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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 180
Part II:

This time Its mid level Pentode tightness with plenty of presence Vs Triode Slightly louder in the master output and less presence dialled up.
with the AT7 back in V4, along with the extra swapped out glass. The settings are easier to see also.

So to compile for comparison and recap -

Mark V Part I:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehfp1jLDdpk

Mark V Part II: (The new one, I prefer the tones pulled off in this one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHylt7aBqug

Mesa V25 Part III:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7epyD2QUm0E

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Mark IV

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:53 am
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Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Wayno wrote:
Hi,

That's very interesting. The ice pick highs are the nemesis of all Mark V owners I reckon. Especially in iic+ mode I find. I've tried all sorts of things to eliminate it, different combinations of channel and Master volumes, presence and EQ setting etc. I even tried a bigger coupling cap soldered in place of the small one for iic+ mode after the EQ to try get some more beef out of the mode. Didn't seem to make any noticeable difference unfortunately. However, I was at home with a baby asleep upstairs so didn't get the chance to get it up to any decent level of volume. Had a gig the next day so put the original back incase something could possibly go bang. Maybe I'll try it again and see if it does help the beef of that mode at reasonable volume, it should do I would think. Anyway, I digress, I too have heard many times of substituting the 12AT7 in various other amps for similar reasons. Can't believe I hadn't thought of this before. Definitely gonna scour eBay for one after next payday and check it out.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Great video by the way. Proper chunky tone you got there.


Are they Wayno?
How come I never had any ice pick issues using about 10 different guitars & pups?
Have changed a few tubes and still no ice pick anywhere.

And don't have any hum issues either.
I'll just enjoy while you guys fret over "ice pick" :mrgreen:

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Gretsch Jet Firebird, Gretsch G5422, Gibson SG Deluxe, Strat Plus - Mesa 5:50, Mesa Mark V 25, analog pedal boards
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:35 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3031
Location: North Carolina
Newysurfer wrote:
Wayno wrote:
Hi,

That's very interesting. The ice pick highs are the nemesis of all Mark V owners I reckon. Especially in iic+ mode I find. I've tried all sorts of things to eliminate it, different combinations of channel and Master volumes, presence and EQ setting etc. I even tried a bigger coupling cap soldered in place of the small one for iic+ mode after the EQ to try get some more beef out of the mode. Didn't seem to make any noticeable difference unfortunately. However, I was at home with a baby asleep upstairs so didn't get the chance to get it up to any decent level of volume. Had a gig the next day so put the original back incase something could possibly go bang. Maybe I'll try it again and see if it does help the beef of that mode at reasonable volume, it should do I would think. Anyway, I digress, I too have heard many times of substituting the 12AT7 in various other amps for similar reasons. Can't believe I hadn't thought of this before. Definitely gonna scour eBay for one after next payday and check it out.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Great video by the way. Proper chunky tone you got there.


Are they Wayno?
How come I never had any ice pick issues using about 10 different guitars & pups?
Have changed a few tubes and still no ice pick anywhere.

And don't have any hum issues either.
I'll just enjoy while you guys fret over "ice pick" :mrgreen:


I envy you...... Wana trade amps?

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:25 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 180
Still unhappy with the current config you have? Maybe you could go back to the initial mod/tube lineup that caused this happiness:

bandit2013 wrote:
Yes it is. Now I am having difficulty which I like more. JP or V. Both is a good answer. Not identical but very much in the same league.


bandit2013 wrote:
Try it with Pentode and Triode. Wow. I have lost complete interest in using the Mark V before this mod. Either Clean on fat or CH2 Crunch was the only selections that had any merit towards keeping the amp vs selling it. Now I am really liking the Mark V more than I ever imagined. This boogie now has the Mojo it was missing from day one. Actually it makes the Mark V CH3 a multi voiced JP-2C. Triode mode is amazing with all voices. Perhaps I am happy I held onto the amp as there was a solution for the Mark V icy blues (not regarding music style). I can blame this on my exposure with the Mark III and Mark IV and for some reason the Mark V was not living up to its reputation. Perhaps many who love the amp never had the privilege to play though the older amps that make the Mark series what it is. The Roadster was also the V killer as well as the RA100. Still, the CH2 with the gain maxed was the ultimate heavy metal chugger especially when running a quad of Gold Lion KT77 though a pair of 8 ohm EV speakers running on the 4 ohm output. The Roadster could not even come close to that sound. The JP-2C had the tone and gain character I have been searching for all this time. Now the Mark V is on Par with a few tricks up its sleeve.

