Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

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danyeo1
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Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by danyeo1 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:27 pm

They stopped making the Stilleto's I beleive. Any Electra Dyne I've seen in Guitar Centers are being marked down to $1100 from $1900 because they're not selling. And I haven't seen one Royal Atlantic anywhere, and I have close to 7 Guitar Centers within an hour from my house. Plus, the prices of used Royal Atlantic is dropping quick. One sold for $1400 on Ebay and I've seen another one going for around $1500 on a gear forum.

And on most neutral forums when Mesa is mentioned it's usually the Mark series or Recto's. Mesa talked a big game in the Brit market but it seems like it hasn't worked out for them. What are your opinions?
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by SonVolt » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:27 pm

danyeo1 wrote:They stopped making the Stilleto's I beleive. Any Electra Dyne I've seen in Guitar Centers are being marked down to $1100 from $1900 because they're not selling. And I haven't seen one Royal Atlantic anywhere, and I have close to 7 Guitar Centers within an hour from my house. Plus, the prices of used Royal Atlantic is dropping quick. One sold for $1400 on Ebay and I've seen another one going for around $1500 on a gear forum.

And on most neutral forums when Mesa is mentioned it's usually the Mark series or Recto's. Mesa talked a big game in the Brit market but it seems like it hasn't worked out for them. What are your opinions?

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by screamingdaisy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:33 pm

I think it's because Mesa keeps trying to do Brit on their own terms.

What I mean by that is that they could just outright copy a Marshall... it's not like it's hard since everyone with a soldering iron already does it... but instead they keep trying to make their own variation of the sound.

Personally, I think it would help a lot of they offered something other than their own special brand of V30s for their British flavoured amplifiers.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by Heritage Softail » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:16 pm

There are so many good Brit type amps out there. There are good kits as well if you can solder.

IMO Mesa is leaking money every time they try a Brit type amp and it drives up the prices on the core Mesa products.

Mesa is metal. Come out with something to hang with an Uberschall. And I'm not trying to stir up trouble since I have one. It just seems like a better marketing move. Trying to go Brit is selling a product that you have tried to say was inferior to your core product line.

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by screamingdaisy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:17 pm

Heritage Softail wrote: Mesa is metal.
I was going to say something along these lines, only I ran out of time and had to submit my last post half finished...

I won't pigeon hole Mesa into metal since they're already in a wide variety of other genres... but they do produce a signature sound and quite frankly that's what people expect of them. It makes it more difficult for them to break into other markets... the Mesa guys don't buy in because they're too far away from the Mesa sound, and the Brit amp guys don't buy in because they're not far enough away from the Mesa sound.

And I think Heritage Softail hit another point... the market for Brit amps is so saturated with options that even Marshall and Vox are having a hard time competing.

Personally, I think the Electra-Dyne will continue to grow in popularity. It's probably the third most talked about Mesa I see on various forums and fills the low-to-mid gain gap. Once it gets some more mainstream exposure non internet gearheads will start asking about them.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by guitarrhinoceros » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:33 pm

I don't think the OP has enough information for him, or any of us for that matter, to determine whether Mesa is "striking out" with their British flavored amps. The OPs snippet of what he has seen in GCs and from visiting forums hardly constitutes evidence pointing to Mesa "striking out."

I also don't get the comments about Mesa needing to stick to creating metal amps. Judging by Mesa's artist list, it seems that most of their endorsements are to people that aren't playing metal.

Also, if Mesa doesn't try to diversify their line and change, then they face becoming stagnant as a business.

Lastly, just because there aren't a ton of people on these forums or elsewhere going crazy for Mesa's newer offerings, hardly means that their newer amps are duds. I've tried the ED and really liked it for what it was. I also felt the same way about the RA-100. The market is vast and the economy sucks. And, Mesa has cemented their name with high gain gear head with the likes of the Dual Rectifier. These are all factors that I'm sure Mesa is aware of when releasing new amps. I'm sure they understand the market and what to expect from their amps, in terms of sales. What other new $2000 tube amps are there that are capturing people's attention and wallets? The only one that comes to mind is the Goldfinger, and even that amp doesn't seem to be that popular (are there even artists endorsing that amp?).

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by guitarrhinoceros » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:38 pm

If the perception is that Mesa's are metal amps only, as is evidenced in this thread, then I'm not surprised more people aren't jumping on their non-metal offerings. Looking at their artist list though shows that they are hardly associated with metal players. I know they used to be associated with the nu-metal sound though ...

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by danyeo1 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:47 pm

guitarrhinoceros wrote:I don't think the OP has enough information for him, or any of us for that matter, to determine whether Mesa is "striking out" with their British flavored amps. The OPs snippet of what he has seen in GCs and from visiting forums hardly constitutes evidence pointing to Mesa "striking out."

I also don't get the comments about Mesa needing to stick to creating metal amps. Judging by Mesa's artist list, it seems that most of their endorsements are to people that aren't playing metal.

Also, if Mesa doesn't try to diversify their line and change, then they face becoming stagnant as a business.

