Recording the Mark V with mics

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OldTelecasterMan

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Hopefully you find my thoughts entertaining. Please Comment!!!

I have read in here about recording problems and possible solutions. I'm a simple person (complex guitar rig, sort of) but I have recorded electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass, drums, vocals and even an accordion. My recordings have been used in a movie and other places and yes I got paid and it was a major motion picture company.

So here goes. My mission was to record the Mark V. Only using Microphones and SM57s at that (I cannot find it in my brain to spend $1000 on a microphone to proudly broadcast every nuance of one of my mistakes) how hard could it be? My Akai DPS12, no mixing mumbo jumbo, no doubletrack or EQ allowed. Microphone in front of the amp I didn't even turn off the swamp cooler or beer fridge in my music room. I used a Warwick bass plugged directly into the 12 track, my bass playing is borderline humorous to a bass player. A 1982 Roland TR626 drum machine. I used it because I'm lazy and didn't want to use a good sounding drum because I would have had to sequence it. Drum machines got an on and off switch with pre programmed beats...hello lazy... Also I can justify the lame drums because my mission is recording guitar. Oh I also wanted to record the guitar my wife painted for me. I bought it through Warmoth. It has Tom Anderson pickups but every other piece is from Warmoth. It was painted with a brush and I clear coated and wet sanded the **** out of it. It's awesome..sounds and plays awesome too. No I'm not a "Christian rock musician" I'm just a musician.

I was going for a straightforward classic rhythm rock sound the reverb is on about 40% or so. This is one recording with addition of or removal of stereo chorus tracks. nothing else is changed.

1st... is just Guitar, bass and drums. One SM57 at about a 45 degree angle on the bottom speaker of a 2x12 vertical mesa cabinet.
https://soundcloud.com/user-201672201/guitar-no-chorus-bass-drums

2nd... Guitar, bass and drums but with Stereo Chorus on guitar. So now there are 3 SM57 mics. One SM57 at about a 45 degree angle on the bottom speaker of a 2x12 vertical mesa cabinet. Two SM57s on the chorus speakers one on each cabinet. One SM57 at about a 45 degree angle on each 2x12 compact Mesa cabinets panned hard right and left on the mixer. Same exact recording just adding in the Strymon chorus. This is my live rig, a 3 piece band.
https://soundcloud.com/user-201672201/guitar-bass-drums
 
How were you driving the chorus speakers? I liked both tracks but the stereo sounded fuller. Thank you for sharing.

I have been trying to capture the real sound I am experiencing in the room of the Mark V, JP-2C, RA100, Roadster and TC-50. Mark V seems to be easier due to its tonal range. The RA and TC seem a bit more difficult. Roadster ends up with more mids than you actually hear. SM57, Sennheiser e609, Audix D2 and D4. I actually found the drum mics do a great job with the guitar cab. May have to blend the SM57 and Sennheiser with the D2 and see how that sounds.

I have also tried different angles which does matter how the mic responds to the speaker.
 
The just of your question is I get the signal for the chorus from the loZ of the CabClone. That signal has a level control and is a bit darker sounding than the line level provided on the unit. The signal goes to a Strymon Ola Chorus then an stereo EQ I use for signal boost into a Yamaha stereo power amp (it's what I happened to have) then to two Compact Mesa cabs right and left stereo. The drawing is the basic setup. I have added a couple items in front of the amp but the Line from the Cabclone to the Stereo end of things is the same. The BlueSky reverb is also quite an awesome reverb when used. The separation of speakers keeps the sound clear, not mushy or hidden with effects.

 
Awesome response. I was not expecting a diagram. Way cool man. Thanks for sharing your rig set up.

Does the Blue Sky have the speaker simulation like the Big Sky? I was considering getting the Blue Sky as it is easier to dial in. I do like the Big Sky though as it has many different effects to choose from.

What I really love about the Strymon products, they will work with FX loops on Mixers too (line level compliant). I had used the Big Sky in parallel to the DIG to get an effect through my multitrack recorder (can be done with a live mixer too if it has parallel loops or auxiliary channels). I was using the reverb that generates low and high octaves with a shimmer effect, running the DIG delay in parallel kept the integrity of the reverb intact. In series it just got too busy.
 
The Blue Sky does not (to my knowledge) have a cabinet simulator. It's a pretty simple pedal. It has a favorite that is user programmed and it can be switched between the current settings on the front panel, the programmed Favorite and off. I actually do not use it but maybe five or so times in an evening. I use the CabClone speaker simulation to whatever I feel at the time. It is usually set to Closed Back.... I gravitate to that setting. But I think I am an odd bird when it comes to tone. I like little differences from night to night. It keeps things interesting. The Mark V can do so much with the slightest adjustment it is both a blessing and a curse. It does really well with guitar volume adjustment for cleaning things up as long as the gain isn't maxed.

I'm looking at the Strymon Lex right now. The only thing is with the setup I have I'm not sure how to or if I can make it have a dramatic impact on the sound. It will be in the Stereo system not on the front end. Chorus and Reverb are fantastic as they are adding to the already created and upfront tone. The Lex is a different type of effect so I'm unsure. Then again that is part of the fun. Figuring things out.
 
Have you seen the simple Mark V mode thread yet? Worth the read though. It is a simple preamp tube swap for CH3 that affects the cascaded gain stage. Easy removal of the brittleness and seems to make CH3 more flexible. One had suggested to use 12AT7 in V6, I thought it would be better in V4. Some like it in both positions, My preference is in V4 only. Before the simple tube swap, I wanted to sell my Mark V as I found CH3 useless for what I wanted to do with it and besides the JP-2C was the solution for that problem. After the tube swap, I have decided to keep the Mark V. I may play from mild to heavy, from soft to edgy. All depends on what I am trying to achieve and the style of which I am attempting to play. I do not necessarily need the top gain amp to do what I like but I like the flexibility and potential range to do such if needed. The Roadster won me over as I found it more usable in all 4 channels. No ice pick either. Sometimes that amp is a bit dark. CH2 was the only channel I cared to use on the Mark V and found my other amps to perform much better for different styles of music. The mod that effects CH3 has definitely improved the tonal range of that channel, actually for the better as it results in a reduced gain of the two cascaded stages. It may be of interest to you if you struggle with CH3 like I have ever since I had gotten the amp.

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352

I was thinking of getting the blue sky for its simplicity.
 
I am actually pretty happy with the Mark V. The tube thing sparked my curiosity but I did a little research, got some advice and it's not for me.

I'm in the writing and recording mode right now. I have a few gigs left this year so I'll get those done and then it's full steam ahead. Pretty excited about writing again pulling out old gear, relearning recording equipment is always a pain. Very odd on the music end I just put on a few drum beats and just started playing with nothing specific in mind and things started flowing again. Then it's write a bass part, keys, change the canned drum pattern and figure out where things feel like they should go.

For guitar recording I'm a get a good tone and mic it. I use what I have on my rig dial it in to sound correct recorded back out the monitor speakers and that is pretty much it. No protools mumbo jumbo. It's is kinda easy when I have such a good live rig it seems to mic pretty well.
 
Wow, great recordings and tone. I prefer the 1st recordings setup as it sounds a little more natural or what I image it sounded like in person.
 
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