The search for tone may be over.

Classics and Specials

Moderators: Guitarzan, Grandor, ned, Platypus

nemesys
Mark III
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:08 am

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by nemesys » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:04 am

Another plug for the California here. I just got mine and installed them on Saturday in time for rehearsal yesterday. As pine said, they are everything you said they are, BobL. Nice warm tone, cleans are beautiful, and as pine noticed, less gain is necessary than with the stock speakers. I have a friend's pair of old JBLs to compare with, and I noticed that the Webers have slightly less midrange, and that upper-end 'tonk' that JBLs are known for isn't as pronounced (I like that quality of JBLs, but I like the relative subtlety of the Webers better -- that sound doesn't always work for everything). Volume seems more manageable with the Webers than with the C90s, too. I play a '52 RI Telecaster, and the LSC sounds absolutely perfect with it now. In short, they're staying.

Thanks, BobL, for posting this thread and letting us take advantage of all your hard work. :mrgreen:

User avatar
zm4
Mark I
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:47 pm
Location: IL. U.S.A.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by zm4 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:38 pm

Hi, Im new to this forum and just bought a LSS head and cab. I have been using a 64' Bandmaster that I put a set of altec 417-H's in and the result was austounding. Very punchy and yet bright, much more full sounding than the stock speakers. From what Im told the weber califorias are alot like or even based on the 417-H and JBL. Is that true? What my question is can you elaborate on the EV SRO in the lonestar? At 103 db it is a very efficent speaker is that good or bad in a lower wattage amp? I have two factory SRO's and would like to use one with the LSS, If the stock one is lacking.
Zack
Mesa Lone Star Special w/ 2-1x12 LS cabs , Express 5:25 w/ Roadster 1x12 cab and Soldano SLO w/ 2x12 cab
TC G system, Ts-9 and RMC3
Gibson Les Paul Standard, Fender US Custom

God Bless the USA

ripit007
Mark II
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:45 pm

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by ripit007 » Mon May 24, 2010 2:00 pm

Awesome thread!! Im gonna revisit this thread with a question I didnt see the answer to.

How does the Weber California sound on the Drive channel (Channel 2 with drive engaged). I spoke with the guy from Weber today and he said If your using any type of overdrive, including the amps own overdrive, then this speaker wouldnt be your choice, rather the Chicago would be a better choice. He likened an over driven California to putting an overdrive pedal thru a PA system. Please tell me your experience. Thanks.
Mark IV B
Lonestar Classic 1x12 w/ Reeder Mod #1
Rectifier 2x12 Cab
Fender Blues Jr. w/ BillM Mods
3 Custom Strats
PRS McCarty
PRS Custom 24
Charvel Model 6 w/ Steve's Special and Cruisers
Bulldog Les Paul Project

Heritage Softail
Mark IV
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:51 am
Location: Atlanta Ga

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by Heritage Softail » Mon May 24, 2010 7:06 pm

BobL wrote:
Once again though, please let me know how you feel about the tone of the JBL or Weber California. I think it important to know if your happy, but more important to know if the speaker didn't work out, and for what reasons.

Have fun and change your strings often,

Bob L.
Bob,

Great speaker tone thread. I am hunting high and low for a great, no excellent speaker for an SLO. Late 80's thru 90's rock/metal is the tone. The enclosure I think would be best is a pair of 12 Thieles made by a private party to original Thiele specs. I was thinking of how it would be great to carry only two 1x12 cabs for a change. Largest venue will be the size of a school auditoruim - 500 seats. Smallest will be a 50 seat bar. Fairly stout PA available. Will run mono most of the time. Once in a while will go stereo with one 100W head per cab. Will rotate MKV/SLO/Knucklehead Tre heads.

Great effects rundown as well. Curious, what are your favorite guitars? Have you heard or played any Heritage LP's or 335 types?
Mesa MK IIC, DSL100, Dr Z Maz 38 NR, Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet purple mod, 5153, Rectoverb S2

JP6, LP, SG, Anderson Pro-Am, Suhr, PRS, Strat, Tele, assorted victims of pentatonic hacking.

