comparing the TA 30 112 combo and the LSS 112 combo?

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Ok, I'll come clean and admit that I don't have a TA-30 1x12 combo, nor a LSS 1x12 combo. I do, however, have a TA-15 head that I run through two 1x12 LS cabs loaded with C90s and I also have a LSS 2x12 combo also loaded with C90s, so perhaps my 10 cents might be worth something in response to your question.

When it comes to clean tones, the two amps are, in my view at least, almost identical. Both amps' Channel 1 (TA-15 set in the Normal mode) have a chimey, VOXy sparkling clean tone that can be pushed to crunchy break-up if required. Both clean channels are extremely touch responsive, so if you've dialled-in verge-of-break-up levels of gain, you can easily clean-up just by lightening your touch, and then make 'em bark when you dig in. That, really, is where the similarities end.

The LSS's second channel is basically a higher gain version of it's first channel: yes, it has an additional drive switch to add another gain stage, as well as a voicing switch to thicken up your tone (this works on both channels, some on the forum here seem to think it's exclusive to channel 2). Even with these features, the LSS is far from a traditional Mesa high-gain amp. You can crank additional gain out of the channel by winding up the treble and taming the high frequencies with the presence knob, but the LSS will never give you full, saturated recto-style preamp distortion: for that kind of gain, you have to push it with pedals. Also, although channel 2 on the LSS is a higher gain version of channel 1, it's also voiced just a little bit darker, quite a bit stronger in the low-mids, things can get muddy without judicious tweaking on the mid and bass knobs. I suppose you could, just about, compare the LSS's channel 2 with the Top Boost mode on the TA's channel 1, but the TA's Top Boost has more sizzle to it, and doesn't have the LSS's darker, sometimes muddier sounding low mids and bass response. The TA in Top Boost, H1 or H2 modes gives you much more preamp gain than either the LSS channels will, especially with the TA-30's additional drive switch.

While I absolutely love my LSS, I've got to say that the TA is my preferred amp, tone-wise, because it really does do just about everything the LSS does, with the added benefits of Fendery cleans in channel 2 tweed mode, Marshall/Plexi-esque gains in channel 2's H1 mode, and the H2 mode, which sort-of-kinda does more Mesa high gains. There can be no doubt about it, while the LSS is a fabulous amp, the TA is more versatile.

Disclaimer: I haven't played a TA-30 head or combo yet (although I'm sure I'll pick up a TA-30 head and LS 4x10 at some stage), so everything I've said depends entirely on the assumption that the TA-30 is almost the same amp as the TA-15 but with the added reverb, drive boost, fx loop and higher-rated output stage.
 
I think that you have nailed it my friend. I use to have the 112 LSS and had to return it to the store owing to a repeating electrical issue. If that had not happened, I'd likely still have it. As you put it, the clean is sublime, better than Fender. Channel 2 on the other hand, as you point out is darker, and occassionally muddier, which needs to be tweaked (an oft repeated complaint of LSS users). Still, it's a great amp. and then along comes the Transatlanitc. It's more open, breathier, less mid range, spongier. I was checking out the TA 30, both combo and head and cab (couldn't really tell the difference in tone/sound in the store) and I really like it. I'm back on a tone quest, looking for the one amp that can satisfy a variety of needs (Voxy, Fendery, multi watt, reverb, combo) and the TA pretty well nails it. I ventured into a boutique amp over the last few months and while it is incredibly well built, and has some great tones, there are a couple of things that don't work well for me: it's a VERY loud 18-20 watts, I'm not overly thrilled with the non-master/by-pass tone of the amp when playing my LP (too focused, inyour face), and it has to be played loud enough for decent tone that I cannot play it when other people are home. I found the Mesa LSS to not be problem (largely because I kept it on 5 or 15 watts) at home, and having played the TA 30 next to it at the same settings (wattage), it would also fit in. A very interesting design, though a truely strange cab shape, deep and squat. Still, easy to manage.
I see you are in Joburg. It's been many moons since I was in that neck of the woods. I was a teacher in Swaziland in 1989. Loved it.
 
