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Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:25 pm
by shawnpurcell
Hey There,

Silly question, but what size are the screws that are used to mount the speakers in the lonestar? I wasn't sure if they are metric or American sizes???

Thanks,

Shawn Purcell
www.shawnpurcell.com
www.myspace.com/shawnpurcell

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:35 pm
by plan-x
Most likely American.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:09 pm
by abecon5
long post is long.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:02 pm
by pmtrub
long and informative. I have a similar pedal setup, so it gave me a few ideas.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:27 pm
by LSCMan
no concern for putting the 80 watt Cali in the 100 watt Lonestar?

I just blew a 90 watt Black Shadow...

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:22 am
by nemesys
I just played my LSC through a friend's old 60's Fender 2x12 with JBLs this past weekend. That's the sound -- much cleaner and deeper than the stock Celestions, which sound comparatively very compressed. Time to order a pair of Californias...

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
by pine
Well, I bit the bullet and put the Weber Cali 12, (80 watts, 8 ohms, aluminum dustcap) in my LSC, and it's everything BobL has said it was. I had a Jensen C12K in there and liked it, but the Weber, after a little dialing, blew it away. I found that I didn't need as much gain with the Weber (about 12:00 on the clean channel) to get a great tone. I'm using the EL84/6V6 mixture, and haven't tried it with 6L6s yet, which I think will give me slightly more clean headroom, but the Weber is definitely staying in there. Thanks BobL.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:13 am
by BobL
Well it's been a while since my last post so I'll bring you up to date. First, I'm using the Weber California in one Lonestar and a JBL D120F (Orange is the color, which by the way makes no difference) in the other Lonestar. After listening to them side by side for over 2 months I can honestly state that the difference is slightly more mid range in the JBL. Almost to the point where it is not noticible, but again, if you hear them night after night you can hear the difference.

I changed the order of my effects from what I posted above. I now have the BB Preamp AFTER the RC boost. What I have now is full bodied and very chimey clean tones and grind with a distorted sound very similar to Gary Moore, Johnny Winter, etc.

As for the effects loop I would find a revebr that works in front of the amp.

Destroying an 80 speaker takes some massive volume. The JBL D120 or Weber clone require lower input to produce a higher output. With 101db or better sensitivity vs, say 96-98db sensitivity, the actual gain in performance is equal to doubling the output of the amplifier which is what it takes to acheive an additional 3db from any speaker, sound system or guitar amp.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:08 am
by Pageburst
Hi BobL

Thanks for the very infromative posts.

Anyway a couple of things. Do you think it would be a noticable sonic difference between the aluminum dome and the paper dome

Also have you heard anything with regards to the neo mag series. The neomag 12 is supposed to emulate the D120F very closely.

Thanks

BTW I have a Zendrive that is very natural sounding with my LSC and I'm thinking of getting a TIm as another flavor.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:58 am
by BobL
Pageburst wrote:Hi BobL

Thanks for the very infromative posts.

Anyway a couple of things. Do you think it would be a noticable sonic difference between the aluminum dome and the paper dome

Also have you heard anything with regards to the neo mag series. The neomag 12 is supposed to emulate the D120F very closely.

Thanks

BTW I have a Zendrive that is very natural sounding with my LSC and I'm thinking of getting a TIm as another flavor.
You've asked a good question concerning the aluminum dust cover. The aluminum dust cover introduced by Harvey Gerst of JBL serves more than a single purpose. It enhances the high end frequencies slightly, but also serves to help eliminate "cone cry" . Many people refer to cone cry as those ice pick high notes that slam into your head and sound really bad. Well that's one artifact, but cone cry is actually ghost tones and a rippling of the cone as it attempts to reproduce those tones which are harmonically out of sync with the sound being produced. An out of control speaker if you will. That's why the tones jump out at you. They don't belong there in the first place.

Another part of this speaker that reduces cone cry is of course the light doping of the edge. Combine that with a cone that's at least an inch (1") shallower, AND curved (Did you realize the cone is curved??) and you have the begginings of a D120.

I have used the Weber neo based D120 clone. I liked it but didn't like it. Although it nailed the D120 tone, like most neo based speakers it was a little to sterile. Not as warm and with less response to my pick. Over the years as ALNICO (pronounced AL NICK COE, because there's no knee in nickel), has become more expensive and ceramic has finally had all of the bugs worked out most manufacturers now fully understand the differences and can design a speaker using ceramic magnets that emulates an ALNICO design. Neo is still fairly new technology and those differences are not fully understood by many manufacturers. I'll hold off on neo until the jury comes in on neo designed speakers and the technology instrument speakers has matured. I think that will be in a couple of years.

Quick history. Dickie Dale did not help with the design of the D series speakers Gerst had already designed the speaker but widened the coil gap to eliminate scraping at very high volumes, the "F" in D120F denotes used in and purchased by Fender, not designed for Fender, there is no difference between the grey and the orange painted D120, and the Showman used a D130 15" speaker. All JBL's put into a Fender amp where done so by special order, including the D110 10" speakers used in the very collectable Super Reverb, a speaker/amp combo favored by SRV. The Gratefull Dead wall of sound is almost all JBL D120 and D130 speakers. Who would have thunk.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:42 pm
by pmtrub
Hey Bob, I'm looking at the weber site, and what impedance did you go with for california ceramics in a LSC?

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:41 pm
by BobL
8 ohms.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:56 am
by Pageburst
Wow thanks BobL. You are a well spring of knowledge truly. Thanks for sharing. I will have to try this Weber California speaker with the aluminum cap. I take it that the improvement you hear / feel over the blackshadow is not subtle.

Best
Stephen

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:26 am
by pmtrub
BobL wrote:8 ohms.
Thanks. I may be trying out a couple of these soon. Thanks for sharing all of your research.

Re: The search for tone may be over.

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:41 pm
by BobL
pine wrote:Well, I bit the bullet and put the Weber Cali 12, (80 watts, 8 ohms, aluminum dustcap) in my LSC, and it's everything BobL has said it was. I had a Jensen C12K in there and liked it, but the Weber, after a little dialing, blew it away. I found that I didn't need as much gain with the Weber (about 12:00 on the clean channel) to get a great tone. I'm using the EL84/6V6 mixture, and haven't tried it with 6L6s yet, which I think will give me slightly more clean headroom, but the Weber is definitely staying in there. Thanks BobL.

Has anyone else had the same experience as Pine?? I hope anyone who has followed this thread and purchased the Weber California is happy with the tone. If you are not I apologize for steering anyone in the wrong direction, as that is not my intent.

A slight topic swerve. If you want a real thrill you might try GT 6L6 GE's for power tubes. #'s 5-7 work very well and when used with a JBL or weber clone D120 (California ceramic 8ohm) they tend to add a very airy chimey 3 dimensional quality to the sound of the Lonestar. But just a word of caution, I have been through two (2) matched quad sets in less than 10 months. Both sets have had one (1) tube fail, in which case I pull and replace the entire set.

Once again though, please let me know how you feel about the tone of the JBL or Weber California. I think it important to know if your happy, but more important to know if the speaker didn't work out, and for what reasons.

Have fun and change your strings often,

Bob L.