Mark Five:50

Hi all! I've been an anon on this board for a bit and decided to finally make a handle. I don't do forums very much so go easy on me if I say something stupid.

I was wondering if there would be any interest if Mesa made an amp that would take up the space, price and feature wise, in between the Mark Five:25 and the Mark V (hence the title). I personally think it would be really cool for people that don't need everything that the Mark V offers or just can't justify the cost of one.

The Mark Five:25 is amazing but it's gigging potential is a smidge limited. There are a lot of people (around the internet) that have made comments on concerns about its gigging abilities just because of the wattage (mainly for cleans and low end thump). Another gigging drawback is just having two channels; especially because the clean and crunch share a channel (I've seen multiple complaints about this).

The Mark V, for me, is too heavy and big to lug around with me (I've come to terms that I'll never have roadies!). And to be honest with myself, it's a bit expensive for me. I don't own one and I'm sure it's cost is justified but I just can't spend that kind of money.

If the Mark Five:25 were just higher wattage (~50 watts), had three channels, and was still relatively compact and lightweight (maybe using a short head type shell?), I would be extremely satisfied with it! And I think other "lightweight" gigging musicians would too, especially those that gig out and have a home studio.

But what about you guys and gals? Are there any other features you'd like see on it to have it be more giggable (or just features you would want in general)? Is anyone even interested in this idea other than me?

Thanks!

The full V can do 50W. Your best bet is to get a V:25 and a simul-satellite.

I don't see any way to have a middle-ground product that is not 90% the price of a full V. And within 5lbs the weight.

elvis said:

The full V can do 50W. Your best bet is to get a V:25 and a simul-satellite.

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I put the Fryette Power Station on order a couple days ago.

http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/

I am using it for the following
1. Boosting the volume on the 25 when 25 watts just isn't enough
2. An effects loop (and attenuator) for my JCM 800
3. Power amp for my Axe FX

If I were only using it for the Mark V25 and I found that I really needed the extra power, I would probably just pickup the full size Mark V. But being I could use it for those other purposes as well (Especially the effects loop for the JCM 800) it was a no brainer.

I'll let you guys know how it works with the Mark V25 once I get it in and play with it a couple days.

elvis said:

The full V can do 50W. Your best bet is to get a V:25 and a simul-satellite.

I don't see any way to have a middle-ground product that is not 90% the price of a full V. And within 5lbs the weight.

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elvis, I'm aware of the multi-watt features on the Mark V but I just think it's a bit big for me personally. I figured have the power section only put off 50 watts would help keep the weight and dimensions (and price) down. And 90% of the price of a Mark V head ($2000)? If Mesa couldn't make it less than that, it wouldn't be a viable product.

Mesa and it's Mark V is a whole other beast but I was thinking more of the difference between the 5150 iii 100 watt and 50 watt. I know the 50 watt isn't truly three channels (I have one and it's aggravating!) and that Mesa's price difference couldn't be that great but if they made the Mark V:25 50 watts and separated the clean and crunch channel, and those were the only changes, I imagine they could get away with a smaller/lighter amp around the $1700-1800 price point which I feel would make it a very attractive amp.

primal said:

I put the Fryette Power Station on order a couple days ago.

http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/

I am using it for the following
1. Boosting the volume on the 25 when 25 watts just isn't enough
2. An effects loop (and attenuator) for my JCM 800
3. Power amp for my Axe FX

If I were only using it for the Mark V25 and I found that I really needed the extra power, I would probably just pickup the full size Mark V. But being I could use it for those other purposes as well (Especially the effects loop for the JCM 800) it was a no brainer.

I'll let you guys know how it works with the Mark V25 once I get it in and play with it a couple days.

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The Power Station looks amazing! I bet the Five:25 sounds great through some 6l6s! Please let me know how it goes! I've been looking for an attenuator for my home studio and just when I had settled on the Rivera RockCrusher... Ha. Thanks for pointing it out, primal!

I am a big fan of the short head look of the earlier marks vs the long head.

Having a Mark V short head with less power and channel options would be kinda cool. I find the full sized V intimating for my skill level and basic tone needs. Not to mention price.

That said I feel like it if they did mark a Mark V:50 one of the 3 models would fall through the cracks. Similar to what happened to the Single rectifier.

If I were to have a v:50 i would like to see.

- 2 channel.
- 6 same modes in the 25. BUT footswitchable.
- SHORT head.
- 50/10 Watt switchable.

