Balanced volume between clean,LO, and HI

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jeffp

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After receiving my amp i thought the volume levels could be worked out or manageable. I am at this point struggling BIG TIME trying to balance or equalize the volume between clean,Lo,and HI. This whole thing about the clean trim, and gain trim seems to be VERY complicated! In short the clean level adjustment is not the problem but just the opposite. I don`t need to turn it down, I need to turn it up! I can`t get the clean volume near up high enough to match with the Lo, and Hi. I thought i understood...now i am admittedly confused. Can we start over guys one step at a time?I caught bits and pieces here and there but obviously i`M STUMPED!.....I know this subject has been beaten to death...but PLEASE HELP!...jeffp
 
Dude, I'm stumped. For me, the clean is always loud enough. I set the levels for lo / hi for gigs and then adjust the clean channel to match, but I don't think that's the problem here.

Tubes? Maybe you're losing a preamp tube?

How hot are your guitar pickups??
 
you say the clean is always loud enough.okay but is it equal to the Lo,and Hi volume?...ALL at gigging volume? same time? about the pickups i`m using a strat..Lace sensor.Hot Gold(hot bridge). Of course we know it may be better suited for a humbucker,but the issue is equal volume clean,LO,Hi with same guitar. Is this normal for ED?i`m going try with my sons LP.
you say you set the levels for LO/HI @ gigging volume AND ADJUST THE CLEAN TO MATCH!... Can you give an example setting all the way through that matches on your ED? and i`ll do the same and compare. a rock setting preffered.Please list all settings including any trim or clean level just to be sure!And thanks too!
 
Dude, rehearsal is Wed. I'll have to take a look then. (Kinda hard to crank the thing at home)

For gigging settings, I believe I had the gain trim set to normal with the volume at 1:30, Bass at 9:00 Mids at 1:00, Treble at 1:00, Presence at 1:00 and the master at about 8:30. It is RIDICULOUS how much horsepower this thing has. I can't remember where I had the clean trim, but I know it was not cranked as I have heard it get LOUDER than the other two channels. Truthfully, I don't have an idea of how the channels balance past 9:00 on the master since I've never had to turn it up that loud, and this is with a 2 x 12.
 
Mesa states in the manual for the Electra Dyne explicitly that the clean trim switch's function is to make sure that "the compromise between sounds is minimized" (8). More so, the manual constantly reminds players that there will be some compromises that players will have to make in setting optimal sounds in a one channel amp. This is sort of a given and should be remembered when enjoying your 'Dyne. It will not be perfect in terms of footswitching between different sounds, but players should be able to figure out a method that suits their needs best.

Perhaps, get another 'Dyne to better equalize your clean and dirt tones? Or, get a Mark V ...

OR

Check out the RA again! Listen to the first 10 seconds of this RA video ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfaC6QhVbN0
 
If it makes you feel any better, a popular guitarist and forum member of RigTalk, SGT. THUMP, told me that while the 'Dyne is his favorite amp, there is some compromise in getting a good clean and dirt tone for live usage. This fact hasn't deterred him in using the amp, but he was very candid in sharing this with me when I asked him questions about his time with the ED. He told me that his biggest problem was that his cleans were never going to have the kind of headroom he is used to for gigging situations. For him, that sounded like a non-issue. I rely on pristine clean tones too much to have used a single ED in any gigging situation.

Check out SGT THUMP's ED videos on YouTube ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZxGsBpBVGU
 
Thanks....This is all correct about the compromises and i accept that.I take it pretty hard that i can`t equilize the volume from clean to Lo/Hi because i think the clean is exceptional along with the Lo/Hi! The difference in volume is pretty big from clean to Lo and the same difference from Clean to Hi. The clean level trim is fully bypassed to get it`s volume as high as possible. But still too much difference.However when using a Les Paul the difference is much smaller and OK! In short with the humbuckers it`s close enough. So now if i stay with the ED i need a LP or SG!......I love the tone of the amp just didn`t plan on another guitar!Does this make sense?
Makes me wonder why anyone would want to trim the clean volume at all?...is something wrong with my amp? Does anybody reallyever turn the clean volume down with this clean level knob? I don`t see any use for it at all. I do think i understand and i`m ok with the trim switch though.
 
Come to think of it, JeffP, SGTTHUMP only uses a Gibson Les Paul or a 339 with his ED. You might be on to something there.

Either way, the ED is one amazing amp. I'm sure you'll be able to find a compromise that works. The tone is definitely THERE with that amp, it is now all about getting it set to do what YOU need it to.

Or -- GET TWO Electra Dynes!
 
All i know is that`s the only way my son & i could come close to balancing the volume. using humbuckers .The strat would not come close! I know the amp is sensitive . But the second thing is i`m not sure if the volume can be balanced between clean and Lo/Hi.
To make a point if the Lo/Hi is at a 10 and the clean is at a 7 then what good would the clean level bypass do to balance between 7 and 0?It`s backwards. It doesen`t make sense. it`s useless. Am i doing something wrong?
 
jeffp said:
Makes me wonder why anyone would want to trim the clean volume at all?...is something wrong with my amp? Does anybody reallyever turn the clean volume down with this clean level knob? I don`t see any use for it at all. I do think i understand and i`m ok with the trim switch though.

