30 speakers... 8)
Which flavor of V30? There's a distinct difference in tone and response between the Marshall, Mesa and regular off the shelf version.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by Heritage Softail » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:56 am

screamingdaisy wrote:
J.J wrote: Then there are the speakers and cabs. I have not heard Mesa claim to have a "Brit" cab. And if they did, would it be loaded with Greenbacks, Blues, G75s or perhaps non Celestion speakers ? Would it be open back or closed back ?
When a Plexi won't crunch through a Recto cab why the hell would a Stiletto?

I think a lot of people overlook the speaker part of the equation and it's contribution to the final sound.

There are a few components to getting a vibe. I think you are all over it on the cab element. I spent a bit of time yesterday working with this old beat to hell Matchless 2x12 cab I have. Ran the IIC thru it and on the clean channel, MV up a bit and channel volume down, it had a nice old school organic crunch. Not exactly Marshall.

The best old Marshall amps IMO are Friedman and Germino, of the ones I have been able to play. Germino Clubman is one of those amp that makes you want to play for hours.

The Mesa take on Brit is OK. It just is not excellent for what is the vintage or modern higher gain Brit. Check out the Cameron Atomica. Holy crap that amp sounds like Jose modded it himself.

Mesa is great with the lone star family. The mini Recto sounds great and the EL 84 tube set brings in a different kind of power section distortion. I would not be surprised if that amp does not make waves in popularity.

The Mesa and Metal comment is the highest praise. Any company that reaches icon status has arrived. I feel that Mesa should continue to lead the evolution of metal with new products in that area and remain king. Another cool thing I am seeing is that as new country music gets more rock in it, you see more Mesa gear on stage. Pretty cool...
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by YellowJacket » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:54 am

Hmmm. I was listening to some Heartbreaker clips the other day and it became apparent to me that this amp was the predecessor to the Electra Dyne. Also, I noted that the Heartbreaker sounds fantastic. When I was first amp shopping I overlooked it and bought a Dual Rectifier. I thought the name / design was tacky and I simply HAD to have that Recto tone. I fought for my Recto for 10 years and was never really satisfied. Then I plugged into an Electra Dyne and I HAD to have it. Now, the recto gets powered up about once every week or two, when I want to play metal.

The Electra Dyne is -in my opinion- one of the top production amps available right now and it will easily hang with hand wired options like Top Hats. I absolutely love that the Electra Dyne is not a re-tread of classic brit tones but rather, it is a re-imagining of them. The unique voice really gives a personal tone to a guitarist. I have yet to try a Royal Atlantic because I am afraid I'll like to too much and 'NEED' to have it.

In my opinion, the problem is brand association. Mesa is known for the Mark series and Recto series, and any product that is a departure from this is something people cannot adequately grasp. I talked to one guy who was looking for guitar gear and he claimed that mesa was not 'his sound'. While that is fine and I can respect that sentiment, he was using it as an excuse not to try an Electra Dyne, an amp that is decidedly NOT a traditional Mesa tone. If the Electra Dyne catches on, I'm sure MANY people will want one. If not, anyone who buys one will have a really unique signature guitar tone.

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by JOEY B. » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:13 pm

Heritage Softail wrote: Make a MKIIC+R. Make it awesome!
If that ever did happen, I see it being on a custom shop, build to order basis. The reality of it is that "crow" has a bitter taste to it, and nobody at MESA wants to eat it.

I do love my RA-100, loaded with STR-416's and various non-stock preamp tubes. 8)
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by YellowJacket » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:13 pm

JOEY B. wrote:
Heritage Softail wrote: Make a MKIIC+R. Make it awesome!
If that ever did happen, I see it being on a custom shop, build to order basis. The reality of it is that "crow" has a bitter taste to it, and nobody at MESA wants to eat it.

I do love my RA-100, loaded with STR-416's and various non-stock preamp tubes. 8)
But how many people would eat crow if there were $$$$$$$$$$$$$s attached to it? You'd think Mesa would re-release the amp if there was sufficient money in it.

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by KH Guitar Freak » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:34 pm

screamingdaisy wrote:
KH Guitar Freak wrote:Thing is though, a lot of classic tunes even with crunch tones have been through V30 speakers... 8)
Which flavor of V30? There's a distinct difference in tone and response between the Marshall, Mesa and regular off the shelf version.
I would think it would have more to do with the construction of the cabs than the speakers themselves. I don't see how the Mesa cab can't crunch nicely however. Works great with plenty of amps...