In the end its too much of a balancing act of bridging the V:25 and the V. The money put into research and development, then getting production ready probably wouldnt pay off.

Another thing to think about is that ALOT of the people saying the V:25 cant gig. Either dont have one, never played one, or think to play a gig for 50 people requires a 100w half stack.

primal said:

elvis said:

The full V can do 50W. Your best bet is to get a V:25 and a simul-satellite.

Click to expand...

I put the Fryette Power Station on order a couple days ago.

http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/

I am using it for the following
1. Boosting the volume on the 25 when 25 watts just isn't enough
2. An effects loop (and attenuator) for my JCM 800
3. Power amp for my Axe FX

If I were only using it for the Mark V25 and I found that I really needed the extra power, I would probably just pickup the full size Mark V. But being I could use it for those other purposes as well (Especially the effects loop for the JCM 800) it was a no brainer.

I'll let you guys know how it works with the Mark V25 once I get it in and play with it a couple days.

Click to expand...

Let us know how the Fryette works out. I'm very interested in ordering one for my Axe-Fx as well.

The Power Station looks really cool. That could be an answer to this issue for sure.

wave, I am still pessimistic about the 50W V idea. It's not just about whether it could be made, and for a given price point. It's also about available market and market elasticity. It's going to be tough to differentiate a 50W V from a 25W and a 90W that can do 50W. Then there are other 50W amps like the Express Plus and the Lone Star that has a 50W mode. If someone buys a V:50, odds are that is just stealing a sale from one of the other amps, not adding to the total sales. So it's a bunch of development effort, marketing budget and shelf space, but little or no improvement in total sales.

As it stands, Mesa probably has a VERY difficult time supporting as many products as they have. They just cut the lineup substantially.

Sure, they could make a V:50. But my money is on not. And to be clear, I'd like that product as well. I think a V:25 designed for 6L6 would be really cool. But honestly, if I had a choice between a full-V and a V:50, I'd buy the full V for a few hundred $ more.

Just a thought, maybe a little rack setup with the V:25 could be cool.

Pull the chassis. Get some steel, make a rack mount. Get rack and small power amp... Profit?

Of course you lose that all in one package you get with a head. But the V:25 chassis would only take 1 side up right? have a little mini draw with a couple pedals in next to it.

Just wanted to update and say I got a Mark Five:25 and it's amazing! I haven't had a chance to try it at rehearsal yet but I do know that I wish the Clean and Crunch were on separate channels. Ha. Really unfortunate part of the design but I'd rather carry this around than the big Mark V. Oh well!

Primal, have you used your Mark Five:25 with your Power Station yet? I'm still interested in this route. I emailed Fryette and they informed me that it's fine to run the Power Station just by plugging into the FX Loop (instead of the "Amp in"). Would anybody care to theorize if it would really matter, tone-wise, running the Mark Five:25 FX Loop Out to the Power Station FX Loop In (bypassing the Mark's power section) versus plugging Mark's Speaker Out to the Amp In on the Power Station (which includes the Mark's power section)? I've heard EL84 don't go down as low as bigger glass (which is why I'm interested in bypassing the Mark's power section instead of just amplifying it).

wave_of said:

Just wanted to update and say I got a Mark Five:25 and it's amazing! I haven't had a chance to try it at rehearsal yet but I do know that I wish the Clean and Crunch were on separate channels. Ha. Really unfortunate part of the design but I'd rather carry this around than the big Mark V. Oh well!

Primal, have you used your Mark Five:25 with your Power Station yet? I'm still interested in this route. I emailed Fryette and they informed me that it's fine to run the Power Station just by plugging into the FX Loop (instead of the "Amp in"). Would anybody care to theorize if it would really matter, tone-wise, running the Mark Five:25 FX Loop Out to the Power Station FX Loop In (bypassing the Mark's power section) versus plugging Mark's Speaker Out to the Amp In on the Power Station (which includes the Mark's power section)? I've heard EL84 don't go down as low as bigger glass (which is why I'm interested in bypassing the Mark's power section instead of just amplifying it).

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Looks like my power station will be shipping Monday. I'll let you know.

Definitely will be a tone change I would suspect if you remove the Mark V25's power section by doing effects loop out.

I got to say though, I really enjoy going into 2C+ mode, setting the gain a tad lover then what I like, then putting the master till the power section adds that last little bit of drive back in. Of course you could only do this at drummer volumes. I LOVE that EL84 breakup.