Jared Purdy said:
I think that you have nailed it my friend. I use to have the 112 LSS and had to return it to the store owing to a repeating electrical issue. If that had not happened, I'd likely still have it. As you put it, the clean is sublime, better than Fender. Channel 2 on the other hand, as you point out is darker, and occassionally muddier, which needs to be tweaked (an oft repeated complaint of LSS users). Still, it's a great amp. and then along comes the Transatlanitc. It's more open, breathier, less mid range, spongier. I was checking out the TA 30, both combo and head and cab (couldn't really tell the difference in tone/sound in the store) and I really like it. I'm back on a tone quest, looking for the one amp that can satisfy a variety of needs (Voxy, Fendery, multi watt, reverb, combo) and the TA pretty well nails it. I ventured into a boutique amp over the last few months and while it is incredibly well built, and has some great tones, there are a couple of things that don't work well for me: it's a VERY loud 18-20 watts, I'm not overly thrilled with the non-master tone of the amp when playing my LP (too compressed), and it has to be played loud enough for decent tone that I cannot play it when other people are home. I found the Mesa LSS to not be problem (largely because I kept it on 5 or 15 watts) at home, and having played the TA 30 next to it at the same settings (wattage), it would also fit in. A very interesting design, though a truely strange cab shape, deep and squat. Still, easy to manage.
I see you are in Joburg. It's been many moons since I was in that neck of the woods. I was a teacher in Swaziland in 1989. Loved it.
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My only slight reservation with the TA is you can't set different modes on the same channel to be foot-switchable, so I can't foot-switch between Channel 2 Tweed mode (for cleans) and Channel 2 H1 mode (for crunch), or between Channel 1 Normal mode and Channel 1 Top Boost mode... I say "slight reservation" in that it's pretty much the only shortcoming I've found with the amp: obviously, if it were possible, you'd be forced to share the channel's gain/EQ/volume settings between the two modes, which might not be ideal. That said, the TA-15 was largely mooted as a home practicing and studio rig, where foot-switching isn't quite such a requirement compared to live use.

I personally use my TA-15 for live use much more often that the LSS: lack of reverb in the TA doesn't bother me, I tend to use reverb sparingly anyway so I've got a reverb unit on my pedal board just to give a bit of extra shimmer to my cleans and a bit of tail to my overdriven leads.
 
I've had the pleasure of having a TA30 combo at home since yesterday. One of the local stores will let you take an amp home (or a guitar) for a day to see how you like it, and at no charge. I have to say that I prefer the sound of it to my Swart AST Master, and that is saying a lot. The Swart is hand made, and $2500. If I was only using a Strat with it, it would be fine, but I don't like the sound of it in non-master mode with my LP, and I bought it thinking I had finally found one amp that would serve both guitars - fully. Regretfully, that was not the case, and I don't exactly have the room to stock pile amps that will only get played occassionally. So, I am going to sell the Swart, and buy the TA30 or the Lonestar Special (again).

As per your comments, I play at home (mostly) so having a pedal that does everything for me is not important. In fact, I have wanted a two channel amp that can give me good vintage cleans and good vintage break-up, with reverb just to avoid having pedals clutter up my dining room (where I play). I could see how a gigging musician would like those options on a pedal though.

One thing I noticed with the LSS compared to the TA30 is that it appeaqrs to have more mid range. Do you find te same withe TA15 compared to the LSS? I'm going to see if they'll let me take the LSS home tonite to see how it stacks up against the TA30, and the differences between the LP and the Srat through it. It's either going to be the TA30 or the LSS. The tone quest continues.
 
Sebber, your comparison between the LSS and TA is spot on as far as I am concerned. I used to own a 112 LSS, and loved the clean channel! However, I wasn't able to achieve high gain lead sounds that I was after in Ch2 after much experimentation with all of its features.

I love my TA30 112 combo because I can easily achieve excellent clean, crunch and high gain lead sounds without the need to add pedals. This amp just sounds fantastic for vintage clean, crunch a lead tones!! I usually prefer both channels in 30W mode.

While it is true that the 5 modes are not footswitchable on the TA, the LSS doesn't have preamp modes at all. It does offer some toggles for different voicings of Ch2, but it still sounded too dark for my tastes in Ch2. The only feature additional feature of the LSS that I miss is the solo boost, but this really isn't a big deal, and the lack of this additional circuitry on the TA makes the TA a much lighter amp to carry around (TA30 112 combo - 42 lbs, LSS 112 combo - 57lbs).

Overall, I much prefer my TA30 combo compared to the LSS.
 
Jared Purdy said:
One thing I noticed with the LSS compared to the TA30 is that it appeaqrs to have more mid range. Do you find te same withe TA15 compared to the LSS?
Click to expand...

