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Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352
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Author:  Markageddon [ Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

"III -Vs- IV: AT7 special" :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiY1oLpN8Xo

New vid with the V vs these coming soon, for anyone still interested.

Author:  Markageddon [ Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

Mark IVb Vs Mark V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv8w6ESheJk

Not really classic "Vs" as they weren't dialled to imitate or outdo each other.
But it does show the previous limits of the standard tube set being broken for each amp.

No ice pick on the V even with some very testing settings and improved character to my ear...more growl and bass, but smoother high up even when riled by prescence and lots of pre-treble..!

The IV seemed to have gained definition, control and a better picking feel, also with massive lows accessible before flub, like the V. And although theres less of high mids and treble grpahic settings here, it can do all the brash but beautiful high stuff too as the smoothitude was great for balancing the aggression.

Both double 12AT7'd and Tungsol'd up. Plenty of different settings used.


EDIT: New link added for new comparison with stuff better sequenced to show comparison between the amps too.

Author:  bandit2013 [ Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

I should have avoided this thread...… now I am thinking what the side effects of the Jan/Phillips would do in the JP-2C phase inverter position. It is close to the III in some respects. May not have the Simul-Class power section but...…. out of sight, out of mind. Tempted but not willing to do the experiment.

Author:  Wayno [ Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

I say give it a whirl Bandit, only a 5 minute exercise to try it after all. You never know, it might take an already incredible amp through the stratosphere. Or it might suck, who knows until you try!

Author:  Markageddon [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

Indeed. Can't hurt...! The III I have is non-simul and that was not only 'fine' with it. it transformed it into utter greatness..
The only danger I hear about is the "Is the preamp tube slot in question a cathode follower."And if its not, like all marks so far, it might bring it more in line with vintage voicing.. I would, in your position.

And I'd start with one in V3 and then with one also in V5.

The JP2c forum would explode if you did a thread there...!

Author:  Wayno [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

First gig in three years and absolutely loved it. First song of the night and a bit early so dancefloors a little quiet. They got into it after a couple songs though. Bass players wedding reception, cracking night.

iiC+ mode, neck pickup EMG 85 on my Schecter.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KR40at ... p=drivesdk

Author:  Markageddon [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

Nice one. That rounded loveliness in that lead tone coming across well there!
You went in with casters on...?!?!?!? :shock:

Well done mate. Glad you had fun....!

Author:  Wayno [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

Markageddon wrote:
Nice one. That rounded loveliness in that lead tone coming across well there!
You went in with casters on...?!?!?!? :shock:

Well done mate. Glad you had fun....!


Yeah keep em on for lazyness haha. Really happy with the tone, not using the combo speaker, just the 2x12 and SM57 though the PA to keep stage volume down. Hope someone got some the other songs so i can show the other modes to you guys.

Heres the other one i currently have,

Tweed mode, both pickups EMG 81/85 on but backed off to cleanup just a little.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_NBQ4 ... p=drivesdk

Author:  bandit2013 [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

If the JP-2C is designed to be identical to the IIC+ circuit as it seems to be confirmed with the tube task chart and the IIC+ schematic I have seen, it stands to reason that the magic circuit similar to the Mark V would also land on V4 as it is the 4th gain stage that has the 270k plate resistor. I did try the 12AT7 in that position a while back, not much of an effect really, just a reduction in gain was the result. It also happens to be the Reverb driver tube as well so there are some similarities to the V in that regard. V5 or phase inverter if it is same as the IIC+ would not be a cathode follower so the cathodyne design is not used, nor is the paraphase inverter part of the discussion. Best fit is the AC coupled long tailed pair phase inverter. No cathode follower circuit to be found on the IIC+ schematic and since the send level is a derived signal from the 5th gain stage, it is also not a cathode follower. Will have to find a cocktail of preamp tubes that will improve the sound of the JP-2C or is that even possible.

There may be some merit to trying a 12AT7 in the Phase inverter. I may also roll in a Tung Sol into V1, may try just one in other positions as well to see where the motor boat issue was coming from. Tried the preamp with alternate tubes shortly after getting the amp just to hear the difference, wound up with a low frequency oscillation that began to grow in volume rapidly, had a motor boat sound. Odd, as I pulled those same tubes in working order from another amp. Chinese tubes gave it a fizzy sound so those are out. Perhaps some NOS tubes may be worth while investment.

Author:  bandit2013 [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

Wayno wrote:
First gig in three years and absolutely loved it. First song of the night and a bit early so dancefloors a little quiet. They got into it after a couple songs though. Bass players wedding reception, cracking night.

iiC+ mode, neck pickup EMG 85 on my Schecter.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KR40at ... p=drivesdk



Great video. Was the singer the best man?

Author:  Markageddon [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

bandit2013 wrote:
If the JP-2C is designed to be identical to the IIC+ circuit as it seems to be confirmed with the tube task chart and the IIC+ schematic I have seen, it stands to reason that the magic circuit similar to the Mark V would also land on V4 as it is the 4th gain stage that has the 270k plate resistor. I did try the 12AT7 in that position a while back, not much of an effect really, just a reduction in gain was the result. It also happens to be the Reverb driver tube as well so there are some similarities to the V in that regard.