Lastly, just because there aren't a ton of people on these forums or elsewhere going crazy for Mesa's newer offerings, hardly means that their newer amps are duds. I've tried the ED and really liked it for what it was. I also felt the same way about the RA-100. The market is vast and the economy sucks. And, Mesa has cemented their name with high gain gear head with the likes of the Dual Rectifier. These are all factors that I'm sure Mesa is aware of when releasing new amps. I'm sure they understand the market and what to expect from their amps, in terms of sales. What other new $2000 tube amps are there that are capturing people's attention and wallets? The only one that comes to mind is the Goldfinger, and even that amp doesn't seem to be that popular (are there even artists endorsing that amp?).

I like the ED and RA100 as well but they don't seem to be taking off at all. New ED's are dropping in price and there's no Royal Atlantics anywhere. And to be honest, I thought the Stiletto's weren't that good at all while Mesa talks them up like they're these incredible JMP killers, which they ain't.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by guitarrhinoceros » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:50 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvR-HSPxlU

I think the Stiletto could cop some very nice tones. Here is a great example of someone doing just that, getting great tones from just their Stiletto and a Strat.

Great players make these amps, and all amps, sound amazing.

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by danyeo1 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:59 pm

guitarrhinoceros wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvR-HSPxlU

I think the Stiletto could cop some very nice tones. Here is a great example of someone doing just that, getting great tones from just their Stiletto and a Strat.

Great players make these amps, and all amps, sound amazing.
I owned one and, egh. I also think the video there is, egh, ok. If you've ever cranked a really nice Marshall you know that Mesa hasn't come close which makes me scratch my head when they claim they have. But they also claim the Mark V nails a IIC+ and most of us know how delusional that statement is.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by guitarrhinoceros » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:17 pm

danyeo1 wrote:
guitarrhinoceros wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvR-HSPxlU

I think the Stiletto could cop some very nice tones. Here is a great example of someone doing just that, getting great tones from just their Stiletto and a Strat.

Great players make these amps, and all amps, sound amazing.
I owned one and, egh. I also think the video there is, egh, ok. If you've ever cranked a really nice Marshall you know that Mesa hasn't come close which makes me scratch my head when they claim they have. But they also claim the Mark V nails a IIC+ and most of us know how delusional that statement is.
Respectfully, I so don't get what how we hear things so differently. I've played (rented) some Marshalls and had them cranked at gigs -- and the Mesa's I've rented are top notch IMO. Interesting ...

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by talltxguy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:04 am

I kind of look at Mesa's attempt at Brit tone in the same light I look at Ferrari's attempt to produce gas-friendly vehicles. :lol:

I am glad that Mesa puts their own gainy twist on Brit tones. If I want "pure Brit tone," I'm certainly not gonna look to any Mesa for that. While I respect "pure Brit tone" and know that some of my favorite songs have that "pure Brit tone," it's not what works for me when I strap on a guitar.

Interestingly enough, my last Mesa amp (TA-15) was EL84-powered and my next Mesa amp (DC-3 in 2 weeks) is EL84-powered. I like the British influence with the Mesa circuitry.

I don't think Mesa is striking out with their Brit tone quest. I think they're realizing what they are and aren't as a company. I'm glad that Mesa is not getting too caught up in trying to reinvent the Marshall.

I look at Mesas like I used to look at stick shifts. At first, I hated them because I couldn't figure them out without looking and feeling stupid. But when I eventually learned how to drive a stick, I loved it and never looked back. I gotta believe that a lot of Mesa naysayers would become Mesa addicts if they learned how to play them.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by J.J » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:55 pm

What is "Brit" tone anyway ? each of the Marshall generations is very different sounding, virtually none of them have reverb and then the tube compliment changed numerous times. Vox and Orange are certainly not the same and then there were other brands too. The Apparent Jimmy Page amp was none of the above. Could Peter Green be considered to have "Brit" tone with his Fender Twin ?

Then there are the speakers and cabs. I have not heard Mesa claim to have a "Brit" cab. And if they did, would it be loaded with Greenbacks, Blues, G75s or perhaps non Celestion speakers ? Would it be open back or closed back ?

I think the Mesa marketing has a bit to answer for when they claim to be doing the "Brit" tone. Which Brit tone ?

Personally I'm not a fan of of the TA amps. The Stiletto I liked, but not enough to own. I love the ED and RA and to me they do both cover JTM and JCM tones very well (not exactly though) and will do it at way less than the cranked volumes required for the real Marshalls. I have an original JCM 2203 and a JTM clone to compare to.
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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by KH Guitar Freak » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:42 pm

I like the TA series, but love the Stiletto. Too bad Mesa got rid of it for whatever reason...

Which brings me to the subject that brand recognition plays a huge part in the guitar world in terms of perception towards brands. This is more so evident in a case whereby the individuals that make up the guitar world in general are quite conservative in nature. Quite possibly the very same reason people will buy Fenders/Gibsons/Marshalls all day even if their quality can be argued as being suspect...

There, I said it... *puts on flame retardant suit*

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Re: Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

Post by screamingdaisy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:33 am

J.J wrote: Then there are the speakers and cabs. I have not heard Mesa claim to have a "Brit" cab. And if they did, would it be loaded with Greenbacks, Blues, G75s or perhaps non Celestion speakers ? Would it be open back or closed back ?
When a Plexi won't crunch through a Recto cab why the hell would a Stiletto?

I think a lot of people overlook the speaker part of the equation and it's contribution to the final sound.
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