Trimming the clean is more for low volume playing where the volume difference between channels is more exaggerated.

My amp predates the gain trim mod and I set the master volume where I want it, then switch back and forth between clean and lo/hi whilst adjusting the Volume knob until the channels balance.

To explain: if you change your amp to the clean channel and experiment with turning the Volume (gain) knob up and down you'll notice that it increases/decreases the amp's volume with little change to the overdrive, whereas on the Lo/Hi channels the Volume (Gain) knob increases/decreases overdrive with little to no change to the amp's volume.
 
screamingdaisy said:
Trimming the clean is more for low volume playing where the volume difference between channels is more exaggerated.

My amp predates the gain trim mod and I set the master volume where I want it, then switch back and forth between clean and lo/hi whilst adjusting the Volume knob until the channels balance.

Daisy, does your amp have the gain trim ? I thought the early amps still had the gain trim, but not the clean level adjust.

The volume control plays a big part in things. Generally as you increase the volume, the clean channels volume increases For the gain channel raising the volume has much less effect on volume. It is more to do with gain saturation level.

For me running the volume around 2:00 gives me plenty of clean volume and I usually have to use the clean level trim to bring it back in line with the vintage gain modes. A Strat does need a higher volume setting to balance things. s you run the master higher and get the poer stage compressing things will change again.

At my last jam, I had my Strat and the Clean was initially way louder than the gain mode as I had the clean level maxed for some reason. When I stepped on the vintage lo the first time for a solo, I got buried and had to change back to clean.
 
Please focus on the question.What i am asking is can the volume be equalized between the clean and the Lo/Hi?This is KEY!
With the Master @ 10 and the volume at 1PM and the clean level trim fully bypassed the clean volume is MUCH lower than Lo/Hi. This is with this clean level control fully bypassed so no additional volume is taken out. Is this normal?
 
Why, pray tell, would anyone need to run the master at 10 on that amp!!???? =-o

I had mine at about 8:30 at a gig and I was more than loud enough. 45watts FTW!
 
J.J said:
Daisy, does your amp have the gain trim ? I thought the early amps still had the gain trim, but not the clean level adjust.

Mine doesn't have either.

jeffp said:
Please focus on the question.What i am asking is can the volume be equalized between the clean and the Lo/Hi?This is KEY!
With the Master @ 10 and the volume at 1PM and the clean level trim fully bypassed the clean volume is MUCH lower than Lo/Hi. This is with this clean level control fully bypassed so no additional volume is taken out. Is this normal?

With those settings (G&L Legacy w/ single coil pickups) I have a slight volume increase going into Lo/Hi.... however it's around the amount of increase I would normally dial in when going from clean to dirty tones. I wouldn't classify the difference as abnormal.

If you feel yours is abnormal, try swapping the V4 preamp tube with another tube. Looking at the tube chart in the manual it looks like V1 through V3 are for Lo/Hi and V4 is dedicated to the clean channel. If V4 is a weaker tube it'll produce less gain, which in turn means the amp will output less volume.


On a side note, this is the first time I've used that Strat in a long time (I'm not really a Strat guy) and it sounds outstanding through the ED.
 
I assume you mean the master at 10:00, and not 10 (5:00)!

I run my master about 10:00, tone and presence near 12:00, and volume about 2:00, with gain trim set to Clean. The clean and LO/Hi volumes are quite close with those settings with humbuckers. I like the LO/HI to compress a lot, and am OK with a little compression on the clean mode. When I coil tap, the clean level drops a bit. This can be compensated by running the volume a bit higher, or by not trimming the clean level.

The way to equalize the levels is to clip the LO/HI modes, and run the clean as hot as you can stand by cranking the volume. If you do not want the LO/HI to compress, then set the trim to LO/HI, and drop the volume control as required.
 
Thanks.you answered the question. I just talked to Marcus @ MB. He says i should be able to equalize. And if i never need to use the clean level dial to turn down clean volume to match Lo/Hi somewhere in the spectrum,i do have an issue.Preamp tube 4, or 5. I feel better already.Bonus is clean mode should sound somewhat better too!. We`ll see.
This is my second ED. The first would not switch modes.Am i jinxed?
 
Yes V4 and V5 are the clean channel tubes. I had V5 go bad with a brand new tube after a few minutes. I have been getting a lot of brand new 12AX7 tubes that go bad very quickly. This is not a curse, it is poor quality control at the factories.

As for Mesa, I'm sure they do the best they can, but bad units are not uncommon.
 
Can you balance the volume between clean,Lo/Hi?. At some point do you have to use the dial on back to trim the clean level? Do you see my problem matching up?
 
jeffp said:
Thanks.you answered the question. I just talked to Marcus @ MB. He says i should be able to equalize. And if i never need to use the clean level dial to turn down clean volume to match Lo/Hi somewhere in the spectrum,i do have an issue.Preamp tube 4, or 5. I feel better already.Bonus is clean mode should sound somewhat better too!. We`ll see.
This is my second ED. The first would not switch modes.Am i jinxed?

I agree with Marcus. Jinxed? Tube problems sound pretty typical for tube amps. Once you get some good performers in your amp, you should be fine!!!
 

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