The LSS second channel is voiced much stronger in the mids than any channel/mode in the TA. It's fine if you use channel 2 in the LSS as a pure lead channel because the added midrange "hump" you get when switching to it from channel 1 can help cut through the band mix without a major increase in overall volume.

MBJunkie said:
Sebber, your comparison between the LSS and TA is spot on as far as I am concerned. I used to own a 112 LSS, and loved the clean channel! However, I wasn't able to achieve high gain lead sounds that I was after in Ch2 after much experimentation with all of its features.

I love my TA30 112 combo because I can easily achieve excellent clean, crunch and high gain lead sounds without the need to add pedals. This amp just sounds fantastic for vintage clean, crunch a lead tones!! I usually prefer both channels in 30W mode.

While it is true that the 5 modes are not footswitchable on the TA, the LSS doesn't have preamp modes at all. It does offer some toggles for different voicings of Ch2, but it still sounded too dark for my tastes in Ch2. The only feature additional feature of the LSS that I miss is the solo boost, but this really isn't a big deal, and the lack of this additional circuitry on the TA makes the TA a much lighter amp to carry around (TA30 112 combo - 42 lbs, LSS 112 combo - 57lbs).

Overall, I much prefer my TA30 combo compared to the LSS.
Click to expand...

I played two gigs over the weekend: on Friday night I used my LSS 2x12 combo (5 watt mode both channels, mic'ed up with an SM57), and last night I used the TA-15 with the two 1x12 cabs (15 watt mode both channels, channel 1 in Normal mode for clean and channel 2 in H1 mode for crunch, mic'ed up with an SM57). I think I marginally prefer the LSS channel 1 for cleans over the TA channel 1 Normal mode: the LSS is just a touch more sensitive to playing dynamics. When it comes to crunch, I definitely prefer the TA: while neither amp has a true high gain preamp, there is more gain available with the TA, and the gain structure is smoother and more complex with the TA too. The reverb on the LSS, even though I use it sparingly, is probably the best I've heard in any amp.

One thing I have noticed between the two amps though: the LSS is MUCH louder than the TA when they're both in 5 watt modes, I'm not sure why that is, probably something to do with the relative size and rating of the output transformers in each amp.

If I were to pick a favourite, I think it would have to be the TA: the tones and versatility in such a tiny footprint amp continue to astonish me. I love the LSS, it's a fantastic amp, but when you compare it with the TA, especially when using the LSS's channel 2, it's a hell of a lot easier to dial in a good sound with the TA.
 
Sebber said:
Jared Purdy said:
One thing I noticed with the LSS compared to the TA30 is that it appeaqrs to have more mid range. Do you find te same withe TA15 compared to the LSS?
Click to expand...

The LSS second channel is voiced much stronger in the mids than any channel/mode in the TA. It's fine if you use channel 2 in the LSS as a pure lead channel because the added midrange "hump" you get when switching to it from channel 1 can help cut through the band mix without a major increase in overall volume.

MBJunkie said:
Sebber, your comparison between the LSS and TA is spot on as far as I am concerned. I used to own a 112 LSS, and loved the clean channel! However, I wasn't able to achieve high gain lead sounds that I was after in Ch2 after much experimentation with all of its features.

I love my TA30 112 combo because I can easily achieve excellent clean, crunch and high gain lead sounds without the need to add pedals. This amp just sounds fantastic for vintage clean, crunch a lead tones!! I usually prefer both channels in 30W mode.

While it is true that the 5 modes are not footswitchable on the TA, the LSS doesn't have preamp modes at all. It does offer some toggles for different voicings of Ch2, but it still sounded too dark for my tastes in Ch2. The only feature additional feature of the LSS that I miss is the solo boost, but this really isn't a big deal, and the lack of this additional circuitry on the TA makes the TA a much lighter amp to carry around (TA30 112 combo - 42 lbs, LSS 112 combo - 57lbs).

Overall, I much prefer my TA30 combo compared to the LSS.
Click to expand...

I played two gigs over the weekend: on Friday night I used my LSS 2x12 combo (5 watt mode both channels, mic'ed up with an SM57), and last night I used the TA-15 with the two 1x12 cabs (15 watt mode both channels, channel 1 in Normal mode for clean and channel 2 in H1 mode for crunch, mic'ed up with an SM57). I think I marginally prefer the LSS channel 1 for cleans over the TA channel 1 Normal mode: the LSS is just a touch more sensitive to playing dynamics. When it comes to crunch, I definitely prefer the TA: while neither amp has a true high gain preamp, there is more gain available with the TA, and the gain structure is smoother and more complex with the TA too. The reverb on the LSS, even though I use it sparingly, is probably the best I've heard in any amp.

