Any suggestions on making the V come ALIVE!

Hello All-

First of all, I love this amp!

Second, my only issue with the amp is that it can seem very static at times and not give that 'living and breathing' quality that is SO crucial in achieving tone nirvana. It seems to lack that rounded, bell-like tone sometimes.

Any suggestions on opening this thing up (ie: tube roll and type(s), 6L6 vs. el34, graphic eq manipulation, presence adjustment, triad vs. pentode, etc.)? Thanks for your ideas!!!

If you want someone to make a useful suggestion you probably should give more detail as to how you're using the amp already and what specifically you'd like to change.
Band or solo, volume, settings, cab and guitar, style, etc.

Crank it up.

I agree.

SteveO said:

Crank it up.

Click to expand...

Find a good boost (I use a Suhr Koko) to push it into that sweet singing lead or saturated rhythm territory. Use triode on channel 3 and tube rectification for channels 1/2 in 45w settings. And, yeah, it sounds good at a lot of levels, but sounds much more punchy and dynamic in its response when cranked.

Speaking from personal experience (see the other topic, http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=67618 ), the best advice you get here is always adjust the amp with your ears, not with your eyes. That's what helped me.

Yes, the V is a finicky amp. I know all too well it has a tendency to sound a bit too stiff or rigid to my taste. For me, switching over to quality EL-34s made it much easier to come up with 'breathing' or 'alive' tones, but even then, the channel 3 sounds often fell short.
...until I started adjusting the amp with my ears, that is.
(Your sound ideals could differ from mine, so EL-34s might not work for you.)

Other than that,

SteveO said:

Crank it up.

Click to expand...

...is the next best advice. Really.

I understand what you are asking about. I think the best thing to do is try everything. Try all 10W 45W and 90W settings. My favorite so far is the 90W setting. But I have a few jobs coming up and on my next job (Gig) I am giving 10W across the board a try. I seem to find out what sounds best when I’m working. Tonight I set everything to 10W, tube on ch1 & 2, diode on 3 and adjusted things to some very nice tones. Now I'm going to see how it goes Saturday night. It's a restaurant outdoor patio job, never played there before so it's going to be interesting.

Bottom Line: The amp sounds great when it is as they already said, Cranked up. The Master Volume set at least half way up and the channel volumes around 10 olock it will really start talking to you.

Based on your signature, you have the Mark V head.. If it was a combo, I would suggest a 412 cabinet or swap the MC90 for something else like Fane Studio 12L, Electro Voice EMV12L, Jensen Jet Black Bird ALNICO 12 inch (first two are difficult to muster unless you convert to front mount, Jensen would be a drop in.)

Tube rolling can be subjective. The Mullard reissue can liven things up a bit as well as other preamp tubes like Tung Sol, EH, etc... My favorite would be the vintage Mesa Chinese tubes from the 90's but they will increase amount of compression on CH3 in Mark IV mode. As for the power tubes, SED=C-6L6GC work very well, TAD6L6GC-STR are also interesting. Gold lion KT77 can really push the envelope and the 6CA7 is also a fun tube (I tried JJ but they did not last very long, perhaps EH would be better).

I would agree with comments provided by the others who responded. I generally do not use pedals but they can offer some change in the gain stack if you use an overdrive. I usually go by what I am hearing, if I get tired of it, I change the preamp or power tubes if adjustments on the amp controls are insufficient.

OldTelecasterMan said:

I understand what you are asking about. I think the best thing to do is try everything. Try all 10W 45W and 90W settings. My favorite so far is the 90W setting. But I have a few jobs coming up and on my next job (Gig) I am giving 10W across the board a try. I seem to find out what sounds best when I’m working. Tonight I set everything to 10W, tube on ch1 & 2, diode on 3 and adjusted things to some very nice tones. Now I'm going to see how it goes Saturday night. It's a restaurant outdoor patio job, never played there before so it's going to be interesting.

Bottom Line: The amp sounds great when it is as they already said, Cranked up. The Master Volume set at least half way up and the channel volumes around 10 olock it will really start talking to you.

Click to expand...

If I remember correctly from the manual, putting it in 10 watt mode negates the option to choose tube rectification. The amp will automatically choose diode.

I thought the 10 watt mode used the tube rectifier I checked the manual and it didn't really say.

bdubbs said:

I thought the 10 watt mode used the tube rectifier I checked the manual and it didn't really say.

Click to expand...

It's toward the bottom of pg.5 in the manual.

90w always diode
45w selectable
10w always tube

Doh! Got it backwards.

