Mark V combo or head +1x12 (Got mine!)

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Bucketfeet

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Hi all,

I am new here. I'm looking to purchase a mark v very soon and was really curious if there are any differences in the head vs combo aside from portability and convenience of a combo. Are there any tonal or circuitry differences between the two?

Any help with this would be appreciated!
 
Weight. I have the head. I like playing with different cab configurations. The combo seemed like a heavy and limiting element to me.
 
Ah thanks! I guess I should also consider if I ever want to add more heads to my collection, that's the way to go.
 
I did not see any unpopulated areas in the head circuit board so I would assume the head and combo amps are identical. The only difference is length of the reverb cable.

Weight is largely the issue when deciding. Going with the Head does offer some flexibility if floor space is limited (reason for that statement is that the combo is a finger crusher to lift to place on top of a cab and easier to keep on the floor). You can drive any speaker cabinet with either head or combo. The only added bonus with the combo is the added airflow or cooling effect provided by the speaker. Another pro for the combo is ease of preamp tube replacement (still is a challenge but more manageable than the head).

Either way you go, head or combo, you will need the top of the cabinet to be a minimum of 23 to 24 inches wide and 11 to 12 inches deep. I can fit the Mark V combo on top of the Vertical 212 cab although due to weight of the combo I will not do that for sake of stability. The head as well as combo will fit on top of all of the Mesa 212 cabs.

Also if you wanted to isolate the amp from the speaker vibrations, the head is one way to go (you can still do that with a combo if you use an extension cab but why carry all that extra weight ? If I was taking the amp on the road for gigs, head would be preferred over the combo any day. And to think I used to carry my Mark III everywhere I went..... I think that amp was heavier than the Mark V.
 
Instead of the 1x12 cab, why not get the Vertical 212? By far that is my favorite cabinet for any amp I own but only three of the amps would fit on top (JP, TC-50 and the Mark V combo - too heavy to lift up there). Just to note I have three 412 cabs at my disposal (a newer OS Recto 412, and old OS Recto 412 loaded with EV and a traditional size cab with the Celestion G12H-75 creambacks). Other than the EV loaded 412, the Mesa Vertical 212 is by far the best performing cabinet (full range of tone and more bottom than the 412). I also have a Horizontal 212 to run my Roadster or RA100 if I so desire. What gets the most use is the Vertical 212 cab. I have been contemplating getting another one so I have a place for both JP and the TC. Yes the Vertical cabinet does weigh 70lbs but the two side handles make moving the small cab quite easy and with the amp on top it is just at the right height if you decide to sit when playing. the angled front will project more upward than the 1x12 cab unless you tilt it (would have to find another place for the head to sit if you tilt it).

The 1x12 is okay but with a 90W amp you are limited when using a 1x12 cab. If you go that route two speakers come to mind Organic Timbre Rhapsody G12F (recently got one to use in the Mark V combo) or the Celesiton Redback G12H-150 (after it is broken in it sounds great) Both are ideal for the clean channel and both excel on the high gain channels. The OTR is not as vintage sounding as the Red. Also is 300W (sensitive enough to run the 10W mode too) but could be used with any amp I have without fear of Voice coil damage (note that the Red back can take the full power of the JP-2C which peaks at 150W even though it is rated at 100W).
 
Guys so I finally ordered one! Went to the local shop and tried both the tc50 and mark v. Tc50 it a fantastic sounding amp. The clean channel on it just perfect. However I play such a wide range of styles and started some freelance work which requires many different sounds so I chose the mark v. Can't wait to get mine in my hands! Thanks for the input! 8)
 
Congrats on taking the plunge - did you go head or combo?

I've got a mark v head. I have a vertical 2x12 recto cab and a 1x12 open back cab. No matter how you slice the mark v, it's going to be heavy. At 40 some odd pounds, the head weighs about as much as some 1x12 combos. The 2x12 is 75 ish pounds and the 1x12 is 30ish pounds. So whenever I'm going to a gig, i'm lugging 70 or 110 ish pounds. The combo states it's around 65 pounds. So it is technically the lighter option, but splitting the weight makes it more manageable in my opinion. you can shave a few pounds depending on the speaker you use. Neodymium speakers can save you around 5-10 pounds depending on the speaker it's replacing.
 
Speaking about 1x12 cabinets, just got the open back today. I have plans on removing the MC90 and replace it with the Organic Timbre Rhapsody G12F. I will have to give the MC90 a chance with the Mark V and the TC-50 just to get a reference. My plan is to use the 1x12 with the JP-2C but will require a beefier speaker. Besides with the OTR installed it will pair up with the one I have mounted in the Mark C combo.