Yes, 3rd stage on the JP 2c. was where I was suggesting.
Try a Mesa 12AT7, might get a better effect for that position, I know It does on all three of my amps. But the Phase Inverter one likes other types. Pity if the sat mod doesnt work, cause I'd probably be up for a JP2c then... The reduction in gain also come with a revoicing at real high gain. Could be that your style of dialling might not need it/come across it.. or that your playing objectives don't require the sort of sound Im talking about... different strokes for different folks etc. 8)
Tungsols early in the chain are definitely great idea. The Goldpin ax7 is excellent for this application being the more noiseless of the goldpin vs silver.

Author:  Wayno [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

bandit2013 wrote:
Wayno wrote:
First gig in three years and absolutely loved it. First song of the night and a bit early so dancefloors a little quiet. They got into it after a couple songs though. Bass players wedding reception, cracking night.

iiC+ mode, neck pickup EMG 85 on my Schecter.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KR40at ... p=drivesdk



Great video. Was the singer the best man?


Thank you.

Yeah he was. Really great night had by all but especially us in the band, this wedding gig for the bass player made us pull our fingers out and get the band back rocking again and all of us have been bitten by the bug for playing again, super happy.

Author:  Markageddon [ Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

Nice one. Happy ending and a new beginning all in one right there.
8)

Author:  bandit2013 [ Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

Markageddon wrote:
bandit2013 wrote:
If the JP-2C is designed to be identical to the IIC+ circuit as it seems to be confirmed with the tube task chart and the IIC+ schematic I have seen, it stands to reason that the magic circuit similar to the Mark V would also land on V4 as it is the 4th gain stage that has the 270k plate resistor. I did try the 12AT7 in that position a while back, not much of an effect really, just a reduction in gain was the result. It also happens to be the Reverb driver tube as well so there are some similarities to the V in that regard.


Yes, 3rd stage on the JP 2c. was where I was suggesting.
Try a Mesa 12AT7, might get a better effect for that position, I know It does on all three of my amps. But the Phase Inverter one likes other types. Pity if the sat mod doesnt work, cause I'd probably be up for a JP2c then... The reduction in gain also come with a revoicing at real high gain. Could be that your style of dialling might not need it/come across it.. or that your playing objectives don't require the sort of sound Im talking about... different strokes for different folks etc. 8)
Tungsols early in the chain are definitely great idea. The Goldpin ax7 is excellent for this application being the more noiseless of the goldpin vs silver.


The third gain stage on the JP-2C would be the same as the V5A circuit of the Mark V. The tube position with the 270k ohm plate resistor is V4 just like the Mark V amp. Now that the amp has some use on it, may try to tube roll and see what happens. I have not to that stage yet so I will chime in when I do. Curious if the 12AT7 in the PI of the JP darker. Amp is dark enough with stock tubes. Time to see what works and does not work.

Author:  Markageddon [ Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

bandit2013 wrote:
Markageddon wrote:
bandit2013 wrote:
If the JP-2C is designed to be identical to the IIC+ circuit as it seems to be confirmed with the tube task chart and the IIC+ schematic I have seen, it stands to reason that the magic circuit similar to the Mark V would also land on V4 as it is the 4th gain stage that has the 270k plate resistor. I did try the 12AT7 in that position a while back, not much of an effect really, just a reduction in gain was the result. It also happens to be the Reverb driver tube as well so there are some similarities to the V in that regard.


Yes, 3rd stage on the JP 2c. was where I was suggesting.
Try a Mesa 12AT7, might get a better effect for that position, I know It does on all three of my amps. But the Phase Inverter one likes other types. Pity if the sat mod doesnt work, cause I'd probably be up for a JP2c then... The reduction in gain also come with a revoicing at real high gain. Could be that your style of dialling might not need it/come across it.. or that your playing objectives don't require the sort of sound Im talking about... different strokes for different folks etc. 8)
Tungsols early in the chain are definitely great idea. The Goldpin ax7 is excellent for this application being the more noiseless of the goldpin vs silver.


The third gain stage on the JP-2C would be the same as the V5A circuit of the Mark V. The tube position with the 270k ohm plate resistor is V4 just like the Mark V amp. Now that the amp has some use on it, may try to tube roll and see what happens. I have not to that stage yet so I will chime in when I do. Curious if the 12AT7 in the PI of the JP darker. Amp is dark enough with stock tubes. Time to see what works and does not work.


Smoother, bigger, with more 3d effect, and more defined mids and tighter bigger lows is kinda what Im expecting in the Phase Inverter slot, and a better more 'organic' effect when it hits the power stage following the effect so far on the others..
May improve the speed/feel thing and if not the right pretube swap should., I would imagine.
All to be explored in full in the JP2c section, no doubt.
Looking through there, I cant see any threads of this nature...... although if you do record a high gain tube swap vid with it, of an AT7ian nature, definitely drop one by here. I'd want to hear one.

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