I have played a newer Mark V when I was in NJ to try out the new TC-50. I did not notice it having the ice pick tone on CH3, it actually sounded really good but I was playing though it at a reduced volume level. However with the simple mod, my icy mark V is a monster that it should be at any volume setting. I normally use the FXloop active to use the master volume. I should try the FXloop off and see how that sounds. I could not tolerate it that way before, that may be different now.


bandit2013 wrote:

If you want that true Mark experience. Run both the V and the JP in stereo mode. Use CH2 on the JP, and switch between IIC and IV on the Mark V. I am completely blown away. Also best if you have an isolated splitter to separate the ground loop. I recently got one. Now I am after another that will do a stereo out. I can combine both of them so I can drive up to three amps at the same time. Left Center Right is my goal. I have to know what it would sound like driving the JP, Mark V and Roadster at the same time. 8) I just might s :shock: t my pants.


You seemed much happier with it back then, around pages 5 or 6. Maybe after time spent away from that config you might find yourself pleasantly surprised to revisit it, if nothing else, just to compare to the subsequent stuff.

If all else fails you could always take it into Mesa and have them sort it? Maybe change it to current spec?
Or get it back to original spec at least you sell yours and buy and new one...? Might be worth taking a dump for a few hundred to cure this for you finally.
All options that i'd be considering now if I were you at this point. I bet your graphic mod would be brutal on a regular modern V4-At7'd V.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:04 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3031
Location: North Carolina
I was being sarcastic. Mark V at its current state is the best it has ever been. :lol:

There are those who have evaded the Mark V ice, never had it so they do not quite understand the problems others may have had. I can finally say mine has been cured. Just what to do with Edge mode is the next question to come to mind. I will admit it sounds much better than it did before. Could be the tube I have in V2 that makes the difference not to mention the GEQ mod. I actually found use for the Edge mode on CH2 other than avoidance. That particular voice is quite similar to the Brit voice on the Roadster on CH2. Since they are both now similar I have no issue. Before that was another ice pick generator as well as tweed voice on CH1. Overall, I finally see the light in why many love this amp. The 12AT7 is just the icing on the cake for CH3 but without ice part, perhaps it is the "ing" that was missing.

The final solution was the C39 removal, addition of a 3.3k resistive jumper on the GEQ and the Jan/Phillips 12AT7 in V4. I did remove the V6A resistive jumper ( I took it out a while ago and installed it again but with a different resistor 15ohm vs 150 ohm and the Modern voice was less than satisfactory) Perhaps a higher value would have made a difference say closer to the cathode resistor but not equal to it. I figured to divide by 10 would be the place to start. A 330 ohm resistor would also do the trick more so than a solid jumper wire. The V6A mod is not really necessary. However the GEQ mod does tighten things up on all channels and the perception is a more forward pick attack that is on par with the TC series, RA series and JP and it still retains its own voice so it is more of an asset to have than a carpet compressor. I do use it from time to time but have not brought the amp to the front of the stages as it seems the JP-2C and TC-100 have the lime light at the moment. Even my Roadster is left back stage. Reminds me to get it fired up and have some fun. Some how I plan to bring all of my amps into a single project. Perhaps to pair them up with each other. Not sure how I am going to do it but it will be a challenge and a fun project to work on. This time I plan on doing a video of sorts.

Rock on!

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:59 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 180
A/B switchers. Mesa Have just released some, coincidentally sounds like your next port of call.
Good for if you feel the need for multiple rigs, or if you like selecting between them. And even have phase control built in.

Yeah get a vid up man.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 180
The Mark III is now pinnacle sounding with 12AT7s in both Phase Inverter (V5) and V3 the loop and lead channel mode's circuit, apparently. Sounds titanic, has the same picking dynamics as IIC+ mode on the v, organic beautiful gain similar effect as it had on V4 for the V and V:25. Incredible even at respectful evening levels.

Its now:
V1: Mesa SPAX7
V2: Tungsol silver
V3: Mesa 12AT7
V4: Mesa 12AX7
V5: Mesa 12AT7

So gonna have to order in a replacement for one of the AT7s I took out of the V head to do this.
The smoothness, roundedness and lightning feel it brings to the already raw and huge sounding non-simul version is amazing.
Might be handy for some of you guys running blue and green stripes especially (if you're trying to get a more Metallica like thing happening out of them.)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:31 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3031
Location: North Carolina
Hijack notice: Temporary sidetrack for a topic of interest....

Image

The Switch Track is great. At first I thought it was adding a bit of noise as the typical buzz with a high gain setting was more noticeable. I then realized it was getting stronger the closer my hand came to the cable connections so I checked the plugs, one was not seated all the way. Oops... The unit does add a bit of gain to the signal but it is clean gain as this compensates for the isolation transformers that is used on all signal outputs. I am impressed with the function and quality of the Switch Track. No pops on channel changes, I cannot tell with my eyes closed which amp is active when running the clean channels. The TC-50 on clean is a dead ringer for the JP-2C clean channel. The best feature in my books is the "both" function.

