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Hypnotoad696

Hypnotoad696

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In the end the lack of headroom and the el84s just didn't do it for me. After playing a mark iv for most of my young life, the lubchbox just didn't cut it. The volume difference between ch1 and ch2 was the major deal breaker. Trying to get sparkling cleans on ch1 and monster gain on ch2 with equal volume and headroom is virtually impossible. I could peg the volume and tweak the settings on ch1 to get it as loud as it'll go, and ch2 volume on the miv setting would be at about 9 o'clock to equal the volume on peggged clean channel. I toyed with the crunch channel on low gain for cleans to get more volume on ch1, but meh.. Same issue and then the cleans aren't really clean as its on crunch. This seems like a big problem for this amp. Lotta boogie guys play metal which often lends itself to sparkly cleans and heavy gain. Not being able to match the volumes between those two settings seems like something they'll address in their next mark lunchbox. So, sold it, found a like new big daddy V on ebay for 1600 and moving on. Great great tones on the mini for sure, but the volume difference between some of the channels and settings are awful. Attempting to play a tune like the unforgiven or harvester of sorrow with cleans and dirt at a high volume just isn't there. Not sure how my fellow v25 purchasers handle this lack of headroom on the clean chs nel but man i just couldn't get past this.
 
Sorry you couldn't get what you needed from the V:25. Wish you much luck with the V!

I think this is going to be an issue for a good number of players. I don't get it because I just don't play that loud in my band. But I have seen other bands that are really loud, and no way would a 25W amp do the trick.

I get around it in that I run to FOH in case I need some more, and I also have another 25W amp (MR) that I can run in parallel for double the volume when FOH is not available.

Incidentally, I just played a really loud gig (packed house, the bodies absorbed a lot of sound) and I had to really turn up, more and more as the night went on. The clean ran out of headroom. Sounded great, but not so clean. I had to back off a bit on the guitar volume and it worked out OK. A 50W clean channel would have been nice for that, but I would not have wanted to have that headroom on channel 2, which was just ROARING. One day I may build-in some more headroom on channel 1 by switching in a second amp just for clean.
 
To each his own but I don't get the whole "channel volumes don't match" gripe.
Is it because they need the knobs to be the same to satisfy some OCD problem?
 
Exactly. With channel 2 cranked up, there was just no way to get a sparkly clean sound that could come close to equalling the volume. Like I said I coukd set ch1 to crunch mode and back off the guitar volume slightly but too much hassle and makes for an average clean at best. Im surprised more people aren't complaining about this. Ch1 can't keep up with the headroom of channel 2 even a little bit. Doubt I'll have that problem with the 90 watts :). Though from what I've read, even a seasoned boogie user lije myself is in for many many hours of tweaking the big 5 :shock:
 
Interesting.

I don't play a lot of clean. To be honest last time I played with the band only clean tone I played was the intro to enter sandman.

I don't recall having a hard time volume wise with the clean tone. But I am going to pay specific attention to it this next time.

When you play clean are you using the bridge pickup?

I never use the bridge pickup for clean and only use the the neck single coil.

Anyway, if it doesn't work for you you gotta move on.
 
Had NOTHING to do with the quality of the clean setting. Was sparkling and beautiful. However, if you want the clean tone to match the volume and the dirty channel 2 (turned up to moderate volume), it's impossible. I wanted to be able to set my sparkling cleans at an equal volume to my high gain channel, and with the 25 this is completely impossible. Just not enough headroom. Think of a song like the unforgiven, or one, or harverster of sorrow, or fade to black.. (no, im not a tallica fanboy, these are just good examples)... where there are sparkling cleans and heavy dirt. With the 25 there is NO way to make the cleans the same volume as the dirt that follows in the tunes. Even with the clean channel volume pegged completely, the dirt channel at about 8 oclock is soooooooooooooooooooooo much louder. Switching between cleans and dirt and keeping the volume consistent is impossible. I assume they will adress this in the mark V 25 part two, and put a 45W mode or something on the clean. But for now, if you are looking to switch between sparkling cleans (which the amp does awesome) and dirt(which the amp does awesome), and keep the volume consistent, it will NOT happen. Total deal breaker for me. I want to be able to play some cleans and switch to heavy gain and keep the volume consistent. The 25 cannot do that even a little, unless you are at extreme low bedroom volumes. Which is why I sold mine and picked up the big daddy V
 
That's just something you must accept from a 25 watt amp. The lack of headroom is a blessing for us bedroom players but without a PA live gigs could be a problem. A Simul-Satelite would be a great problem solver. :wink:
The right tool for the job I guess.
 
I play bedroom a lot too, but still, the full bore mark series is still one of the best bedroom amps there are. My IV was incredible at bedroom volumes. Just gotta know how to tweak and main output in relation to the channels masters. I'd bet dollars to donuts my full V sounds better at low volume than the mini. Actually, I know this for a fact since I've no owned both ;-) lower wattage does NOT equal better sounding at low volumes. Just aint how it works.
 
