MK V Extreme Less Gain Than IV Setting?

Hello all!

I'm trying to get used to my new V and so far so good.

Quick question (tried Googling this with no positive results). AFAIK, the Extreme mode is supposed to be a higher gain mode than the IV, right?

I mean, all else being equal (EQ, triode/pentode, volume, gain setting), it seems that the Extreme mode in my amp is indeed a bit louder but the gain seems to fade out a bit.

It sounds like maybe it is because this mode is shifted a bit down in the frequency response range.

Any input on this?

Same result with mine, probably normal.

My Extreme is just louder, looser and.. I dunno, I havent found a use for it yet. They should have made the Extreme mode the presence pull-shift of the Mark IV. Maybe I should roll tubes but it's no where close. The Mark IV's (real Mark IV) lead channel is getting used more and more lately.

Extreme mode is much fatter than the other two modes in channel three, which makes it sound like it has less gain. But it doesn't.

Yeah, I find the same. Louder and boomier but less gain. I never use it. Mark IV mode is smoother and clearer and has better high gain feel. Extreme is just all flubby and mushy to my ear.

Extreme mode is stiff and dry. What you are hearing and feeling is not lack of gain or sustain. It's your naked technique without any slush to cover it up.

What you're hearing in CH3 Extreme mode is perhaps less saturation, not less gain.

I've only used extreme when messing around with stuff like Killswitch Engage or similar tones. For strong, rhythmic, riff-based metal. For everything else, I usually go with MK IV or IIc+ mode. I'm sure others have found better ways to use it, but that's just my experience.

I agree its less saturation. You gotta have a tight guitar game to play on extreme.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Interestingly enough, I was flipping between modes on CH3 and using the bright setting, which I had never used, and I landed on this perfect lead tone.

I could have sworn I was on MK IIC+ mode, however; to my surprise, I was in Extreme lol!

So far, this accidental discovery is my favorite tone on this whole amp!

When I first got my Mark V I recorded a quick vid of me fooling around with the Extreme Mode.

The playing isn't great and completely off the top of my head but you can hear the gain. I kind of like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G0WiJWgXk0

The extreme mode increases the voltage to the power tubes and preamp tubes (not by much) so it seems the volume is boosted and the gain reduced. Actually it was design to increase a bit of headroom for single note clarity, hit it with a power chord and you will be amazed. I usually drop my channel voltage if I use the Extreme. Note, Extreme voice is Mark V only, it is not a Mark IV mode by any means as many have stated, "Mark IV extreme" (where did that come from?) Read your manual about the CH3 voice modes. If you don't have one, download it from Mesa. The extreme voice cannot be achieved with a Mark IV amp (harmonic switch, pentode/triode, or the Pull-shift will not get you there). Also if you have ever played a Mark IV though a 412? totally different beast than the combo. too much of a tangent, sorry for the side track.

Don't forget to try the triode mode and compare it to pentode. Too bad they did not have that switch on the front panel.

I like the difference in the tone of the Extreme vs IV. Set that on the dark side and let it rip. I normally use the IV mode but do set up the Extreme for some songs that just do not sound right in the IV mode.

If it's boomy and drier just hit it with an od808 or the likes.
EMG81 probably helps sits it just right as well.
Never played a Mk5, so I'm just guessing here.

TRENCHLORD said:

If it's boomy and drier just hit it with an od808 or the likes.
EMG81 probably helps sits it just right as well.
Never played a Mk5, so I'm just guessing here.

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Also, try turning down the bass a touch, which I found helps in tightening up the bottom end .. but like others here, I am generally more at home in MKIV mode for the stuff I do

Extreme mode is IV with presence pulled, IIRC. We talked about this a lot when the amp first hit the streets. Been s'long I can't really remember. As I recall, there's more negative feedback in the power section = less gainy feel.

It does its thing. Works well for drop tuned stuff. Or you can set up Extreme for your rhythm sound and MKI mode in CH2 for your lead sound. Awwwyeah.

I think it's the mark iv with the presence pushed not pulled. But I could be wrong.

Yes, the Extreme mode is available on the Mark IV if you PUSH IN the presence knob. It´s pretty similar to the Extreme mode, but not exactly the same, but neither is the Mark IV mode the V. Both are great though.

Per the Mark V manual

EXTREME traces its’ lineage back to a feature on the MARK IV that resided on the Channel 3 (LEAD) PRESENCE control of that amp. A pull-pot fitted there allowed removal of negative feedback from the power section and unleashed the pent-up fury of the Simul-ClassTM output.

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Not sure what Mark IV they are referring too, definitely not the version b. The Mark V in Mark IV mode sounds more like the Mark IV with the presence knob pushed in, with the presence knob pulled out is sounds more like the Mark IIC+ mode with the power section set to triode. Whereas Extreme mode sounds way better than either.. I guess I need to use Mesa JJ tubes and the Ruby power tubes to notice.

bandit2013 said:

Not sure what Mark IV they are referring too, definitely not the version b. The Mark V in Mark IV mode sounds more like the Mark IV with the presence knob pushed in, with the presence knob pulled out is sounds more like the Mark IIC+ mode with the power section set to triode. Whereas Extreme mode sounds way better than either.. I guess I need to use Mesa JJ tubes and the Ruby power tubes to notice.

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Well, I also have both amps and I have to disagree with that a bit. No, the extreme mode doesn´t nail the IV with the presence pushed in, but it´s a similar effect. That "unleashing of the Power section" that the manual talks about. Makes the amp punchierand much bolder. I feel this is very similar between the amps. However, they are voiced a bit different from each other, I feel that the Extreme mode is more modern voiced and a bit harsher and stiffer. I do prefer the IV with the presence pushed in to the Extreme mode. Sounds a bit sweeter to me. When I use my Mark IV, I always push the presence in. One of my all time favourite sounds.

I do agree to a certain degree about your comments about the other modes. With the presence pulled and in triode, the IV is pretty similar to the IIC+ mode, but with a fatter low end and slighly rolled off highs. In the Mark IV manual this is stated as the settings for duplicating the IIC+, triode, harmonics and presence pulled. So it makes sense that the modes should be somewhat similar.

The Mark IV mode on the V is closer (at least to my ears) to the Mid Gain setting and the presence knob pulled on the IV, however it´s not exactly the same. But both have that fat liquid vibe to them. The IV mode is the only lead ch mode on the V that I feel is superior to the Mark IV versions.

My findings, your ears and amps might differ:

IIC+= presence pulled on the IV
IV= presence pulled and Mid Gain activated on the IV
Extreme=presence pushed on the IV

And again... No, the don´t sound the same, but to my ear, they do seem to lean towards those voicings.

Feel free to agree or disagree....But I´m right :wink:

Not really sure I want to hijack this post into a debate about the Mark V vs the Mark IV. They are both great amps, it matters not if they sound the same or not. To me they differ in some degree that adds value since I have both. The gain structure of the Mark IV is a bit different than the Mark V. Just in comparing the Lead channel of the Mark IV to the Extreme of the Mark V: I cannot replicate the similar tone or gain character in both amps. They are close but still quite different. I could argue that the RA100 with the right tubes and in the Hi gain channel can compete quite easily but still different in terms of gain structure since it uses a old school CLASS A/B power section (and using EL34's).

If you have both IV and V , enjoy! If you really want to be impressed with both try running them as a stereo set up. One will lag slightly but will still be close in phase with each other just enough to create an ambience effect. Speaker load also contributes to the phase variance due to difference in reactance of the voice coils and response time differences.