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by screamingdaisy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:27 pm

KH Guitar Freak wrote: I would think it would have more to do with the construction of the cabs than the speakers themselves. I don't see how the Mesa cab can't crunch nicely however. Works great with plenty of amps...
They're totally different speakers. Just looking at them side by side you can see they're not even made the same. In order to avoid pulling this one off topic I stuck the comparison in another thread;


http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.ph ... 88&start=0
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by J.J » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:04 pm

YellowJacket wrote:Hmmm. I was listening to some Heartbreaker clips the other day and it became apparent to me that this amp was the predecessor to the Electra Dyne. Also, I noted that the Heartbreaker sounds fantastic. When I was first amp shopping I overlooked it and bought a Dual Rectifier.
I have wondered the same about the Heartbreaker. It does seem to be the start of the American and Brit tones in one box for Mesa.

People often tell me "Mesa's not my thing, I tried one once and didn't like it" which makes me smile. I'm not a die hard Loyal Mesa guy, but every time I have gone amp shopping in the last few years the Mesa amps stood out for me, having the tones, features and quality level for the money.
The Mesa and Metal comment is the highest praise. Any company that reaches icon status has arrived. I feel that Mesa should continue to lead the evolution of metal with new products in that area and remain king. Another cool thing I am seeing is that as new country music gets more rock in it, you see more Mesa gear on stage. Pretty cool...
When I was buying my RA-100 a guy from a local country band had just traded his Fender amp (I think thats what he had) for an RA-100 because he needed more aggressive tones as well as the great clean.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by J.J » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:06 pm

screamingdaisy wrote:
KH Guitar Freak wrote:Thing is though, a lot of classic tunes even with crunch tones have been through V30 speakers... 8)
Which flavor of V30? There's a distinct difference in tone and response between the Marshall, Mesa and regular off the shelf version.
+1
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by JOEY B. » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:28 pm

YellowJacket wrote:
JOEY B. wrote:
Heritage Softail wrote: Make a MKIIC+R. Make it awesome!
If that ever did happen, I see it being on a custom shop, build to order basis. The reality of it is that "crow" has a bitter taste to it, and nobody at MESA wants to eat it.

I do love my RA-100, loaded with STR-416's and various non-stock preamp tubes. 8)
But how many people would eat crow if there were $$$$$$$$$$$$$s attached to it? You'd think Mesa would re-release the amp if there was sufficient money in it.

And therin lies the quandry. An HONEST re-issue would have to sell for $3500+ in order to justify all the labor put into it. How many 2-channel amps would be sold at that price point? :shock:
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by thunda1216 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:13 pm

do they *really* have "brit tone quest?" maybe they just want a combination of nice usable clean channel and nice overdriven channel. which works for me. if I really wanted "brit" tone, I would have a Marshall. Don't. Don't want one. Borrowed a Silver Jubilee once when my Heartbreaker blew a rectifier tube and was NOT impressed. Cleans=meh. Distortion=meh. NO boost. Blah. One trick pony. That's why I keep coming back to the Mesa.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by KH Guitar Freak » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:03 pm

screamingdaisy wrote:
KH Guitar Freak wrote: I would think it would have more to do with the construction of the cabs than the speakers themselves. I don't see how the Mesa cab can't crunch nicely however. Works great with plenty of amps...
They're totally different speakers. Just looking at them side by side you can see they're not even made the same. In order to avoid pulling this one off topic I stuck the comparison in another thread;


http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.ph ... 88&start=0
Yes, but I'm pretty sure the Mesa and Marshall cabs sounds vastly different because of the construction itself...

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by Heritage Softail » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:36 am

On the selling point of 3500 for a MKIIC+R:

They would sell. An SLO is a few bucks but there are many out there. I knew the IIC high gain tone to expect when I found my IIC. The clean channel is what was the stunning surprise. Diezel and Bogner are pricey. If Mesa put out a 3 channel version, true to the original and with a modern metal 3rd... That could be the MKVI. The giant killer.

I could sell my Uberschall TJ! When you think about the money people like us spend getting the 3 or so main tones, to hit it flush on all 3 with one quality amp for 4K. That is worth it. Pretty much the idea behind the Bogner Ecstacy 20th anniversary amps.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by JOEY B. » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:55 am

Heritage Softail wrote:On the selling point of 3500 for a MKIIC+R:

They would sell. An SLO is a few bucks but there are many out there. I knew the IIC high gain tone to expect when I found my IIC. The clean channel is what was the stunning surprise. Diezel and Bogner are pricey. If Mesa put out a 3 channel version, true to the original and with a modern metal 3rd... That could be the MKVI. The giant killer.
3 channel??? I said an honest re-issue, complete with shared tone controls and all. How was the clean channel on the IIC a surprise? It's based on a Fender amp. :shock:

As far as MESA "Brit" tone goes, my RA-100 has a great clean channel with reverb, unlike many of the "Super Lead 100" clones. So I guess a compromise will be in order. 8)
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