But with the power station I should be able to do and use the power station as an attenuator.

I'm sure I will try both ways though.

For playing 3 piece though, I wouldn't even use the power station with the Mark V25.

I use a mark 5:25 in a 4 piece (Bass, drums, keys and me) and it has gobs of power on tap. I use it with two cabs, one is a straight, MESA cab with a v30, very bright and punchy. The other cab is deeper, DIY cab I made a few years ago and it's got some serious low end to it. The mix of the two cabs is perfect for live use. I drive the amp at about 45% of full volume. Plenty loud enough with a full drum kit and my bass player runs a M9 Carbine with a minimum of 1 4x10 (usually 2).

As far as the channels go, I spend a lot of time on channel 1 with a xotic SP Comp on for cleans, and staying in channel 1, I use a BB Preamp + (the two channel one) for a lot of my distortion/overdrive tones. The BB is amazing, it gives me a nice overdriven sound on one of the channels, and the other channel is right into hard rock/heavy metal territory depending on the guitar I am using. Channel 2 has been more difficult for me to tame for live use, but I am getting there. It's great with the OD channel of the BB on, great for feedback and blistering leads.

I play a very diverse range of music, everything from funk and reggae to hard rock. I tend to lay back in the mix until it's time to go with a solo etc... I don't like sitting right on top of the mix because I feel it interferes with the vocals too much.

That being said, I know a lot of players don't sit back as much as I do, and prefer to be heard (read: in your face) all the time. The Mark 5:25 wouldn't be my first choice if that were the case, or at least I would mic it up and have appropriate sound reinforcement for that sort of thing.

As for the idea of a Mark 5:50, it has some merit, but at the same time the full blown Mark V does that job already. Basically what's being suggested is to take a Mark V and limit it to 50w, which, IMO doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a marketing standpoint... would be a very "niche" thing.

pokerrules47 said:

As for the idea of a Mark 5:50, it has some merit, but at the same time the full blown Mark V does that job already. Basically what's being suggested is to take a Mark V and limit it to 50w, which, IMO doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a marketing standpoint... would be a very "niche" thing.

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Yes...and no. The two features that distinguish and attract me to the V:25 is the EL84 power section and portability. Mesa has already produced a lunchbox amp with 4xEL84 power section (T/A 30), and of course the non-lunchbox Lone Star Special.

I like the idea of a 35 to 50 watt V:25 as an alternative to the Big V. With switchable output wattage it could replace the V:25. Again, either a 4xEL84 or a 2x6L6 switchable to 2xEL34.

dodger916 said:

Yes...and no. The two features that distinguish and attract me to the V:25 is the EL84 power section and portability. Mesa has already produced a lunchbox amp with 4xEL84 power section (T/A 30), and of course the non-lunchbox Lone Star Special.

I like the idea of a 35 to 50 watt V:25 as an alternative to the Big V. With switchable output wattage it could replace the V:25. Again, either a 4xEL84 or a 2x6L6 switchable to 2xEL34.

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The idea behind the V25 was to have a very portable and very adjustable amp. Putting 4 el84's or having a switching tube setup like the road king won't fulfill that concept at all. The 25 is packed in very very tight. I had mine apart last week doing some tube swaps and you can't do it with the head still in the shell very easily at all. These types of features would drive the form factor back up to where the Mark V is.

The perceived volume difference between a 25w and a 50w amp is not "double" the volume. The net db output is NOT linear at all. Similarly, the difference between a 50w Mark V and a 90w Mark V would not be nearly as great as you imagine. The rule of thumb is to double the perceived output, you need 10x the power.

They designed the V25 for people like me that are looking for an amp with some of the great features of a Mark V but do NOT want to have to run the amp at volumes that are very high at all. I can drive the output stage WAY harder than I ever could with my Roadster and the roadster has a global master volume.

The "gigging" abilities are only limited by your imagination. That's what microphones and DI (cab clone) are for. I use mine in a full 4 pc band (lots of midrange frequencies running over each other) and have no issues whatsoever. Now, mind you, it wouldn't be my first choice for stadium rock but I've used it in small clubs to big outdoor stages and have actually been told to turn it down. It's got plenty of punch, growl, low end, grunt, whatever adjective you want to use. They drive a 4x12 fantastically as well.

