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 Post subject: EQ pedal for a Mark III
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:12 am 
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Bottle Rocket

Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:34 pm
Posts: 10
I have a Red Stripe, GEQ, simulclass. My question is what's the best EQ pedal to go with this amp. I've been going for a Black Album style tone and yes I know it's impossible to get that exact tone but I want to tighten my tone up. Highs that don't sound like radio static but a high end that cuts though. I've got a Behringer 7 band (yep I know it sucks) and this thing will make a Mesa sound like a Fender with one flick. The one thing I do like is cutting the middle frequency of the pedal (800) I think and boosting the 750 on the amp GEQ about halfway. My question is what EQ pedal out there can cut frequencies without killing the tone. Is there a pedal that can cut frequencies without lowering the volume and changing the entire tone? To be bolder does anybody have any sound clips?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Bottle Rocket
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Hi - I don't post often but thought I would give you a quick answer. What you are looking for is a Parametric EQ. It is a more precise eq that allows you to dial in the exact frequency you are looking for, adjust the width of that curve from narrow to wide, and either cut or boost that frequency. They can be found in pedal or rack form, and from 2 to 7 bands.

I have read Mike B. @ Mesa recommends the Presonus EQ3B a 3-band parametric eq to those without graphic eq's on their amps citing they are closest to the factory specs. I just bought one on ebay. It has not yet arrived so I can't say how good it is. I have used others in the past with great results. They take a little patience to dial in but can really refine your tone.

I have used a Rocktron Pro Rax 3-band, and a Peavey PME-4 band, they both did the same thing. Some will sound a little harsher than others, some will color your sound a little, the best ones cost alot and are very transparent.

If looking at rack units the Rane PE-17 is good, the Rane PE-15 is good but a little noisy, Ashly PQX-571 or anything made by them will be high quality, Furman PQ-3 or PQ-4, Aphex 109, TC Electronics 1140 is a great but rare unit.

I have never used a parametric eq pedal but the Empress ParaEQ gets good reviews.

Hope this helps!

ncdb07

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ncdb07

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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Thanks for the reply that sounds exactly like what I'm looking for. When your order comes in would you mind bumping this thread with your impressions of the Presonus? Cheers


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Bottle Rocket
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Ok, the Presonus eq finally came in today! I cannot describe how happy I am with it. If you are looking for The Black Album tone, this is it! Use the settings shown from tour photos with the graphic eq on the amp set up in an M shape and use the settings for the parametric eq from the Master of Puppets notes and you will be as close as you can ever get. Maybe 90 to 95%! The rest is studio magic! Maybe a BBE maximizer would sweeten the tone a tad and get you a little closer in addition to the parametric eq.

As for the eq itself. I have owned 2 other units before this one. This one is the easiest to use, sounds very clear, no extra noise, and really tightens up the amp! I have no way to upload any sound clips.

Now this is with a Mark IV, Celestion classic lead 80 speakers and Sovtek 5881 power tubes. I used to have a green stripe Mark III and Celestion vintage 30's with Mesa 6l6 and el34's and a Peavey 4 band parametric and could get pretty close to the sound you are after. There was always something fizzy and honky I couldn't dial out with that setup and I believe it was the speakers. I am much happier with the lead 80's. I am also using EMG pickups.

Hope this helps!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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Thanks for the reply. How much did this EQ cost you? And I've been trying to get my hands on a Mark IV to compare to the III I have but there is no Guitar Center in my area and even the one in Atlanta doesn't have one. I'm wondering if that fuzzy gainy sound is just a part of the III and if I would like the IV better but since I couldn't try both out I went with the "sounds like a IIC+!!!!!" option lol. One more question you said you did have a III how would you compare it to the IV?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:49 am 
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Bottle Rocket
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rscott24 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. How much did this EQ cost you? And I've been trying to get my hands on a Mark IV to compare to the III I have but there is no Guitar Center in my area and even the one in Atlanta doesn't have one. I'm wondering if that fuzzy gainy sound is just a part of the III and if I would like the IV better but since I couldn't try both out I went with the "sounds like a IIC+!!!!!" option lol. One more question you said you did have a III how would you compare it to the IV?



I paid $55 plus $12 for shipping for the eq on ebay. There is a guy selling brand new in the box ones for $76 plus shipping here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Presonus-EQ3B-Parametric-EQ-NEW-/261170037449?pt=US_Signal_Processors_Rack_Effects&hash=item3ccef282c9

My III compared to the IV that is a loaded question. My IV is the sound I have been wanting to here since I was 14 years old. It is everything I thought I was getting in the Mark III. It is Incredibly ballsy, in your face, and extremely smooth at the same time. When you strum a chord you can literally hear every note. It's almost like the distortion sits on top of the clean channel instead of being combined which keeps it very clear and smooth. Very hard to get a bad sound out of the Mark IV.