Hypnotoad696 said:
I play bedroom a lot too, but still, the full bore mark series is still one of the best bedroom amps there are. My IV was incredible at bedroom volumes. Just gotta know how to tweak and main output in relation to the channels masters. I'd bet dollars to donuts my full V sounds better at low volume than the mini. Actually, I know this for a fact since I've no owned both ;-) lower wattage does NOT equal better sounding at low volumes. Just aint how it works.
Click to expand...

+1. I can play my Mark IV at high gain with my girlfriend sleeping in the room directly above me. But if one desires power tube overdrive, then lower wattage will get you there sooner, and perhaps sweeter with EL84s.
 
elvis said:
Sorry you couldn't get what you needed from the V:25. Wish you much luck with the V!

I think this is going to be an issue for a good number of players. I don't get it because I just don't play that loud in my band. But I have seen other bands that are really loud, and no way would a 25W amp do the trick.

I get around it in that I run to FOH in case I need some more, and I also have another 25W amp (MR) that I can run in parallel for double the volume when FOH is not available.

Incidentally, I just played a really loud gig (packed house, the bodies absorbed a lot of sound) and I had to really turn up, more and more as the night went on. The clean ran out of headroom. Sounded great, but not so clean. I had to back off a bit on the guitar volume and it worked out OK. A 50W clean channel would have been nice for that, but I would not have wanted to have that headroom on channel 2, which was just ROARING. One day I may build-in some more headroom on channel 1 by switching in a second amp just for clean.
Click to expand...

Hi Elvis - at the mentioned gig, did you not have FOH or your mini rec handy? Or was it too late to make those changes as you were busy playing? Or did you have the mini-rec/FOH and it still wasn't enough headroom? :shock:
 
even with the clean channel volume pegged completely, the dirt channel at about 8 oclock is soooooooooooooooooooooo much louder. Switching between cleans and dirt and keeping the volume consistent is impossible.
Click to expand...

This is really interesting because there are more complaints here, about the clean channel being so much louder than Channel 2, (with the volumes anywhere close to the same setting). There have been multiple "complaints" here and at TGP, of people having trouble matching channel volumes because the clean channel is so much louder than C2. In fact, I was thinking even Elvis posted about this....

If I'm in fat and IIC+, my clean volume a 9:00 is louder than my IIC+ volume is at 10:00. In fact, 8:30 is louder and maybe even 8:00 is louder than 10:00 on the gain channel. So reading that clean channel completely dimed isn't as loud as gain channel on 8:00 is not computing... And yes, I know the clean channel comes on hot at low settings, so I'm sure that somewhere up the dial it runs out of headroom and the gain channel catches up. But 8:00 on my master on the gain channels is not that loud and I routinely play with it above that at home with the wife home.

In theory, a high gain channel is always going to be "louder" than the clean channel if for no other reason that the compression of the gain stages makes most of your notes push the output stage like only your hardest hit notes could on a clean stage. The compression of the high gain pre-amp just pushes harder and harder on the power stage, compared to an open dynamic clean channel. Drop a comp and an OD with the level up on that clean channel and it should be about as loud as the gain channel...
 
Rectifried said:
Hi Elvis - at the mentioned gig, did you not have FOH or your mini rec handy? Or was it too late to make those changes as you were busy playing? Or did you have the mini-rec/FOH and it still wasn't enough headroom? :shock:
Click to expand...

I just had the V:25 by itself, no second power amp, no FOH. It held its own really well, but I might put a second cab on the other side of the stage in the future. I really like running ch2 with the power tubes pushed, but it is always going to be a tradeoff. I keep the input gain really low, so I am hitting the power tubes hard.

To be clear, the clean was very useable. But it was by no means sparkly clean. It was pushed quite a bit. HOWEVER, I had it on FAT with gain at like 1:00. So I could have probably switched to clean and dropped the input gain and cleaned it up. Still, at some volume level you will saturate the EL84s no matter what you do.

I did have the amp wired into one of the FOH channels, but I wanted to test the amp out a bit and it was no issue that clean wasn't super clean. It was actually quite nice with a bit of breakup. Just had to be judicious with the strumming.
 
Dreamtheaterrules said:
This is really interesting because there are more complaints here, about the clean channel being so much louder than Channel 2, (with the volumes anywhere close to the same setting). There have been multiple "complaints" here and at TGP, of people having trouble matching channel volumes because the clean channel is so much louder than C2. In fact, I was thinking even Elvis posted about this....

If I'm in fat and IIC+, my clean volume a 9:00 is louder than my IIC+ volume is at 10:00. In fact, 8:30 is louder and maybe even 8:00 is louder than 10:00 on the gain channel. So reading that clean channel completely dimed isn't as loud as gain channel on 8:00 is not computing... And yes, I know the clean channel comes on hot at low settings, so I'm sure that somewhere up the dial it runs out of headroom and the gain channel catches up. But 8:00 on my master on the gain channels is not that loud and I routinely play with it above that at home with the wife home.
Click to expand...