Gone - MKV, Single Rectifier, Rivera K-Tre

18 year chip.

axman53
Mark II
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:48 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by axman53 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:36 pm

Hey, BobL, or anyone, any comment as to how or if your findings relate to the LSS? I am wanting to replace the original speaker in mine and so far the best recommendations I've had all point to the Celestion Gold. I had a Weber Blue Dog ceramic in my old Peavey Classic 30 and it was wonderful. Now Weber has the California AND the Chicago. So it's getting harder to make a decision. I do like great clean tones, I use the 5W setting almost exclusively, use pedals to push channel 2 toward various distorted tones and mic the amp, so I don't think I'm getting any distortion from the speaker. Thanks for any observations.
axman53
Carvin DC135, PRS MIRA, American Standard Tele
MESA LSS

Telecastermaster
Bottle Rocket
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by Telecastermaster » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:20 pm

BobL,

Any chance you have some sound clips of your setup? I would love to hear that Weber California in it... Very curious.


Also, thanks for posting this, tons of great info!
LSC Version 1 Head and matching 2x12 Cab (Reader#1 modded)
Egnater Tweaker 1x12 combo
Parts Telecaster (walnut top, ash body, bocote neck, SD lil 59' bridge pup, SD Seth Lover neck pup)
07' PRS 245 Artist
97' Lonestar Strat

Guizan
Bottle Rocket
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:44 am

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by Guizan » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:32 am

Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm curious if anyone else has tried the California or blue dog in their LSC.

I'm going to convert my 2x12 into a head and a vertical open back cab and am having a tough time choosing a speaker. I'm worried the California is going to be a little bright for me... As I like to run the amp at the edge of breakup. The blue dog is grabbing me more than the California.

But I've also considered things like the celestion v type, scumback m75s, and a couple Alnico flavors.

Anyone else with input on speaker changes with their LSC?

Pongo
Mark I
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:53 pm

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by Pongo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:26 pm

Guizan wrote:Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm curious if anyone else has tried the California or blue dog in their LSC.

I'm going to convert my 2x12 into a head and a vertical open back cab and am having a tough time choosing a speaker. I'm worried the California is going to be a little bright for me... As I like to run the amp at the edge of breakup. The blue dog is grabbing me more than the California.

But I've also considered things like the celestion v type, scumback m75s, and a couple Alnico flavors.

Anyone else with input on speaker changes with their LSC?
I have not tried the California or blue dog. However, I've run my LSC through Greenbacks, Creambacks, Alnico Cream, V-Types, A-Types, Vintage 30s, Greenbacks, Cannabis Rex, various Jensens, and liked 'em all better than the stock Black Shadow (which honestly didn't sound bad. In other words, I have a hard time imagining you running it through a decent speaker and it not sounding good (just be sure to check your power rating ;-) )

I currently have two cabs that I couldn't be happier with:

2x12" open back with H-75 Creamback/Alnico Cream
4x12" closed back with a mix of M-65/H-75 Creambacks

User avatar
plan-x
Single Recto
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:20 pm
Location: CA, Mojave desert

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by plan-x » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:27 am

The Blue Dog is ok. I mix the dog with the C-90 for a great blend.
Recto-Verb 25 head
Lonestar Classic (LSC) 2x12
.
Plan-x
https://myspace.com/wichmanbrewster/music/songs

Guizan
Bottle Rocket
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:44 am

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by Guizan » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:29 pm

Pongo wrote:
Guizan wrote:Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm curious if anyone else has tried the California or blue dog in their LSC.

I'm going to convert my 2x12 into a head and a vertical open back cab and am having a tough time choosing a speaker. I'm worried the California is going to be a little bright for me... As I like to run the amp at the edge of breakup. The blue dog is grabbing me more than the California.

But I've also considered things like the celestion v type, scumback m75s, and a couple Alnico flavors.

Anyone else with input on speaker changes with their LSC?
I have not tried the California or blue dog. However, I've run my LSC through Greenbacks, Creambacks, Alnico Cream, V-Types, A-Types, Vintage 30s, Greenbacks, Cannabis Rex, various Jensens, and liked 'em all better than the stock Black Shadow (which honestly didn't sound bad. In other words, I have a hard time imagining you running it through a decent speaker and it not sounding good (just be sure to check your power rating ;-) )

I currently have two cabs that I couldn't be happier with:

2x12" open back with H-75 Creamback/Alnico Cream
4x12" closed back with a mix of M-65/H-75 Creambacks
Thanks for the info! That's quite the collection you have.

I recently ran it into an open back 1x12 with a V-type, and definitely think it's an improvement. I'm not sure if it's the cabinet it's self or the speaker that's making the bigger difference, however.

I also tried it through a Marshall 4x12 with two m65 creambacks and 2 gt75s and this was even better. It had a much tighter bass response and great mids.

My plan is to get a 2x12 and try it with some scumbacks... A mix of m65/j75.