Captain Obvious here... I'd suggest getting the manual out again and go through all the modes with the manual open in front of you. It helps with the Mark and I've had other amps that going back to the manual really helped me. You can get lost when tweaking and it can be really hard to get back without a roadmap because some of the modes have counterintuitive control settings. The next mode is completely different. Manuals and maps ... and instructions are usually items of last resort but with the Mark V, the manual is your FRIEND.
I found the same thing in the past with modeling amps that I've used for playing around the house. The controls for every model do different things and I would get things all messed up. Going back to the manual and reminding myself what the knobs do in on different models would always make a world of difference, same with the Mark V. I even had to change the pickups in one guitar to get better tone with the Mark. I had changed the pickups in one Strat to CS 54s. They sounded SWEET with some amps. With the Mark V they sounded thin. I went back to the Fast Track pups pickups that used to be in it. It now sounds great. I have an Am Deluxe Strat that gives me good tone the way it is. Anyway... the guitar can also make difference.

J

Back in my high-end audio days we used to call an amp´s character too "analytical" when it was perfect in theory, linear, but lacking that "organic" element that takes you close to the real experience of a live concert.

One of the Mark V´s finest qualities, the ability to keep relatively accurate note track and clarity in high gain territory, may turn against you depending on the tone you are after, a particular song emotional soundscape, or your playing mood at a certain time. If that´s the case, try adding some non-linearities, like driving the amp´s gain a little higher (when saturation becomes obvious in the bass region), increasing your treble level (it´s somehow like adding a Tubescreamer in front), etc. Scooping the midrange can also help, as well as adding an overdrive in front - I would choose one that doesn´t add too much to the midrange section, for example a BB Preamp would be fine.

You can also experiment with the interaction of your presence knob (for some reason there is a tendency to set it under 12:00 among us MV users) with the last EQ band for that bell-like quality you are after, which will be emphasized on lower settings of the 750Hz EQ band.

Best,
Marcelo

Keep in mind that the control range changes for each voicing of the channel (ex. CLEAN/FAT/TWEED) so take the time to set the voicing type and then dial in the controls from scratch again. This is typical for Mesa products and is mentioned in the manual as well. I found this to be helpful with any Mesa amp I've had. Obviously alway use your ears and ignore where you might think the knob "should" be.

Try the lighter voicing in Ch2 and crank the gain a bit. I was able to get some of the most "alive" dynamic response from this channel on "Edge" mode with the gain somewhere between 2:00 and 3:00, and then added a compressor/boost pedal up front to add some "crispness".

Also found use of CH3 in a similar way but on the "Extreme" voicing and dialing the gain off a little.

Tweed power seems to have a better feel to it IMO, just turn the master volume up a bit. I like the 10w mode for low volume playing but 45w and 90w seem to have the best tones especially when trying to switch seamlessly between channels while playing.

**I have found that some digital effects tend to drain the life out of this amp.

I would definitely agree, setting a higher gain on CH2 in edge, even better in crunch, look out you will get hooked. Mark I is a bit different, bass and mids need to be dialed down. Helps to boost the presence and treble and adjust the gain for your desired distortion effect.

+1 on revisiting the manual. If you do not have one, download it from the Mesa website.

I have changed tubes in this amp too many times and forgot what it sounded like in its original state. Most recently I returned all of the stock preamp tubes back into their positions. However, I no longer have the stock power tubes, so the next best thing were either the SED 6L6GC or the Gold Lion KT77. Seems the harmonic content of the KT77 is similar to the =C= 6L6GC and not as deep in the low frequencies but still has good qualities with bass response for an EL34 type tube. If you decide to experiment with EL34 Type tubes, there are some that cannot be used in the 10W mode and some to avoid (EL34L) due to bias. If you venture into other tubes, indicate they are for the Mark V.

Try Using pre set EQ setting on 12 o'clock on each channel...really opens up the sound..

Wow, lots of great insight and ideas came from this post.

Question on “pups” I have been using 2 Telecasters, They each have their own tone, night and day if I were to compare them. I have been using them because I can get Sparkly clean, drive and overdrive just from running the volume. I can play entire songs and just run the volume up for leads and back down for rhythm. I have a few guitars with Humbuckers but they are basically decomposing (music joke) in their cases. Is there a Humbucker that cleans up when the volume on the guitar is turned down or what can I do to get them to be more dynamic?

OldTelecasterMan said:

Is there a Humbucker that cleans up when the volume on the guitar is turned down or what can I do to get them to be more dynamic?

Click to expand...

My current experience is mostly PRS related, and can speak highly of the 57/08 and 59/09's - turned down or split to get the response you are looking for. Like you, I ride the vol / tone controls through an amp set on the cusp of breakup with guitar vol set around 6/7. Less for cleaner, more for serious growl

Other HB's will get you there too .. look up Bare Knuckle for hand wound, customised options

PRS! I have 4, each with different pickups, and all 4 are exceptional at this. But with some cap experimentation a number of pickups will get you there.