Image


I do have another ABY AMP switcher that can be used with stereo pedals. It is OK but not immune to noise pickup. I do not think has a buffered input but sounds like it does. Also there is no strobe mute circuit to swamp out the pops. I found it useful as a static device more than a switcher and the oversized mushroom buttons are awkward. You have to hold them down for a second and there is no guarantee the desired channel will switch. I will not flame here but it works with some unfavorable confusion. I held off doing any comparative recordings for soundcloud or youtube as the little dual switcher was not ideal for the task at hand.

The Mesa Switch track, however is the golden key to dual amp use. I can run up to three amps if I use the tuner out as a center channel but that output will be active at all times. Not sure if the mute function would turn it off. As for the mute part using a common contact switch to do "both or mute", it is a time base function. Hold the button down for about 2 to 3 seconds to get the mute to activate. To get it out of mute, just tap the switch. Also there is no noise associated with mute, or channel switching. Perfectly silent. Since the TC series blue channel (ch2) is out of phase with the JP or Mark V, you can use the button to shift the phase of the B channel. This function can be midi controlled so if you have specific amp you want for a passage of a song and the other for the rest of it or say part is a blend of two amps and you need to have different channels on each amp selected. The phase switch can be midi programmed to correspond with the program number that sets the amp's channels, Both, A or B can also be midi programmed. Nice unit. Now I have to get a midi controller to complete my setup as I still do not have a means to turn on and off the FX loop of the JP unless I use the mini toggle switch on the front panel or use it active and keep the loop in hard bypass using the fx pedal as the gate keeper. A midi controller will take out the pedal dance routine. So why am I not acting on it yet? (the answer to that question is money) Not exactly tapped out but have also funded some recording gear that set me back a bit. That drum set is costing me more than I expected but at least I found the right gear to get a good recording of it.


Derailed thread is now being returned to its content of interest. If you have not tried the Jan/Phillips 12AT7 in V4 of your Mark V:90 what is preventing you from doing so?

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3031
Location: North Carolina
I am getting setup for some recording and figured I would make a statement on the Mark V with the 12AT7 in V4. Holly **** does this amp rock! Sure I made a few mods to my V but that was to cure some tone issues I was having on CH3 beyond what the 12AT7 was providing. As I stated earlier, the jumper mod on V6 was removed as I much prefer the Extreme voice to have more meat but not too much so the original circuit was fine with me. Yes, still have the GEQ mod and that one is staying as well as removal of C39. The hard mods are not required so rock on. Yes, I can finally say that both the Mark V and JP-2C are dead nuts on par with each other. With the Switch track, I am getting a stereo Mark amp and that is far more rewarding than running a pair of 412 cabs with one amp. In the attached image, I placed the Mark V combo on top of the vertical 212 since that will be the cab I will be using to match that of what is under the JP-2C. :shock: The Mark V is a bit brighter than the JP but that is easily remedied with the presence pull controls. I am amazed how much ch2 in crunch voice and a moderate gain setting is close to the CH2 of the JP-2C. Then again, that setting on CH2 is about the same as the Mark IV voice on CH3 with a lower gain setting. Love them both equally so no reason not to be happy? :roll:
I am sure my recording once I have it all set up will be interesting. Yeah, microphones usually sound better when they are connected. Have not gotten to that point yet..... if all works out may share this recording here. Still thinking on doing a video though....a bit more extra work. (in case anybody is wondering what is hiding behind the grill cloth on the Mark V, it is an EVM12L Black Label speaker I bought some time ago, no logo on the dust cap so it hides better than the one's I have loaded up in a 412 cab. I will be adding the same to the 1x12 widebody cab (currently has the OTR speaker in it) so I can downsize the JP and run it with the Mark V combo or use it in parallel with the Mark V combo speaker (nothing is better than a pair of EV speakers pushing some air, well a 412 loaded with them would be but not really needed.)

Image

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:20 am 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 180
Yes thats the one.

Yes having identical sounds in amps would be pointless in the simultaneous operation scenario IMHO.
One way ticket to Mudsville, Mush County (Especially at high gain)
Better off with 1 EV + 2x V30s. Far superior spread and covering of serious frequency range that way, in my experience.
And learning to dial amps around each amp setting's strengths and weaknesses... develop that kinda of thinking, and you'll never leave your amps/the room ever again because of the awesomeness) EG Edge mode and Mark IV for example, Or JP2c and Edge or whatever but basically opposing sounds combining to make a 'distinct new thing that uses the best of both'.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:50 am 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
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Location: North Carolina
I made a crappy video but the sound quality is ok. Always when the Camera is on, loose sight of the plan and end up with the end result. It does compare the Mark V CH3 mkiv voice to the CH2 or CH3 of the JP-2C. Microphones used: Sennheiser e609 on top speaker of each cabinet, SM57 on the bottom speaker at an offset to the center. Focusrite Scarlet Octo Pre Dynamic and direct to recorder/mixer and out to video camera. No post processing. Flat eq. Yes, my playing skills have seen better days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3MYn1qrbJs

Here are the channel settings I used in the video since you cannot see them in the video.



