Who uses a V30 in their combo?

1. Who uses a V30 in their Mark V combo?

2. Do you use the 90 watt modes?

Lots of conflicting info out there. You can order your combo from Mesa in this configuration, but when I contacted them about it they said the 90 watt mode was unusable with a V30 and would be considered abuse and not covered under warranty. And yet, I've heard from some retailers and other users that this isn't a problem.

I'd love to put a V30 in it but not if I have to abandon the 90 watt modes.

You can do it but you can't crank the volume, and if you did Mesa wouldn't cover it under warranty.

Most people will never play it that loud.

The V30 is rated at 60W, I think...someone's gonna have to check me on that...
I'm not an expert, but I think if you cranked it in 45W mode, you run the risk of damaging it as well. The answer is to run the C90 in the combo and a V30 in an extension cab!

Disclaimer: I'm just saying that 'cause that's what I've been doing lately and it's sounding sweet to me. :lol:

The V30 is supposedly closer to 70 watts. Mesa does ship the combo with the V30 in it, and has told me that there's not problem with running it in the combo at 45 watts. I'm just asking if anyone else here has that configuraiton and if they've used the 90 watt mode. Can't tell what wattage the guy from Haggerty's Music is running it with in his video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lJYmOKC4h0

I've done it, you just can't crank it, and if you do blow the speaker Mesa won't cover it.

screamingdaisy said:

I've done it, you just can't crank it, and if you do blow the speaker Mesa won't cover it.

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Cool, thanks. So...define "crank"? Right now with the C90, channel volumes are at 11:00 and master around the same.

Karl Houseknecht said:

Cool, thanks. So...define "crank"? Right now with the C90, channel volumes are at 11:00 and master around the same.

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Turn the volume up until you find the point where it stops getting louder and starts getting more compressed. That's cranked. As you reduce power there's a significant drop off in power output. If you back the volume to what you think is around half as loud you might only be putting out 10w, but you'll still be getting the wider frequency response of 90w mode.

I can't really get any more specific. Unless you have the ability to actually measure the power output you'll just have accept the risk and play it by ear. If it sounds good its probably safe... If it starts to sound gritty, harsh or strained you're probably pushing the speaker to hard, which can be hard to notice if you're playing with a band since they'll bury a lot of the details so I recommend figuring out your limits at home.

I have an extension cab. The way I do it is I'll use a single speaker if I'm going to stay at moderate volumes and I bring the second speaker if I think things might get loud. It's my insurance policy.

Thanks for that info. I typically don't go very loud with it right now because it's mic'd up and I monitor through a wedge.

Wish I could get some info from Haggerty's on the reliability of this setup and how they run it. They claim to have sold dozens of them like this without problem, but are they cautioning them to run 45 watt mode?

Karl Houseknecht said:

Wish I could get some info from Haggerty's on the reliability of this setup and how they run it. They claim to have sold dozens of them like this without problem, but are they cautioning them to run 45 watt mode?

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Don used to frequent the forum and if you do a search I'm pretty sure he says pretty much the same thing I'm saying.

The catch is liability. If they tell you it's ok to use 90w and you smoke the speaker they're liable for the damages. If they tell you not to use 90w and you do so anyway they're not liable if you smoke your speaker. Telling you its ok to use 90w mode but you need to use your judgement is a big liability grey zone that any lawyer would advise a businessman to avoid.

Know what I'm sayin'?

Yeah, that makes sense. The posts I've seen from Don on this issue both here and on his video do not mention anything about the wattage he or his customers are running at. All he's said is that Mesa supports and ships that configuration, and fully warrantees it. That warranty claim is in direct conflict with what I've learned from Mesa when I contacted them directly.

So I called up Haggerty's Music to talk to Don directly about this. Turns out he no longer works there, which might be why my email went unanswered. I did speak to someone who had notes from Don about this very question, and the answer was that you couldn't run it in the 90 watt mode, only 45 or below. And that makes perfect sense and is in alignment with what Mesa told me.

Further update, and different news. Called up Warehouse Speakers to look for something of higher wattage but with a V30 vibe. The fellow I spoke with said that as long as I keep the volume at a reasonable level and don't crank it, I should be fine in the 90 watt range because:

1. The amp won't be putting out a full 90 watts unless cranked.
2. The Mesa C90 is really a Celestion Classic Lead 80. Rated 80 watts. I should have known this when I ordered one last because it said CL-80 right on it and Mesa provided a "Black Shadow" sticker to cover it up.
3. The V30 is rated conservatively at 60 watts. More like 70.