One thing I have noticed between the two amps though: the LSS is MUCH louder than the TA when they're both in 5 watt modes, I'm not sure why that is, probably something to do with the relative size and rating of the output transformers in each amp.

If I were to pick a favourite, I think it would have to be the TA: the tones and versatility in such a tiny footprint amp continue to astonish me. I love the LSS, it's a fantastic amp, but when you compare it with the TA, especially when using the LSS's channel 2, it's a hell of a lot easier to dial in a good sound with the TA.
Click to expand...

And if you are a gigging musician, as you are, dialing in quickly is important. I have had the pleasure, again, of having the LSS at home since yesterday. I would agree with your assessment about the gain/overdrive on the TA, some how, it is easier to dial in, and it has a more organic sound to it. I too cannot disern much of a diffrence between the tones on the first channel of either amp, though speaking purely subjectively, I prefer the "sponginess" of the first channel tone on the LSS. It is fuller, and I always felt that. I have a stock 75 Fender PR, and it cannot compete with the rich tones that come off the LSS in channel one. The reverb too, is the best that I have ever heard on any amp. In channel two, I would say that the TA30 wins by a nose, but a small nose. Cleary there have been some developments at Mesa over the years, and the LSS is an older amp, all be it still popular, and in their line up, it still holds it's own. If they could take the improvements in the TA 30 and put them into the LSS (while still keeping the 5 watt function), they'd have a ringer. If they added tremelo, it would be icing in the cake.

I have decided that I am going to go with the LSS. I am familiar with the topography of the amp, the one that I have seems to be free of the electrical issues that plagued the last one I had, and it feels like I have come back to an old familiar friend. It was really interesting doing the ABY between the TA30, LSS and the Swart AST Master. If there was ever an opportunity to have demonstrated that PCB need not be inferior to hand wired PTP or turret board, this was it. I wish that I had recorded the entire comparison. I really don't know why Mesa gets bashed, you guys have done some great work with your amps.
 
Congrats Jared!! The LSS is a fine amp, and sounds like the right one for you.

I had already posted in "the other thread" regarding my opinions comparing the LSS to the TA30.....so just disregard it since you have already made your decision. After all, they are just my opinions.

Best of luck and enjoy your LSS! :mrgreen:
 
One thing that I really like about the LSS (and my wife and daughter concur) is the 5 watt setting. The amp can be played at lower volumes, and still get great tone. I simply cannot do that with the Swart. If the TA30 had a 5 watt setting it might be a contender. Alas. I have no regrets with the LSS, I have always been an admirer of it, and it fits my needs perfectly. The weight is another matter!
 
Sebber said:
Ok, I'll come clean and admit that I don't have a TA-30 1x12 combo, nor a LSS 1x12 combo. I do, however, have a TA-15 head that I run through two 1x12 LS cabs loaded with C90s and I also have a LSS 2x12 combo also loaded with C90s, so perhaps my 10 cents might be worth something in response to your question.

When it comes to clean tones, the two amps are, in my view at least, almost identical. Both amps' Channel 1 (TA-15 set in the Normal mode) have a chimey, VOXy sparkling clean tone that can be pushed to crunchy break-up if required. Both clean channels are extremely touch responsive, so if you've dialled-in verge-of-break-up levels of gain, you can easily clean-up just by lightening your touch, and then make 'em bark when you dig in. That, really, is where the similarities end.

The LSS's second channel is basically a higher gain version of it's first channel: yes, it has an additional drive switch to add another gain stage, as well as a voicing switch to thicken up your tone (this works on both channels, some on the forum here seem to think it's exclusive to channel 2). Even with these features, the LSS is far from a traditional Mesa high-gain amp. You can crank additional gain out of the channel by winding up the treble and taming the high frequencies with the presence knob, but the LSS will never give you full, saturated recto-style preamp distortion: for that kind of gain, you have to push it with pedals. Also, although channel 2 on the LSS is a higher gain version of channel 1, it's also voiced just a little bit darker, quite a bit stronger in the low-mids, things can get muddy without judicious tweaking on the mid and bass knobs. I suppose you could, just about, compare the LSS's channel 2 with the Top Boost mode on the TA's channel 1, but the TA's Top Boost has more sizzle to it, and doesn't have the LSS's darker, sometimes muddier sounding low mids and bass response. The TA in Top Boost, H1 or H2 modes gives you much more preamp gain than either the LSS channels will, especially with the TA-30's additional drive switch.