I may install the MC90 in another cabinet, perhaps pair it with the Celestion G12H-75 Cream backs I have in a traditional sized 412 cab. Never heard the MC90 in a sealed cab, since I have two may as well give it a try (assuming I did not kill the MC90 I bought to install into the V when I was thinking about selling it).
 
mikemjr12 said:
Congrats on taking the plunge - did you go head or combo?

I've got a mark v head. I have a vertical 2x12 recto cab and a 1x12 open back cab. No matter how you slice the mark v, it's going to be heavy. At 40 some odd pounds, the head weighs about as much as some 1x12 combos. The 2x12 is 75 ish pounds and the 1x12 is 30ish pounds. So whenever I'm going to a gig, i'm lugging 70 or 110 ish pounds. The combo states it's around 65 pounds. So it is technically the lighter option, but splitting the weight makes it more manageable in my opinion. you can shave a few pounds depending on the speaker you use. Neodymium speakers can save you around 5-10 pounds depending on the speaker it's replacing.

Thanks man! It's been a long time coming and a lot of debating but it was time!

I decided on the head with the 1 x 12 open back wide body. How does it sound with the 1 x 12 you have? I'm not concerned about the weight as it won't be for gigging.
 
I do really like the 1x12 wide body open back cab. It sounds much better than the Mark V combo when I had the MC90 in it. I am in debate if I what to swap the speaker at the moment. I may want to get some recording of the cab before the speaker swap ( as my intentions were to use the 1x12 with the JP-2C and need more than 90W speaker for that amp, unless I run amp at 60W vs 100W). I am impressed with the overall tone and clarity of the wide body open back MC90 extension cab. Bold bass response, plenty of midrange and top end. It is not harsh or honky and I could not get it to flub out either. I think you will have a rewarding experience with what awaits you in the near future when your gear arrives. :p

I believe what contributes to the tone difference between the extension cab and the combo is the lack of components packed inside the acoustical cavity like the reverb tank on the bottom, and amp chassis on the top. So the combo will have a slight difference in tone with a bit more emphasis on the midrange and top end since the internals for the combo do hinder the resonance of the cabinet. I am impressed with the extension cab more than I expected, I cannot say that enough.

For those that do have the Mark V combo, I would recommend the 1x12 extension cab in the open back format. I had to order mine from the Hollywood Mesa store since I could not find any on Sweetwater. Perhaps some day I will get one of the 1x12 wide body closed back cabs to go with the open back cab.
 
Got mine!! 8) 8)

Had about 5 hours with it so far and from what I've played, im pretty happy with it.

A couple of things though... how are some of you getting so much gain out of these? Especially in iic+ mode?? My gain is maxed and still only sounds crunchy at best.... I've seen videos of dudes ripping in this mode and with the mkiv / extreme mode, their sounds are super saturated and focused.

Also, my extreme mode seems to have LESS gain than mkIV mode and just sounds very muddy.

I know I have a lot of tweaking to do but I did spend a few hours trying different things including eq, pent/tio switches 90/45/10w etc.....

Do you guys use a boost before hitting the amp? I'm using an Ibanez S-series guitar for reference.

thanks!
 
Give it some time to break in. (mainly the speaker)

Extreme mode will have less gain than Mark IV mode on CH3. As far as running an OD sure you can do that if you desire. I generally do not use any OD or distortion external to the amp even though I do have a few pedals that are for that purpose. The trick to the Mark V is simple, higher gain settings, drop the bass (all the way if needed). I generally run lower gain settings most of the time which improves the detail of notes peek though. Higher gain will get more saturated and tone controls need to be adjusted to compensate. I would first start with the suggested settings in the manual and migrate from there to adjusting your own settings. I believe that most people start with too high of a gain setting and expect the amp to just automatically adjust. Perhaps there are some tricks to learn with a high gain setting. One is CH2 crunch voice, max gain, treble at noon, midrange at 2 o'oclock, bass at 10am or less, presence adjusted to suit your top end (EQ on and choose slider or preset). Keep in mind, a new speaker will not respond well to higher gain settings so give it time to work itself in. I would start off using the clean channel and then progressively move up into the higher gain channels. Try not to push the new speaker too hard at first as it may sound muddy or lacking any grind that may be desired. It generally does not take long to break in a speaker, some take longer than others. Clean channels allows the speaker cone to move farther compared to a distorted channel.

