Output questions

How does the output volume affect the tubes? I've read the manual but it doesn't really explain much about the output. My question is probably very noobish I'm sure but please bare with me.

If you engage the loop(even without effects), are you able to push the tubes more by setting the channel masters higher and then lowering the output volume? Or are you then lowering the heat on the tubes as you would if you lower the channel masters?

I've also heard there's a second gain stage involved with the loop. Whatever that means. Does that mean I get a different sound? Not as pure?

Is it even recommended using the output when not using any effects?

Thanks!

Are you talking about the preamp tubes, or the power amp tubes? You're not going to push the power section if the volume is low no matter how you get there. Turning up the channel masters while keeping the overall master down will push the preamp section and the circuit in the loop a bit harder, but you're still not pushing the power section.

If you do actually push the power section, chances are good that your ears will start bleeding before the power tubes get hurt. :wink:

Ok I see. I thought you could maybe get more saturation by driving the channel masters harder and keeping the output master lower. Guess I was wrong.

I guess the only reason to use the output master is to turn up all three channels together without having to adjust all three, one by one?

hendrik84 said:

Ok I see. I thought you could maybe get more saturation by driving the channel masters harder and keeping the output master lower. Guess I was wrong.

I guess the only reason to use the output master is to turn up all three channels together without having to adjust all three, one by one?

Click to expand...

Channel volumes are used to balance out the volumes between each channel. Once you have them all balanced you adjust the actual volume with the output master.

The only way to drive power tubes harder is to give them more signal (more volume). And unless you have an attenuator that is feckin loud.

Personally i dont think there is any need to achieve power tube distortion on a boogie. Especially a Mark V. Lower the power setting to 10 watts (class A) if you really wanna achieve power tube distortion.

Old Marshalls and Fenders needed to be pushed hard because they didn't have cascaded high gain pre-amps.

hendrik84 said:

Ok I see. I thought you could maybe get more saturation by driving the channel masters harder and keeping the output master lower. Guess I was wrong.

I guess the only reason to use the output master is to turn up all three channels together without having to adjust all three, one by one?

Click to expand...

The channel master is located after the preamp and before the effects loop in the signal path. Running them excessively high will cause you to overdrive the effects loop and potentially any effects plugged into the effects loop.

I generally run channel 3's master around 9:00 and adjust the other two channels to balance channel 3. I run the master output between 10:00 and 1:00.

Ok cool

"Personally i dont think there is any need to achieve power tube distortion on a boogie. Especially a Mark V. Lower the power setting to 10 watts (class A) if you really wanna achieve power tube distortion.

Old Marshalls and Fenders needed to be pushed hard because they didn't have cascaded high gain pre-amps."

That's good to hear. I guess that's what I was wondering. I'm still stuck in the mindset that you have to turn up tube amps really high to get good tone...guess technology has gotten better since jcm 800

I'm starting to lust for a Mark V now.

Think I'll pull out the credit card and just hide the V from the wife the first few weeks..

hendrik84 said:

I'm still stuck in the mindset that you have to turn up tube amps really high to get good tone...guess technology has gotten better since jcm 800

Click to expand...

Boogies are a completely different design than the Marshalls are. Most people associate the Marshall sound with a combination of preamp and power amp crunch, but Boogies get their sound primarily from preamp gain. Not "better" technology, just a different approach. The Mark V sounds great at levels lower than normal television volume, and it sounds equally good (though slightly different) when you crank it up. I bought my Mark V when I still lived in an apartment, and my neighbors never even knew it was there.

hendrik84 said:

Ok cool

"Personally i dont think there is any need to achieve power tube distortion on a boogie. Especially a Mark V. Lower the power setting to 10 watts (class A) if you really wanna achieve power tube distortion.

Old Marshalls and Fenders needed to be pushed hard because they didn't have cascaded high gain pre-amps."

That's good to hear. I guess that's what I was wondering. I'm still stuck in the mindset that you have to turn up tube amps really high to get good tone...guess technology has gotten better since jcm 800

I'm starting to lust for a Mark V now.

Think I'll pull out the credit card and just hide the V from the wife the first few weeks..

Click to expand...

Its good to get the power tubes working harder yes. But alot of tonal goodness comes from speaker movement. When you push the volume up the speakers get moving and really thicken up the sound. Thats my take on it anyway..

Personally i dont think you would like to hear power amp breakup when running high pre-amp gain.. It doesnt sound good to my ears. Its like putting a distortion pedal in front of the overdrive channel. Yuck.

And that is the reason high gain amps are usually high wattage. For power amp headroom.

Also if you start overdriving the power amp your FX in the loop get distorted. Kinda negates even having a loop when its run like that.

If you get the Mark try this out. Try Channel 3 Extreme mode on 10 watt mode and crank it vs 90 watt mode.