Image

Image

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 180
Wow. The V came across better there for my money.
More full bodied/even across range, mix friendly seeming, and that vintage sound seems to be my thing.
Definitely all aspects that the 12at7 mods play strong with.
The modern tone of the JP is apparent there for sure.
Good demo of the switcher. Like the inframe monitor. Nice touch.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3031
Location: North Carolina
I just got back from correcting the video problem. Bought a new 4K camcorder for much better viewing pleasure. I may do a series of before and after recordings of the Mark V with and without the 12AT7 (will have to swap the tube rather than just take it out and leave it that way). Love the focusrite Scarlet Octo Pre Dynamic preamp. Sweet, it really works great. May try it with the huge mixer along with the ribbon mic and see where that goes. This time I will focus only on the Mark V. As for the JP-2C, I dialed up the presence and adjusted the tone to be similar to the Mark V as it was running on the bright side during the setup part. Then I decided to swap out two tubes (V3 with a stocker and V6 with a Mullard long plate) which subdued some of the treble response. I may just to the chassis pull and leave it out for easy tube swaps like I would normally do when tube rolling. I would not suggest doing that with the JP-2C as that is a Pain to get back into the shell (primarily reconnecting the power cord was the difficult task). Besides, the front panel comes off for preamp tube access so no point to pull the chassis on that amp. Odd that I had to keep reducing the volume level on the Mark V to match the JP-2C set at noon. It was not the bottom end that needed curbing, it was the top end. However, that recording was very close to the real deal, the only thing missing was the mass of air flow from the speakers. The close mic set up took away from the awe of the stereo effect but was close enough. Will have to see if the ribbon mic siting sideways will do much for that effect or not. May need another reference to go with it like an EV RE320 as that mic is amazing when using the cloudlifter. May have to try it with the Focusrite preamp and may do the same with the ribbon mic. Cool, now I have a few new toys to play with while on vacation. 8)

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Mark III

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 279
Location: Good ole England
The JP sounded much more scooped to me, which i gotta admit, did satisfy my insatiable love of 80's metal. But with my now more mature ( yeah right) tonal requirements i did prefer the Mark V overall. It just seemed more agressive and up front. Nice vid, nice playing too. You got chops man. Keen em coming!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Triple Recto

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 3031
Location: North Carolina
I think I had the right and left channels set properly..... Odd that my right and left channels on the PC are not working as I am getting the front an rear channel as left and right. JP-2C is supposed to be on the left and the Mark V on the right. Not sure if that is what anyone has heard in the video. OH well.

I am setting up for the Mark V 12AX7 to 12AT7 comparative video. WTF? I have all mesa tubes in the amp right now and it sounds incredible. No ice pick (I think my one repair on the Tone stack mod may have yielded some improvement, should have cut one leg vs removal and I did not have the same value cap at my disposal. I will go with the plan anyways and make the video and see how things pan out. Odd that the JP-2C was running a bit on the bright side but it could be the STR440 yellows that are allowing for more mustard in salad. Depends on what guitar I am using too. Mahogany set neck Carvin CT6M. Sweet guitar, too bad I threw it onto the drum set during my last jam session. That cymbal stand was not going to give and the finish on the headstock took the hit. Ouch, that guitar was mint, now it has some character to it. Lucky I did not gouge the neck anywhere. That is a good reminder always use a guitar stand and do not lean guitars on amps near the end as when I went to grab it I pushed it over giving it a huge shove while trying to correct for my mistake. I definitely said that four letter word starting with the letter F and it was sharp too. This time I will not need to add a display with small camera pointing on the switch track. Was planning on shelling the amp so I can swap tubes without having to wait for a cool down on the power tubes. Still was expecting a ear drum blowout though. Not this time. Perhaps it is more on par with what most Marks sound like so it is still relevant to do the video. This time in 4K HD, camera has 5.1 surround mic so may not have to kill the sound, just add in the recorded master and be done. Need a click track or something to sync the audio to the video. Never mind, I have a guitar for that. May have to bring out a few other guns like a Fender Dave Murray Strat, that one is bright enough to make my mother cry and she lives 580 miles away. I cannot take requests as I only know one or two songs. I am a slow learner and now an old dog so no new songs for me. :P

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Current amps: TC-100, TC-50, JP-2C, MK V, Roadster, RA100


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