123thefirst
Mark III
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:37 am

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by 123thefirst » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:30 am

Yes! The search for tone may be over. At least we've come very close to perfection...

I've lived with a Road King II for about 10 years. Truth be known, most of the time I actually have used a Bogner Alchemist instead for practicing and working out things. The Road King has one of the best clean channels anywhere, especially in Tweed mode. The Lonestar's clean is similar but not quite the same. I think it is basically the Fat mode of the Road King when reverb is switched to classic. However, the Lonestar's 10 watt class A single ended power mode and option for 6V6 tubes adds new wonderful possibilities for clean.

Where the Lonestar really comes to life, in my experience, is channel 2 especially with drive on. That channel is so much fuller in tone and more articulate than any other gain amp I've used. I had stopped using channel 3 and 4 of the Road King since it gives only that "Recto" type of tone, not an articulate, dynamically responsive rich palette I've felt I need when guitars are forefront in the mix and not purely rhythmic in nature.

But Lonestar channel 2 does seem to need some adjustments. I will change the coupling capacitor for the drive section to a 1200 pF ceramic disc version. I'll also change the cathode capacitor on the following stage to a radical .39 uF variety. I figure that will cut the bass and lower mids about 6 dB early in the circuit. The result of both changes should be a much better tone balance, a much reduced murkiness and ever more pronounced articulation. It that is successful I will make some extensive modifications to Road King's channel 3 and 4 to give them much of the same tonal magic.

Speakers: yes, I sold or gave away the factory Celestions in both amps and now use a pair of M Creambacks or JBL D120's.

Guizan
Bottle Rocket
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:44 am

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by Guizan » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:13 am

Let us know how those mods turn out 123!

I've loaded up the 1x12 now with an A type and THAT is by far the best speaker I've heard with this amp. I'm actually shocked that a cheap(er) speaker is this good. I have a scumback j75 that will be here today. I honestly can't imagine how it could be better than the A-type, but we'll see.

123thefirst
Mark III
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:37 am

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by 123thefirst » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:22 am

Will do. I'll look into more information about the A-type. The first time I used the Lonestar in practice I plugged the speaker out into a Celestion 70/80 in the room's Blackstar HT40 and was really surprised how good the clean tone was. It was very, very close to a Fender Super Reverb or Twin with a kind of spongy compressed feel that the older Fender amps have. Sounded great even with heavy gain from the drive channel. I'm not necessarily recommending that speaker but maybe there is great synergy between it and the Lonestar.

123thefirst
Mark III
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:37 am

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Post by 123thefirst » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:36 am

I made a lot of circuitry changes this weekend. It was difficult work because many of the components are tightly packed together and because resistors and capacitors that are soldered to the ground plane on the underside of the board just about refuse to come unsoldered. I made several changes to the drive stage. The cathode bypass capacitor went from 15uF to .39uF as I planned as well as the .005uF to .0012uF changes. I also bypassed the 1M drive pot with a 330pF/47K capacitor resistor pair. That was done to add just a bit more upper mids and highs when the drive knob is lowered.

I also made a bunch of changes to the non-drive circuit to essentially put it into Road King II territory which is noticably brighter and zestier than the Lonestar circuit. Channel 1 is now incredible in tone, dynamics and feel - perfect even. I could turn the treble all the way down and the bass all the way up and get a beautiful fat, sweet tone with no weakness. Or turn the bass all the way down with the treble and presence high and get a sizzling, searing sound. Everything was so much more bouncy and full and the tone controls have enormous power. The gain seemed much more effective so that at higher settings it sounds like channel 2 used to with the drive up high (but with a whole lot more presence and sizzle).

The drive changes made strong improvements too. Much more varied sounds are now possible. But still, sizzling highs and upper mids just didn't come through nearly as much as I wanted. There is apparently something in that drive stage that absolutely kills upper mids and highs. Or at least smears them so that it feels like you're in the clouds and not presented with something real and clear. I'll investigate more how to fix that.

As amazing as the amp sounds now a new problem was introduced. When I turn the mids and gain up in either channel I get intermittent scratchy noise and whistling. I'm thinking that something is going microphonic - could be the preamp tubes or maybe the bypass capacitor resistor pairs I added that are physically bound and therefore resonating together. Strangely enough, when I set the power to Tweed mode this disappears. So investigation here is needed. The plus side is that now, Tweed power, even with the tube rectifier, sounds great whereas it sounded way too weak before these changes.

Post Reply