Load box made out of a paperless speaker?

Hi!

Hopefully the most technical members will bear with me for a minute:

Would a paperless speaker stuck inside a small wooden padded box work as a (cheap) load box for quiet recording with a Mark V?

My idea would be to use the Slave Out, connect it to my soundcard or a cab simulator and use it that way to record, whilst having the speaker disconnected for afterhours playing.

This way the amp would effectively be connected to a speaker, the speaker would move to and from as it's supposed to, only it wouldn't produce any sound without its paper membrane. And the box could be sealed and padded too, to make even more silent.

Even considering some possible impedance mismatching - if the speaker doesn't have any membrane, then its acoustic impedance would decrease so maybe that difference would have to be compensated in some other way - wouldn't this make a silent load box?
The idea of not disconnecting the Speaker Out is because the amp always needs a load to function properly, right?
So why not give him what he's asking for (for me, a Boogie is a "he"... not an "it" or a "she"... sorry, ladies!...)?

Am I missing something? (of course I am... but where?)

Thanks!

Andre' Toscano

Isn't this what a Weber MASS is? A speaker driver with no cone?

drs said:

Isn't this what a Weber MASS is? A speaker driver with no cone?

Click to expand...

Hmmm... ok... so maybe I should check this stuff out before trying to reinvent the wheel, right?

Anyway, my idea was precisely to have a clean and inexpensive load box that could be home made... that Weber MASS looks like something that needs a manual of its own.

Just wanted to know where my plan of a paperless speaker would fail, as it seems like an easy thing to try.

Thanks!

andretoscano said:

Hi!

Hopefully the most technical members will bear with me for a minute:

Would a paperless speaker stuck inside a small wooden padded box work as a (cheap) load box for quiet recording with a Mark V?

My idea would be to use the Slave Out, connect it to my soundcard or a cab simulator and use it that way to record, whilst having the speaker disconnected for afterhours playing.

This way the amp would effectively be connected to a speaker, the speaker would move to and from as it's supposed to, only it wouldn't produce any sound without its paper membrane. And the box could be sealed and padded too, to make even more silent.

Even considering some possible impedance mismatching - if the speaker doesn't have any membrane, then its acoustic impedance would decrease so maybe that difference would have to be compensated in some other way - wouldn't this make a silent load box?
The idea of not disconnecting the Speaker Out is because the amp always needs a load to function properly, right?
So why not give him what he's asking for (for me, a Boogie is a "he"... not an "it" or a "she"... sorry, ladies!...)?

Am I missing something? (of course I am... but where?)

Thanks!

Andre' Toscano

Click to expand...

Have you looked at Mesa's Cab Clone?

Dom

domct203 said:

andretoscano said:

Hi!

Hopefully the most technical members will bear with me for a minute:

Would a paperless speaker stuck inside a small wooden padded box work as a (cheap) load box for quiet recording with a Mark V?

My idea would be to use the Slave Out, connect it to my soundcard or a cab simulator and use it that way to record, whilst having the speaker disconnected for afterhours playing.

This way the amp would effectively be connected to a speaker, the speaker would move to and from as it's supposed to, only it wouldn't produce any sound without its paper membrane. And the box could be sealed and padded too, to make even more silent.

Even considering some possible impedance mismatching - if the speaker doesn't have any membrane, then its acoustic impedance would decrease so maybe that difference would have to be compensated in some other way - wouldn't this make a silent load box?
The idea of not disconnecting the Speaker Out is because the amp always needs a load to function properly, right?
So why not give him what he's asking for (for me, a Boogie is a "he"... not an "it" or a "she"... sorry, ladies!...)?

Am I missing something? (of course I am... but where?)

Thanks!

Andre' Toscano

Click to expand...

Have you looked at Mesa's Cab Clone?

Dom

Click to expand...

Actually, the Cab Clone wouldn't work in this situation. It doesn't work as a load box, it's just a cab/speaker/mic simulator.
You would have to leave the Speaker Out connected on the Mark V, which would defeat the purpose of silent playing afterhours.

I am aware there is a market for attenuators and load boxes out there.
Most of the good ones are expensive (as most things in life).

I was just wondering if someone could explain what would be the technical reason for the "paperless speaker" solution not to work, as it seems such a quick and easy fix for this problem.
Obviously I'm looking at this wrongly (otherwise, no need for expensive load boxes). Just wanted to know what's so impossible about this idea.

Thanks!

The Cab Clone is most certainly a load box as well as simulator, I should know as I own one.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/pedals/cab-clone-simulator.html#gpm1_3

I'm sure that if it were as simple as a cone-less speaker, units like the Cab Clone, THD Hotplate, Weber Mass, etc would not exsist.