CH3, try the pentode vs triode switch on the back panel. Pentode will increase the power output vs the triode setting but triode will also improve the detail of the gain characteristic.

If you are using the Effects loop active (back panel) this enables the master volume control such that you can dial in a higher channel master volume which does effect the gain structure. The global master when set around noon will get the amp cooking quite loud. Also turn on the EQ if it is off as this does add a bit of boost to the signal. The 750 Hz slider is the key here.

There is a lot to learn with this amp in dialing in your tone. It is not all that hard but to some it is easier to set with your eyes than your ears, I generally let my ears help me dial in what I like to hear vs what my eyes are communicating to me.

You may also want to check out the "settings thread" which I believe is on the top of the Mark V forums page.

I would not bother with the "saturation mod" thread yet. However it is a simple trick to alter the gain characteristic by using one or two preamp tubes that have a lower gain in the late gain stages which helps to compensate for very bright tone as many of the early Mark V's were prone to ice pick highs. I have played though more recent builds (last year) and noticed the ice was not there. Even with amps that do not have the ice pick highs can use the "saturation mod, 12AT7 preamp tube" to gain a bit more saturation in the gain structure.
 
Ah.. didn't think about breaking the speaker in. That's actually a great point as most speaker do take quite some time until they work as intended.

I'll try your settings for channel 2 as well. I find my channel 1 sounds much more open and wider than ch 2 at the moment.

Can't wait to hear the potential of this amp!

bandit2013 said:
Give it some time to break in. (mainly the speaker)

Extreme mode will have less gain than Mark IV mode on CH3. As far as running an OD sure you can do that if you desire. I generally do not use any OD or distortion external to the amp even though I do have a few pedals that are for that purpose. The trick to the Mark V is simple, higher gain settings, drop the bass (all the way if needed). I generally run lower gain settings most of the time which improves the detail of notes peek though. Higher gain will get more saturated and tone controls need to be adjusted to compensate. I would first start with the suggested settings in the manual and migrate from there to adjusting your own settings. I believe that most people start with too high of a gain setting and expect the amp to just automatically adjust. Perhaps there are some tricks to learn with a high gain setting. One is CH2 crunch voice, max gain, treble at noon, midrange at 2 o'oclock, bass at 10am or less, presence adjusted to suit your top end (EQ on and choose slider or preset). Keep in mind, a new speaker will not respond well to higher gain settings so give it time to work itself in. I would start off using the clean channel and then progressively move up into the higher gain channels. Try not to push the new speaker too hard at first as it may sound muddy or lacking any grind that may be desired. It generally does not take long to break in a speaker, some take longer than others. Clean channels allows the speaker cone to move farther compared to a distorted channel.

CH3, try the pentode vs triode switch on the back panel. Pentode will increase the power output vs the triode setting but triode will also improve the detail of the gain characteristic.

If you are using the Effects loop active (back panel) this enables the master volume control such that you can dial in a higher channel master volume which does effect the gain structure. The global master when set around noon will get the amp cooking quite loud. Also turn on the EQ if it is off as this does add a bit of boost to the signal. The 750 Hz slider is the key here.

There is a lot to learn with this amp in dialing in your tone. It is not all that hard but to some it is easier to set with your eyes than your ears, I generally let my ears help me dial in what I like to hear vs what my eyes are communicating to me.

You may also want to check out the "settings thread" which I believe is on the top of the Mark V forums page.

I would not bother with the "saturation mod" thread yet. However it is a simple trick to alter the gain characteristic by using one or two preamp tubes that have a lower gain in the late gain stages which helps to compensate for very bright tone as many of the early Mark V's were prone to ice pick highs. I have played though more recent builds (last year) and noticed the ice was not there. Even with amps that do not have the ice pick highs can use the "saturation mod, 12AT7 preamp tube" to gain a bit more saturation in the gain structure.
 