Now the Mark III. I am very convinced that the previous owner damaged it. He had been trying to trace the circuit in order to clone it. He liked to buy amps clone their circuits and then flip them.

I am not trying to bad mouth this amp only point out my experience.

Mine never had the amount of gain on tap that the Mark IV does. It had a lot of fizzy ice picky qualities to it. The presence knob was not useable and supposedly had a mod done to it at the factory as well as the reverb mod.

I did the IIIC+ mod to it as described on the forums. It tamed some of the shrillness. I also replaced all of the electrolytic capacitors in the amp. This improved it some, definitely in the low bass area.

It always felt a little stiff to me. I thought maybe it was due to being wired in pentode? It was very raw. No compression. Not tight at all. It also didn't take pedals in the loop well.

Once I added the parametric eq things changed. I got the compression, tightness I was looking for. So I never explored further. I was close to the sound I was looking for. After a while, I decided I also wanted a clean channel. Very hard on the Mark III. To me it was a one trick pony. But it did that trick very well.

I have watched many youtube videos since then of Mark III's and can honestly say mine never sounded like those. Most of the videos have nothing but a guitar, cable, and the amp. Mine needed the eq and a boost pedal to sound like theirs did raw. I now suspect that maybe one of the vactrols or LDR's might have went bad and it never fully changed channels. Should have sent it to Mesa for service.

I grew tired of it and switched to Marshall's for a while but began missing the bass the Mesa had. So I bought the Mark IV. For me there is a night and day difference between those amps. Like I said there was probably something wrong in mine.

Please don't trade or sell yours without making sure it doesn't need service. Listen to the videos on youtube. See if yours compares to theirs. I have heard many red stripe mark III's on youtube that sound great! If my mark III had sounded like those videos I would never have sold it.

Also my Mark IV doesn't need the eq. it is plenty tight on its own. There is just some tweaking to a couple frequencies I like that makes it a little nicer for me. It just tailors the sound.

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ncdb07

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Mesa JP2C
Avatar 2x12 (Celestion Lead 80's)
Gibson Explorer 84' Reissue


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:22 pm 
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Bottle Rocket

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I'm really starting to think it's a matter of tweaking. I was playing along with the Master of Puppets guitar only track and it was definitely the M shape on the GEQ and less gain and treble than you would think and it sounded absolutely spot on. The more I tweak the better it sounds. Of course the day I got it I did the typical V curve that you always see and cranked all the knobs and I got Marshalled lol. Boosting the low and high mids and getting the high end right seems to be the key, thanks for your responses on the parametric, definitely going to be my next buy. Well maybe a clean amp that I can A/B because obviously the III clean is useless after I get my lead tone lol. When I get around to recording some clips I'll post them and check them out if you want and see how they compare with the III you had. I'm pretty sure I have a beast on my hands that just needs a little tinkering.

BTW did the III+ mod just give you more gain or a different sound?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Bottle Rocket
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The IIIC+ mod just smoothed out the high end. I don't think I lost or gained any gain. I will definitely check out your clips when you upload them.

Don't forget to check out Flemming Rasmussen's notes from recording Master of Puppets / And Justice For ALL ...

http://fwrproduction.com/FWR_Produktion/Notes_1.html

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ncdb07

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Mesa JP2C
Avatar 2x12 (Celestion Lead 80's)
Gibson Explorer 84' Reissue


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Donating Member

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Location: Norfolk, CT
Thanks, those are really great notes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Bottle Rocket
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For anyone still checking this thread; I somehow fried my Presonus Eq3b. Currently debugging it. In the meantime I obtained a Rane PE-15 to take its place.

There is nothing wrong with the Rane, but there is something special about the Presonus. They are definitely different units. With the Boogie I much prefer the Presonus and how it shaped the sound and the simplicity of the unit. The Rane has so many options! Add that to the already complicated Mark IV and it can make you scratch your head at times.

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ncdb07

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Mesa JP2C
Avatar 2x12 (Celestion Lead 80's)
Gibson Explorer 84' Reissue


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:56 am 
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Mark III

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I was wondering if it would be possible to take a Metallica guitar track and try to reverse the eq settings given by mr. Rasmussen on his notes in order to listen to the actual sound of the Mark IIC+, that is without the parametric eq. A software like adobe audition maybe would be suitable for this.

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