Dom

I am speculating that it would likely make a horrible vibrating noise as the voice coil vibrated within the magnet chamber. I'm not a speaker expert, but I believe the surround and paper cone act to help keep the voice coil centered and properly aligned between the magnets (in addition to the spider), without those to stabilize the driver, the voice coil would be all over the place.

I'm not certain of this, however, so maybe try something similar with a stereo and cheap speaker and see what happens. You wouldn't even need a box just to test the theory.

Darrell

This wouldn't work. Without the paper, the voice coil would shoot out of the cone.

Also, the movement of the speaker puts back-pressure on the voice coil, which affects the impedance of the speaker. The DC impedance is what you can measure with a multimeter, but the coil also has AC impedance from the electromotive force.

I built a load box once from a high-power resistor, a coil inductor and a couple capacitors. Cheap, and worked pretty well. You can get schematics online. I used the circuit from a speaker model that one of the speaker manufacturers had come up with.

domct203 said:

The Cab Clone is most certainly a load box as well as simulator, I should know as I own one.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/pedals/cab-clone-simulator.html#gpm1_3

Dom

Click to expand...

You're absolutely right! Sorry about that. My mistake.
Guess I've seen so many of these things in the past couple of weeks that I probably thought you were talking about something else.

Cheers!

Andre'

elvis said:

This wouldn't work. Without the paper, the voice coil would shoot out of the cone.

Also, the movement of the speaker puts back-pressure on the voice coil, which affects the impedance of the speaker. The DC impedance is what you can measure with a multimeter, but the coil also has AC impedance from the electromotive force.

Click to expand...

Well, that settles the argument.

Thanks for the explanation.

Best regards!

There is such a thing already, made for a similar use - if you scroll down to the bottom of this page:

https://taweber.powweb.com/amptechtools/truload.htm

It's shown in raw 'tech' form rather than a ready to go solution, but it's basically the core of a speaker--no frame, no magnet, no cone. The amp sees a speaker load, but virtually no volume is produced. It can be mounted to something and apparently produces of sound, but not so little that it would be that loud I suspect.

At the top of that page is the building block for a pure, high-wattage resistive load. Speaker loads are more variable than resistor loads, but OTs(output transformers) are at least as happy, if not "more happy" driving a suitable resistive load than an actual speaker (speakers are more than just resistive loads), so those are a good option, too.

Most players are looking for a way to attenuate volume by not eliminate it, or to to simplify speakers & mic variables, while simultaneously driving a real speaker when live or recording--hence attenuators, cabinet simulation, etc. being more prevalent.

For techs, having a way to run the amp at all sorts of gain/output levels but not needing to hear any volume at all is useful for testing the amp for certain things. So, these 'tech' speaker loads work for that, and would likely fit your particular need and use as well if properly implemented.

domct203 said:

The Cab Clone is most certainly a load box as well as simulator, I should know as I own one.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/pedals/cab-clone-simulator.html#gpm1_3

I'm sure that if it were as simple as a cone-less speaker, units like the Cab Clone, THD Hotplate, Weber Mass, etc would not exsist.

Dom

Click to expand...

Absolutely - not to mention the OP's desire to use the Slave Out for the signal to his console, which is not what its intended for and does not sound very good for this purpose. CabClone is the perfect solution. Thanks!

Authorized Boogie said:

domct203 said:

The Cab Clone is most certainly a load box as well as simulator, I should know as I own one.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/pedals/cab-clone-simulator.html#gpm1_3

I'm sure that if it were as simple as a cone-less speaker, units like the Cab Clone, THD Hotplate, Weber Mass, etc would not exsist.

Dom

Click to expand...

Absolutely - not to mention the OP's desire to use the Slave Out for the signal to his console, which is not what its intended for and does not sound very good for this purpose. CabClone is the perfect solution. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Actually, the idea would be to connect the Slave Out directly to my soundcard and further process the sound with some plug-in like Nebula.
Just needed a way to muffle the speaker sound so as to not disturb the rest of the household/neighbors.

The CabClone is probably my best bet, as it's a two-in-one solution: load box and cabinet simulator. Probably not as complex or feature rich as something like the Nebula software, but truthfully, the longer I fiddle with software, the less I play...

Thanks!

Hello Andreatoscano!

I have read would you like to do. I myself has also built several load boxes with different result.
The principal with a normal speaker, is that the cone moves air in form of waves and the ear picks it up like sound.

Speaker driver is another thing, some have a membrane inside, therefor it need some cone of some sort to amplify the sound waves. Without and air, we can't hear any sound.

Now I'm using a Two Notes Torpedo Live and it sounds very good and it's very easy to use and the result is good right away. Ok, is not cheap, but it will do the work very well.

2B