Sorry for the long post.... :roll:

The Mesa branded Celestion speakers should not take that long to break in. I thought the 1x12 open back cab sounded amazing right out of the box with the MC90 (stock speaker). There is a break in period with just about any speaker, some takes much longer than others. Amps also have a break in period but it is not the same thing as a electro-mechanical relationship. It is related to the power supply capacitors. From the start they will be at their higher value within the tolerance ratings. After a few thermal cycles of running the amp and turning it off the large electrolytic capacitors will get closer to there nominal values. Capacitors will drift over time but will take many decades to require replacement. Speakers also change over the life span but the change is usually gradual and may never be noticed. Tubes on the other hand always start off as bright, bold and whatever its characteristic is for that tube type. Those too have a burn in period where the tone will shift just a bit and then the change will be gradual over the span of the tube life. This is more common with power tubes than preamp tubes but those to shift in their performance but at a slower rate. My Mark V does not sound the same as it did in 2012, it used to be extremely bright and sometimes brittle, tubes did not seem to matter much, have many speaker cabs to use. Input voltage from the line can be a major factor. My home is a bit on the high side. so a power conditioner on the outlet I have my gear plugged in will keep things where it should be. The Mark V is very sensitive to higher input voltage, 110V is ideal, unfortunately my line runs at 120 -125 VAC. A regulated supply really helped me with the Mark V as well as my other gear as it also eliminates noises from the high current equipment like the central heating / cooling system.

For starters, use the 45W mode on CH3 as that has an amazing tone since you are cutting out the overhead of the extra Class A/B tubes. Also note, 45W power mode gives you the option to select tube rectification for CH1 and CH2, this will reduce the output by -2dB or -3dB when compared to the silicon diode mode but the additional sag due to the inefficient tube rectifier will get you closer to a more vintage tone. Even the Variac power mode is nice and spongy. If you want it tight, chose silicon diode for CH1 and CH2.

As for CH3, set all of the controls to around 10AM (gain, channel volume, presence, treble, midrange and bass). Bright switch on and on the back use pentode. I can get a very aggressive tone with this setting on Mark IV and Extreme voice. Set the 5BEQ on and use the slider setting in a V pattern. Raise the 750Hz slider up just enough (just below the line between the bottom and center). This works for me but mine is a 2012 model and can be very bright to start with. Note that you do not need to push the gain all the way on CH3 to get an awesome distortion that is detailed for lead and aggressive for chords. The higher the gain setting the muddier the tone. The bright switch on CH3 does two things, it doubles the gain factor on one tube stage and increases the treble, midrange and bass response. The word "bright" is a bit misleading. I have read many reviews on the Mark V, including John Petrucci comments. Trick is to raise the bass control just to where it gets muddy and then drop it from that point. It is okay do dial it completely out if needed as well as presence and treble. They are just tone control adjustments so all the way out or full on is up to you. If you try the common method to set all three tone controls to 50% for evaluating the tone stack, this will not work too well. The tone controls are a bit different than your typical tube amp. You can do this on CH1 as that is more of a Fender circuit but for CH2 and CH3 they are quite different.

First time I ran though the Mark V, I was exploring everything, all the switches, power modes, settings, FX loop active or in bypass, FX loop with effects... etc. The FX loop output of the 90W V is a bit stronger than the other Mark amps as well as other Mesa amps (that I know of). It is actually a line level loop vs instrument level loop. Some effect pedals may have an overloaded input buffer (tone will sound clipped on a clean channel or extremely compressed on the higher gain channels.) When shopping for effects, look for line level compliant pedals (max input 10dB down to -2dB, if it states -10dB or lower it is instrument level). If you do have effect pedals, and you find there are tone issues with them in the loop, you will need a 2 channel line level shifter. Ebtech makes one, https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LLS2 I am not trying to sell the thing, but I do need to get one as I do have some pedals that are not compliant with line level. It should be easy to use, connect the +4dB jacks to the FX loop send and return of the Mark V and the pedal chain to the -10dB jacks. The device uses step up/down transformers which does not require any external power. I am uncertain if a booster pedal would be required at the end of the effects chain to compensate for dry (bypass) or wet (fx on) . I should just buy it and find out for myself. I basically sold most of my gear after I got the Mark V and bought some new pedals that were line level compliant. (Strymon is one, there are others that are line level and will also auto shift to instrument level so they work well in front of amp or in FX loop). There is a lot of things to explore with the Mark V. So far the Mark V has the best overall performance on the Clean channel in fat voice when using piezo bridge pickups. I have tried my Martin (MIM) 12 string as well as the Takamine 6 string acoustic, okay but feedback would be a huge issue as I do not have the sound hole plugged. Best is a piezo bridge on an electric guitar. I have a Kiesel DC600 with the piezo Floyd Rose ( Ghost system licensed by Graph Tech, I think the bridge itself is a GOTOH bridge, hard to say as it is not identical to the OFR bridges I have on other guitars but close enough). Piezo on a floating bridge is okay but any movement of the bridge gest transferred in to the signal but once it is fixed in position or not bumped too much it sound better than the acoustic guitars. A better design would be on a Tune-o-matic bridge than a Floyd Rose. Still it is fun to use. Some guitars with active tone controls can be used on Tweed voice with a low gain setting on CH1 and will sound acoustical in character but not like the piezo pickup. The Mark V has many features and practical uses that makes it a great tool or instrument to use. Piezo bridges do not work very well with the higher gain channels. Stick with magnetics (active or passive) for that purpose.