So he recommended a Veteran 30 to me and said it would be slightly darker on the top end compared to Mesa's made in England V30's. At $70, I can't go wrong with this so I might give it a shot. What's to lose if I blow a $70 speaker? I'll still have a C90 just in case. I normally run the clean channel on 45 anyway because I like a bit of grit. I mic the amp and monitor through a wedge, so loud isn't an object for me.

I would do it and run it at 90 watts. For the amp to be at fill tilt would never happen at the volumes you would need if playing out it if its mic'd. For it to hit 7o watts and blow the speaker you would need to have the volume up around 2-3 o'clock and that would be crazy loud.

I'm going to measure the output power at my typical gig volumes and see what I come up with. If it's less than 60 watts then I'll go through with it.

Okay, so I'm an obsessive compulsive scientist type and I need hard facts or measurement. I decided to measure the power output of the amp via a couple of different methods.

Method one:

1. Attach a multimeter across the speaker terminals, set to AC volts.
2. Take note of the peak voltage on the meter as I play at my desired volume.
3. Convert to watts by watts = volts^2 / ohms

By this method, I'm putting out about 21 watts peak on any given channel at the volumes I'm playing. Interesting.

Method two:

1. Take amp to amp tech, who tells me that my previous method is okay, but his method is more accurate.
2. Hook up to resistive 8 ohm load, bypassing speaker.
3. Tone generator at 1KHz into front of amp.
4. Adjust volume and gain on clean channel to a non-distorted signal. i.e. - sine wave, non-clipped
5. Measure voltage on oscilloscope, x ~0.7

This method shows the amp putting out 60 watts RMS, non clipped.

So, I ask the amp tech....what does this RMS method tell me about whether I can run a V30 in the amp safely on the 90 watt settings? His answer? "It sounds great using the C90, I wouldn't change a thing." :roll: Which isn't what I asked him, of course. I left there just shaking my head a bit and being thankful he didn't charge me for that advice.

So I got home and messed with the amp more. Got settings that I really, really liked on each channel. I mean loved. I couldn't stop playing. Then decided to hook it up into my 212 vertical recto slant with V30's, bypassing the internal speaker. It was...just okay. Tweaked more, realizing the that C90 is going to sound different, as is the open back cab, and that I need to tweak for the V30. Still not liking it as much. What gives? I like my 212 recto cab just fine...more than fine, in fact, with my Express+ 5:50. Love it with that amp.

So I took off my scientist hat and put on my musician hat and plugged the C90 back in. Played for almost an hour, just digging the crap out of the tones I got.

You know what? This whole investigation is pretty much for naught. I ended up preferring the C90 in the open back light years over the V30 in the closed. And I was so sure I'd love the V30 like I do with my other amp. And I don't.

The amp tech was right. The amp sounds great with the stock speaker, don't change a thing. So, anyway, the technical analysis above might point to the fact that it's perfectly okay to run the combo with a V30. But the musical analysis, at least for me, says Mesa put that C90 in there for a reason. Don't change a thing.

Maybe you can use your Mark V 90W setting by connecting your V30 70W 8 ohm speaker onto the 4 ohm tap. It reduces the output a little bit.
Will that be enough for your purpose? I don't know. It also lowers the treble and presence slightly and compresses it a little bit.

As an example, talking about older Marks, Mike Bendinelli says that running a combo (with an 8 ohm speaker) in 100 watt with the speaker in the 8 ohm tap is similar to running it in 60 watt with the same speaker in the 4 ohm tap.

Running the amp in 100 watt with the 8 ohm speaker in the 4 ohm tap, you will have a darker and smoother sound. According to Mike, this is the way to mimic a Simul-Class power section when using a 100/60 watt amp.

Don't hold me liable!

Very interesting stuff.

But after all my deliberating I've decided I'm just keeping the C90 in there and running with it. There really are some great tones and that speaker seems to be tailored for the combo.

DONT DO IT, from my experience the C90 blew in one year, the V30 blew in 3 months, and sorry but from my experience its BullS that this speaker aint gonna blow, sonner or later it will blow i didn't cranked my amp that much and i play like 80% clean tweed mode, im now using the EV 200W , best decision i ever made, better for everything and guess what that speaker its still working.

the V30 sure sounds great, the C90 of course sounded awesome too, very different speakers, but EV... thats a speaker, it actually turned my amp in a great beast,

just my opinion,