Recording questions - two channels, one take

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mace
Mark III
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Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by mace » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:59 am

Hi,

I've been doing some recording with the Mark V and CabClone and also with an SM57 mic. Both CC and mic go to a little 2-channel pre-amp thingy, then that goes to a cheap USB interface into the Mac, Logic X. The set-up is very simple, just capturing two channels at the same time. I thought this would "fatten up" the sound a bit, to have two tracks of the same thing recorded. When playing back, both tracks are panned to the center.

However, I've found that when both tracks are played at the same time the sound actually sounds kind of thin and strange. I thought it was a phase issue and flipped the phase switch to 180º on the Cabclone and did another take. The result (both tracks played together) didn't sound as good as before, even, it was even more wonky. So, CabClone went back to normal phase.

When I mute one of the tracks, the playback sound is good. Either track, when played back alone, sounds good. But, when they are playing through the same pan settings it just sounds wonky. If I pan one left and one right, it sounds OK also.

I was just curious if anyone else has had this happen and what they did about it? I am a bit of newbie at recording. Thanks.
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dalep
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by dalep » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:47 pm

There may be some timing issues.

How does each part of the track sound by itself?

Usually double tracking flattens things up, two at the same exact time usually just makes it louder.
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Wayno
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by Wayno » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:20 am

I would guess it is a phase issue, but, not a full 180° out of phase. That's why flipping the phase switch on one channel had the result you said about. Try zooming in tight to the waveforms and manually aligning them, see if that works ( not perfectly aligned, but 95% or so, that should help thicken it up too). Also, only my personal preference, i wouldn't have them both panned the same. I would push one track a little left and the other a little right. Give them some separation. Hope that helps
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mace
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by mace » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:10 am

Thanks for the replies. The tracks each sound good alone. I think timing is OK because the tracks were recorded simulataneously and had the exact same signal chain (post-mic and post-CC obviously).

I'll do some more messing around as suggested with re-aligning one track ever so slightly.
Rankings: #1 Mark V head, #1b TC50 combo, #3 Rectoverb 25 head

mace
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by mace » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:31 am

I think what I was hearing in the two tracks was a phasing thing. I moved one track ever so slightly and could change the tone, and I moved it a little bit more and the tone would change. It sounded like a.., wait for it... a phaser effect. Well, there you go. Learn something new every day.
Rankings: #1 Mark V head, #1b TC50 combo, #3 Rectoverb 25 head

Wayno
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by Wayno » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:00 am

Every days a school day 8) glad you got it sussed.
Her highness the Veenus
(Mark V/V4 & V7 12AT7 Combo)

2 x 12 Vertical Cab
GSP1101

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mixsit
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by mixsit » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:08 am

mace wrote:I think what I was hearing in the two tracks was a phasing thing. I moved one track ever so slightly and could change the tone, and I moved it a little bit more and the tone would change. It sounded like a.., wait for it... a phaser effect. Well, there you go. Learn something new every day.
Might just be the effect of mic distance (vs direct) delay kicking in.
I saved this ref for this -time delay/offset vs primary frequency effected- The lowest freq effected on the far left, plus all the frequencies above.
http://www.recordinginstitute.com/da154 ... delsh.html
There .5ms would be equal to about 6" in mic placement etc.
Another curious thing I wonder if you might have noticed when they are panned apart, the image shifting towards the earlier direct track? (The Haas precedence pan' effect there.. :>)

Wayno
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by Wayno » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:15 am

mixsit wrote:
mace wrote:I think what I was hearing in the two tracks was a phasing thing. I moved one track ever so slightly and could change the tone, and I moved it a little bit more and the tone would change. It sounded like a.., wait for it... a phaser effect. Well, there you go. Learn something new every day.
Might just be the effect of mic distance (vs direct) delay kicking in.
I saved this ref for this -time delay/offset vs primary frequency effected- The lowest freq effected on the far left, plus all the frequencies above.
http://www.recordinginstitute.com/da154 ... delsh.html
There .5ms would be equal to about 6" in mic placement etc.
Another curious thing I wonder if you might have noticed when they are panned apart, the image shifting towards the earlier direct track? (The Haas precedence pan' effect there.. :>)

interesting article that
Her highness the Veenus
(Mark V/V4 & V7 12AT7 Combo)

2 x 12 Vertical Cab
GSP1101

Gibson LP Studio with alnico ii pro
Schecter C1-XXX with emg 81/85 18v
Jackson Dinky XL with Duncan designed???
Sigma DNC-1STE

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OldTelecasterMan
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Re: Recording questions - two channels, one take

Post by OldTelecasterMan » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:14 pm

This is a very interesting post. I have an awesome live sound and figured I would just place microphones in front of the cabinets and pretty much be able to get the tone recorded. I use a CabClone in my rig for the line level send to the stereo part of the system. So when recording I ran a line level send to the mixer from the CabClone so I could have another texture to blend in with the 4 mics. My tone was not what I wanted so I have been sitting on the guitar work and just working on drums bass and keys.

This might be the reason I was not getting a good tone on my recording.
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