Trick with the Mark I mode on CH2, dial the bass completely out, reduce midrange and boost treble. This is more important when using the thick switch since the Mark I voice is very dark in its tone. Try the settings in the manual "Gain and More Gain" (on page 45 of the downloaded manual) but I would recommend reduction in the gain control on CH3 if you get too much feedback. CH2 setup is great (actually the John Petrucci setting) CH1 can be bright so expect to adjust treble and presence. Some of the controls may need to be adjusted a bit to taste.
 
WOW bandit... Thank you for the detailed info. I can really tell you've spent a lot of time with the amp and know quite a bit about it. I'm looking forward to this weekend when I can sit down and continue my quest for tone with my Mark V.

I really want to love this amp and the more time I spend with the more I'm getting out of it.

I'm finding it's sounding better and better each time and maybe that's what you said about the transistors breaking in.

Will try your suggestions. Thanks again!
 
Oh forgot to say in my last post. I went out and bought and installed new pickups after reading the stock ones that came with my guitar wasn't too great. Went from the stock Ibanez qm1 to Seymour Duncan SH-4 JB in the bridge and that made things quite better with the tones I'm getting out of the amp.

Will update again once I get more time with Ch2.
 
Not sure transistors have a break in period. Tubes, yes, they all go through a phase over the span of their useful life. Speakers can be the most dramatic but the MC90 in the cab should be eager to dish out the tone from the start. May sound a bit dark at first or may struggle with distortion but that clears up or should clear up with about 20 hours of use. Capacitors also change too and they continue to do so. Those should last a good 30 years so no fear in having to have them replaced any time soon.

As for tubes, the 6L6GC tubes generally sound neutral from the start and continue to stay that way but will go though a tone phase or two and the most dramatic may be indication they need to be replaced. The Mesa 6L6 tube does have an EL34 tone to it and when driven hard it has a low end 3D grinding effect (this is basically where the Roadster amp lives on the higher gain settings). EL34 tubes generally start off by sounding harsh and raw, especially the Mesa tubes. But after about 20 hours they warm up and sound great. With older Simul-class amps it was optional to run a mixed quad of EL-34 and 6L6, it is also recommended that the Mark III to be used in than manner at all times. However the Mark V cannot be used with a mixed quad, all 6L6 or all EL34. There may be posts on such but do not do it.

Dialing in the amp does make a difference. With the stock tubes on CH3, I had found more of a desired gain structure with all controls on CH3 set to 10 oclock. Unfortunately I am not the Mark V expert here. I would recommend checking out the settings thread in this forum as there may be something to discover there. Something I have noticed recently is the midrange control will effect the bass response more so than the treble response. I have several guitars that are made with different tone woods and the Mahogany bodied guitars tend to influence the midrange more so than say a Walnut which tends to be brighter (similar to maple). Strat type guitars with hot pickups (Seymour Duncan Hot rails or the "Evertyning Axe" set) have turned my Carvin Bolts in to super strats (also helps to have a Floyd Rose bridge). One is made of Alder and the other is Black Limba (Korena). There is a huge difference between the two that is audible, the Alder body has a bit more influential tone and the Limba is more like a Mahogany tone.

Sure I may be all in on the heavy metal arena but I also like blues and a more acoustical clean sound too. Also spend most of my time with classic Rock. The Mark V can basically do it all. Sure some amps may be more suitable for classic rock tone or blues (RA100, TC50) and those can do metal too but not at the same grit as the Mark V. Then there is the Roadster and the JP-2C that dive deep into the underworld of sinister tone and the Mark V can run there too but may not be as dark in its presentation of grind. I am impressed with the 1x12 open back extension cab as I did not expect to get that much punch out of a single speaker. The Mark V combo does not provide that tone (due to the reverb tank and the amp chassis in the same cavity and also the lack of a resonant plank of wood on top of the speaker baffle which is probably more influential on the tone and characteristics of the sound).

You can always add more cabs later on. The Vertical 212 cab, or another 1x12 wide body but get the closed back to complement the open back. Each will have its own characteristic tone. I have found that the MC90 when paired with the V30 has an awesome blend and response
 
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