In the market for an attenuator...need help, Mark V

Hey folks!

I love the 90W sound thickness I get out of about any channels on the Mark V combo but then it's unbearable in my little studio at any decent volume level....so time for an attenuator.

But then the more I read the more confused I get. I had the Weber Mass III in mind then I read and get comments about how the THD Hot Plate is probably better (and the Mass doesn't have much details about it anywhere and even Weber themselves are short on details when you ask them).

Then I read the THD should be selected at twice the impedance you intend to use it to play it safe (read here: http://marshallvintagemodern.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2825, post #13 by ClubandCountry, very interesting read btw).

Now where I get confused is... the Mark V has all those impedance matching sockets in the back (2x4omhs and 2x8ohms).

I found a used 4ohms Hot Plate in my neighborhoods. If I get it right, I'd use a single 8ohms output from the Mark V to hook the 4ohms Hot Plate to 'play it safe' ?

Am I on the right track or am I thinking it backwards?

Anybody using a Hot Plate on their Mark V can comment ?

I don't have experience with attenuators but I think you are indeed thinking it backwards. You should be looking at an 16ohm HotPlate if "double the load" is the rule.

Using the 8ohm output into the 8ohm Hot Plate is fine I've done it for years and never had an issue.

I also did the 8ohm output into a 16ohm Hot Plate. It also worked fine.

That said, I think you'll find that using an attenuator on the Mark V is a waste of money. The problem with an attenuator is that they attenuate the power before the speakers, so regardless of how hard you're pushing your amp you speakers wind up being under driven. As an example, power up your Mark V and turn the master volume down to 8:00. Hear the wimpy sound? Your speakers will sound like that regardless of whether you're attenuated or not.

I rarely get any volume (channel or master) above 9'o'clock already so I want an attenuator to push the amp at least a little harder.

You say there won't be any gain to be had even in pushing the tubes harder?

screamingdaisy said:

Using the 8ohm output into the 8ohm Hot Plate is fine I've done it for years and never had an issue.

I also did the 8ohm output into a 16ohm Hot Plate. It also worked fine.

That said, I think you'll find that using an attenuator on the Mark V is a waste of money. The problem with an attenuator is that they attenuate the power before the speakers, so regardless of how hard you're pushing your amp you speakers wind up being under driven. As an example, power up your Mark V and turn the master volume down to 8:00. Hear the wimpy sound? Your speakers will sound like that regardless of whether you're attenuated or not.

Click to expand...

So basically, if I grab the 4ohm THD HP I'd want to run it out of one of the 4ohms speaker output on the Mark V, right?

screamingdaisy said:

As an example, power up your Mark V and turn the master volume down to 8:00. Hear the wimpy sound? Your speakers will sound like that regardless of whether you're attenuated or not.

Click to expand...

This is true. And, to be honest, the V does not need an attenuator. All distortion comes from the preamp and there is not much powertube saturation that is added at high volume.

Dreamert said:

I rarely get any volume (channel or master) above 9'o'clock already so I want an attenuator to push the amp at least a little harder.

You say there won't be any gain to be had even in pushing the tubes harder?

Click to expand...

I won't say there's nothing to be gained from pushing the amp harder into an attenuator... just that it isn't likely to actually fix your issue in the manner I think you're hoping for.

Attenuators generally work better when you're looking to shave a few dB off a non-master volume amp, such as when you need to tame a raging 100w Plexi to levels that work on a medium sized stage. Where attenuators don't tend to fair so well is when you want to attenuate any amp down to don't piss off the neighbour home levels. At that stage the power amp just adds compression, which is then squashed down to levels that fail to drive the speakers properly... so you end up with squashed wimpy tone instead of simply wimpy tone.

Me personally, I find the Variac mode in conjunction with lower master volume settings works really well for low volume playing. I much prefer it to any attenuated amp that I've used in the past.

screamingdaisy said:

Dreamert said:

I rarely get any volume (channel or master) above 9'o'clock already so I want an attenuator to push the amp at least a little harder.

You say there won't be any gain to be had even in pushing the tubes harder?

Click to expand...

I won't say there's nothing to be gained from pushing the amp harder into an attenuator... just that it isn't likely to actually fix your issue in the manner I think you're hoping for.

Attenuators generally work better when you're looking to shave a few dB off a non-master volume amp, such as when you need to tame a raging 100w Plexi to levels that work on a medium sized stage. Where attenuators don't tend to fair so well is when you want to attenuate any amp down to don't piss off the neighbour home levels. At that stage the power amp just adds compression, which is then squashed down to levels that fail to drive the speakers properly... so you end up with squashed wimpy tone instead of simply wimpy tone.

Me personally, I find the Variac mode in conjunction with lower master volume settings works really well for low volume playing. I much prefer it to any attenuated amp that I've used in the past.

Click to expand...

+1

MusicManJP6 said:

screamingdaisy said:

As an example, power up your Mark V and turn the master volume down to 8:00. Hear the wimpy sound? Your speakers will sound like that regardless of whether you're attenuated or not.

Click to expand...

This is true. And, to be honest, the V does not need an attenuator. All distortion comes from the preamp and there is not much powertube saturation that is added at high volume.

Click to expand...

I kinda like the touch sensitive feeling that I seem to only get when driving the power section. For me, the attenuator is great in practice / live else I'd be too loud to get that response... I use 45/10W usually.
But it's true that the attenuator cannot really be used to bring down 90W/45W to bedroom levels.

I already had a Hot Plate when I bought my Mark V, and found that it really isn't necessary with this amp. Running the channel masters higher, and using the loop send level as an additional volume control (if you wish to) can get you some great sounds at television-viewing volumes, even in 90W mode.

I have a Weber MASS that works really well, but I haven't used it with the Mark V yet. I have, however, used it with my DC-5 for years and it has done a good job.

Why don't you try using the Mark V in 10 watt mode? You can get some pretty good sounds from it, and it's pretty manageable.

One thing to consider: no amp is going to do it all (but it seems that the Mark V is close), so if you want a bedroom amp, buy a nice low wattage amp for that purpose. I have a little 8 watter that I use with a Vox 1x12 Night Train cab. A little boxy (small cab), but suits my needs.

And every time I get a chance, I crank that MKV up, shake the house, and enjoy every minute of it.

I prefer the sound of the V using the master volume vs my hotplate. I do use the hotplate as a load box for silent recording.

Here is an article I saw on 6L6 vs EL34, but also talks about power amp saturation.... the post also mentions the mark V as being an amp that can benefit from pushing the power section for some applications.

http://mesaboogie.com/news/2010/08/6l6-vs-el-34-feel-the-power-of-your-amps-power-section/