While I absolutely love my LSS, I've got to say that the TA is my preferred amp, tone-wise, because it really does do just about everything the LSS does, with the added benefits of Fendery cleans in channel 2 tweed mode, Marshall/Plexi-esque gains in channel 2's H1 mode, and the H2 mode, which sort-of-kinda does more Mesa high gains. There can be no doubt about it, while the LSS is a fabulous amp, the TA is more versatile.

Disclaimer: I haven't played a TA-30 head or combo yet (although I'm sure I'll pick up a TA-30 head and LS 4x10 at some stage), so everything I've said depends entirely on the assumption that the TA-30 is almost the same amp as the TA-15 but with the added reverb, drive boost, fx loop and higher-rated output stage.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiousity, have you had problems with your LSS blowing rectifiers and fuses?
 
Jared Purdy said:
Just out of curiousity, have you had problems with your LSS blowing rectifiers and fuses?
Click to expand...

Yep, I'd had it for about six months when, at a band practice, we noticed a nasty burning smell, reminiscent of burning carpet... investigation lead to the source of the smell being identified as the Lonestar's power transformer. Switching the amp off and back on again and the fuse went (and I think the rectifier tube too), replacing the fuse didn't make any difference. It turns out the power transformer had melted down (or something, I'm not very technical when it comes to these things), the resin coating of the transformer had basically melted off it.

I returned the amp to the local authorised Mesa tech and he replaced the transformer under the terms of the 5 year warranty. Since then I've had no problems with it. I do, also, have a problem with the fx loop/solo boost functionality where, when either is enabled, the output of the amp fades in and out. I'm not too bothered about it because I don't actually use either the fx loop or the solo boost so both are hard bypassed: the amp is still under warranty so I really should get it looked at, it's just that I've been too lazy to drop it off with the amp tech again.
 
FWIW.....I never experienced any problems whatsoever with my LSS 112 combo while I owned it for about 1 year. I purchased it a few years ago maybe 2007 or 2008, and sold it after about 1 year ownership.
 
Sebber said:
Jared Purdy said:
Just out of curiousity, have you had problems with your LSS blowing rectifiers and fuses?
Click to expand...

Yep, I'd had it for about six months when, at a band practice, we noticed a nasty burning smell, reminiscent of burning carpet... investigation lead to the source of the smell being identified as the Lonestar's power transformer. Switching the amp off and back on again and the fuse went (and I think the rectifier tube too), replacing the fuse didn't make any difference. It turns out the power transformer had melted down (or something, I'm not very technical when it comes to these things), the resin coating of the transformer had basically melted off it.

I returned the amp to the local authorised Mesa tech and he replaced the transformer under the terms of the 5 year warranty. Since then I've had no problems with it. I do, also, have a problem with the fx loop/solo boost functionality where, when either is enabled, the output of the amp fades in and out. I'm not too bothered about it because I don't actually use either the fx loop or the solo boost so both are hard bypassed: the amp is still under warranty so I really should get it looked at, it's just that I've been too lazy to drop it off with the amp tech again.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Do you know what year your amp is?
 
Sebber said:
Jared Purdy said:
Interesting. Do you know what year your amp is?
Click to expand...

I bought it in May 2008 so it's manufactured in either 2007 or 2008.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I've read that there was an initial problem with something in the LSS (that led to fuse and rectifier tube failures) but apparently it was fixed. I don't know what year that was. When I had mine, I tended to leave in the 5 watt setting, about 75% of the time, only occassionaly switching to the 15 watt setting, and never reallt to the 30 watt setting. I have since bought a decent surge protector, so I am hoping that solves the problem so that when I pick up my LSS, I won't be dealing with the same issues again. Incidentally, I had a Mesa branded 5Y3 in my Swart AST Master, it had been in there for about 4 months, and it blew (along with the fuse). I've read that the Mesa branded tubes are really sub par. As long as they blow before the warranty is up, we are only inconvenienced by having to get down to the local Mesa tube carrying store.
 

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