At low volume, the ch1 master must be set much lower than the ch2 master for equal volume. When you play loud, ch1 maxes out at about 11:00 while ch2 keeps getting louder to 2:00 or more. Eventually ch2 wins.
 
dodger916 said:
Two EL84s will run out of headroom at higher volumes. Mesa needs a beefier power section, either two more EL84s or a two x 6L6 version. I'm waiting for version 2...
Click to expand...

I can't imagine why Mesa would do this. If you need more power, buy the big V. You get the extra channel, 3 power modes and WAY more low-end, thanks to the beefier tubes.

I'd rather see a 25W satellite for stereo. Two 25W amps would be louder than a single 50W and probably very close to 100W volume, but in stereo. In a Rectoverb 25 combo form factor it would be pretty convenient to run stereo, W/D or W/D/W with pretty much any other amp.
 
Hypnotoad696 said:
I play bedroom a lot too, but still, the full bore mark series is still one of the best bedroom amps there are. My IV was incredible at bedroom volumes. Just gotta know how to tweak and main output in relation to the channels masters. I'd bet dollars to donuts my full V sounds better at low volume than the mini. Actually, I know this for a fact since I've no owned both ;-) lower wattage does NOT equal better sounding at low volumes. Just aint how it works.
Click to expand...

Depends on the tone you are looking for. With gain at noon, sure, the preamp dominates and you can run any volume you want. It's all saturation.

I run gain at 9:30. There is a HUGE difference for me with loud vs. quiet. I can run at home quite quietly, no problem, but the amp really shines when it's loud. At home I like to run through the direct out with the amp master the same as I would use it live.
 
elvis said:
Rectifried said:
Hi Elvis - at the mentioned gig, did you not have FOH or your mini rec handy? Or was it too late to make those changes as you were busy playing? Or did you have the mini-rec/FOH and it still wasn't enough headroom? :shock:
Click to expand...

I just had the V:25 by itself, no second power amp, no FOH. It held its own really well, but I might put a second cab on the other side of the stage in the future. I really like running ch2 with the power tubes pushed, but it is always going to be a tradeoff. I keep the input gain really low, so I am hitting the power tubes hard.

To be clear, the clean was very useable. But it was by no means sparkly clean. It was pushed quite a bit. HOWEVER, I had it on FAT with gain at like 1:00. So I could have probably switched to clean and dropped the input gain and cleaned it up. Still, at some volume level you will saturate the EL84s no matter what you do.

I did have the amp wired into one of the FOH channels, but I wanted to test the amp out a bit and it was no issue that clean wasn't super clean. It was actually quite nice with a bit of breakup. Just had to be judicious with the strumming.
Click to expand...

ok that's great info, thanks :)
 
Dreamtheaterrules said:
even with the clean channel volume pegged completely, the dirt channel at about 8 oclock is soooooooooooooooooooooo much louder. Switching between cleans and dirt and keeping the volume consistent is impossible.
Click to expand...

This is really interesting because there are more complaints here, about the clean channel being so much louder than Channel 2, (with the volumes anywhere close to the same setting). There have been multiple "complaints" here and at TGP, of people having trouble matching channel volumes because the clean channel is so much louder than C2. In fact, I was thinking even Elvis posted about this....

If I'm in fat and IIC+, my clean volume a 9:00 is louder than my IIC+ volume is at 10:00. In fact, 8:30 is louder and maybe even 8:00 is louder than 10:00 on the gain channel. So reading that clean channel completely dimed isn't as loud as gain channel on 8:00 is not computing... And yes, I know the clean channel comes on hot at low settings, so I'm sure that somewhere up the dial it runs out of headroom and the gain channel catches up. But 8:00 on my master on the gain channels is not that loud and I routinely play with it above that at home with the wife home.

In theory, a high gain channel is always going to be "louder" than the clean channel if for no other reason that the compression of the gain stages makes most of your notes push the output stage like only your hardest hit notes could on a clean stage. The compression of the high gain pre-amp just pushes harder and harder on the power stage, compared to an open dynamic clean channel. Drop a comp and an OD with the level up on that clean channel and it should be about as loud as the gain channel...
Click to expand...

This has been my experience.

Clean for me is very loud!

Now the OP talks about pristine clean. So not sure where he is setting his gain. A very low gain setting to get pristine clean may be why he had the issue with volume.

I had an empty house and just did a double check and my clean channel at 10:00 with the gain at noon is VERY loud.

Pristine?? no.

But I think it sounds very nice on the neck pickup. Clean enough that I have no issue playing metallica cleans like sanitarium with it and having it match the volume in 2C mode.

For me if there is ever a volume issue it is getting channel 2 to equal channel 1. Channel 2 volume knob always set higher then channel 1
 

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