I used to have a Studio .22+ and when I jammed with my brother in law on his roaring JCM 800, I cut through just fine. It's all in the setup. Choose the right speaker configuration, pedals and figure out what frequency range you want to nail down and you have a serious piece of gigging rig.

pokerrules47 said:

dodger916 said:

Yes...and no. The two features that distinguish and attract me to the V:25 is the EL84 power section and portability. Mesa has already produced a lunchbox amp with 4xEL84 power section (T/A 30), and of course the non-lunchbox Lone Star Special.

I like the idea of a 35 to 50 watt V:25 as an alternative to the Big V. With switchable output wattage it could replace the V:25. Again, either a 4xEL84 or a 2x6L6 switchable to 2xEL34.

Click to expand...

The idea behind the V25 was to have a very portable and very adjustable amp. Putting 4 el84's or having a switching tube setup like the road king won't fulfill that concept at all.

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I didn't say have multiple tubes (6L6 and EL34) running at once, like a Road King. I was referring to having a bias switch (like a Rect-o-verb, Lone Star, etc.) that would allow running either 6L6 or EL34 in a two-socket set-up, not to have both installed simultaneously with four sockets. If 4xEL84s fit, so much the better.

pokerrules47 said:

The 25 is packed in very very tight. I had mine apart last week doing some tube swaps and you can't do it with the head still in the shell very easily at all. These types of features would drive the form factor back up to where the Mark V is.

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Not necessarily, for a 50 watt amp with two power tubes, maybe switchable to 25 and/or 10 watts.

pokerrules47 said:

The perceived volume difference between a 25w and a 50w amp is not "double" the volume. The net db output is NOT linear at all. Similarly, the difference between a 50w Mark V and a 90w Mark V would not be nearly as great as you imagine. The rule of thumb is to double the perceived output, you need 10x the power.

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Agreed, but I never mentioned volume. For me it's not about a louder amp, but one with the ability to have the higher headroom that accompanies higher wattage amps, coupled with the flexibility to run lower wattages for less headroom when wanted/needed.

pokerrules47 said:

They designed the V25 for people like me that are looking for an amp with some of the great features of a Mark V but do NOT want to have to run the amp at volumes that are very high at all. I can drive the output stage WAY harder than I ever could with my Roadster and the roadster has a global master volume.

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And you could drive the volume hard with a 2x6L6 set to 25 watts or 10 watts. Or for venues where more volume is needed, switch it up to 50 watts and preserve the headroom. I love the V:25 concept too, and I have been migrating toward smaller, lower wattage amps myself. I've noticed that 2xEL84 amps just lack the headroom I like, whereas my 4xEL84 amps (DC-3; Orange Dual Terror) deliver what I need....but I miss the Mark sound! So in my wish list there would be a Mark V:50 with the existing preamp, with the 6L6/EL34 option and multiple output wattages, while maintaining portability and flexibility.

If I could coax a Mark lead sound from my DC-3, I wouldn't even be commenting here.

I'd go for a lightweight 3-channel V:25. 25 watts is plenty for most of the gigs I play, but 3 channels (or footswitchable modes to achieve clean, crunch, lead tones without turning back to adjust the amp by hand) and on-board reverb are essential if you'd like to avoid pedals in the interests of simplicity and speed in set-up and tear down - less to haul, connect, and power. I'd buy a big Mark 5, except for the weight - it's crazy heavy if you don't have roadies or aren't in your 20s or 30s any more!

Maybe Mesa should just build ever amp in 1 watt increments so everyone will be happy. :roll:

I want a Mini-Mark V Special Coliseum. 16x EL84 and 4x5Y3. 5w, 15w, 30w, 45w, 60w, 75w, 90w, 105w & 120w modes with Rectifier Tracking and Variac.

Maybe put a pentode/triode switch on each EL84 so I can really dial in the headroom.

screamingdaisy said:

I want a Mini-Mark V Special Coliseum. 16x EL84 and 4x5Y3. 5w, 15w, 30w, 45w, 60w, 75w, 90w, 105w & 120w modes with Rectifier Tracking and Variac.

Maybe put a pentode/triode switch on each EL84 so I can really dial in the headroom.

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

screamingdaisy said:

I want a Mini-Mark V Special Coliseum. 16x EL84 and 4x5Y3. 5w, 15w, 30w, 45w, 60w, 75w, 90w, 105w & 120w modes with Rectifier Tracking and Variac.

Maybe put a pentode/triode switch on each EL84 so I can really dial in the headroom.

Click to expand...

But it'll be too heavy maybe if they left out the pentode switch and just made 27w and 48w

That's all well and good, but can they make it 1U rackmount?