New 5:25+ ... mixed feelings

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Pardo

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Hello, my first post. I picked up a new 5:25+ yesterday and only got to play it for about an hour or so. I got it to replace my trusty old Peavey Classic 30. I like the C30, but the 5:25 has more usable features (solo, 2 usable channels, power scaling etc).

While I love the features, the verdict is still out about the sound. I find it boxy (cardboardy, stiff, lifeless) without using the preset on the graphic eq. Engaging the preset livens things up. But I've always been a bit against scooping the mids. Sounds good for rhythm, but I feel that leads lose their voice. Not entirely sure thats the case here, I'll need to play with it more.

To be fair, I'm hoping this has to do with the speaker not being worked in. So I'll spend some time cranking this thing. However, I plugged the 5:25 into a cab loaded with V30's and it sounded somewhat "bloated" (to use a term from the manual). It wasn't spanky, more flubby and washed out.

My setting are pretty much:

Channel 1: Crunch (5 watts)
Channel 2: Burn (5 watts)

Tone knobs (both channels)
Gain: 6
Treble: 6
Mid: 4
Bass: 4
Master: 2

Maybe I'm just not opening it up enough. Again I need to play with it more.

I have a Stiletto Ace phase 2 that I'm absolutely in love with. At first I was iffy about the Stiletto, but after playing with it (eq, tubes) I got it sounding like I wanted. Which is rhythms like a shot gun an leads like a ray gun. I'm looking for a beefy, brownish rhythm and an expressive sustaining lead sound.

... All this to say: Has anyone else found the 5:25 stiff / boxy sounding? If so, how did you overcome it? I'm by no means giving up on the amp cause I think I can bend this little box to my will. Just looking for tips on how.

Thanks!
 
I'd be eager to hear other opinions, but to me, "boxy, stiff, cardboardy" means too much midrange.
Are you playing with a band? If so, beware scooping too much, you'll get buried in the mix.
 
Yes, the boxy comment is related to the mid range. If I boost the middle slider, it gets boxier to my ears.

I bought this to play in a pickup band in a jam space where I can't leave my head and cab set up. So yes, I'll be weary of scooping too much cause I'd like to be heard. I think the best thing I can do is just play with it on my own and see what I can pull out of it. Then eq to taste when I bring it into the band. I think you just gotta spend time with Mesas...
 
Hi,
Spend more time with it. A Boogie is a different animal than your old amp and will dial in very differently.
I do find you have to get the master volume up a little to get it to open up. So, you may need to find a sweet spot between the gain and MV on the second channel to get it to open up.

The first thing I did with my 5:25+ was install an MC-90 in place of the V30. That helped open the sound up right away. Personally, I don't think the V30 is well suited to the combo. To my ears it has a narrower, tighter nasaly feel. Just my ears, though.

Also, I had a Redplate around the house, and dialed in a great clean tone on that, then tried to emulate it on the Express. I ended up getting a really rich clean tone by matching as close as I could. Brent
 
Yes! Nasally is a great description! I was thinking like an AM radio, but nasally nails it.

I half dread swapping speakers cause you don't know until you buy and try. I do have an Eminance Red Hat laying around but hated it in my Classic 30 - can't remember why now. But yeah, before I try different speakers I'll try to work the existing V30 in. Also I haven't been alone in the house to crank it to any degree - can't wait!

Thanks for the tip, much appreciated!
 
You need to turn it up a bit, on 15W or 25W setting. Will make a difference with any speaker. I have tried several speaker cabs and speakers, my perception of the V30 changes as I rotate back to it. The tone controls have huge range, then there is the equalizer. So keep trying different settings/volumes with what you have and then try another speaker to see what you find.
 
I was able to play with it at low volumes last night. I was actually digging the nasally honk I get without the EQ engaged. I wouldn't want that to be my core sound, but still it was fun to mess with. I fully intend to crank it tonight. I'll be exploring the 15 and 25 watt modes and try to break in the speaker.

I can't imagine Mesa intends for the amp to sound like this for its lifetime, so I'm guessing breaking the speaker in will help. I fed it into my 4x12 with V30's again last night and the difference was pretty dramatic. So I guess there's my answer.

Other thoughts; There's way more gain on this thing than I figured it'd have. Once I get the power section cooking I'm pretty excited to hear this thing roar.
 
I agree, using the 15 or 25 watt setting will help a lot. The 5 watt setting chokes it down, and I abandoned it a while back. Also agree with the speaker change. The MC90 is great with this amp. Lots of chime, not honky at all. My V30 is for sale now. :+)

Al
 
Yep, playing at low volume is always going to bring out the mids.
Remember the "loudness" button on stereos?
That was actually a pre-set EQ button which boosted the highs and lows at low volume levels. Because low volume brings out the mids to the human ear, boosting highs and lows makes the resulting sound more "natural".
Boosting the treble and bass, by the way, is exactly the same thing as scooping the mids.
Using the 5 watt setting will result in even more clipping which is going to further flatten the EQ, rounding off the top end and cutting off the bass.
Which sounds, again, just like boosting the mids.
 
Absolutely use the 15 watt at least. At 5 you are compressing to the tone and on top of the already playing at lower volumes increases the mids thing. I find mine very open sounding especially compared to m Blues Jr. The pre-set is what I use for my Fenders, my Gibby's I use the sliders, mostly. And yes the tone knobs are different, remember the Treble really sets the stack and affects the Mid and Bass. This is not like my Fenders, you really have to play around with the tone settings. It deffinentially has taken over for my BJ, BDRI and DRRI.
 
Turn all knobs to 9:00 or so, reverb and contour all the way down, master roughly where you want it to end up. Then dial it in left to right. Gain first, then treble, then mids, then bass. A tip is to dial in treble using an open D chord, mids using an A, and bass using an E. Then reverb to taste, and slowly bring up the contour. Just a touch at a time. At some point you'll hear it "open up" and breathe a bit. When that happens, check your tone.

I bet you'll like the results. Left to right is the key, because that's how the tone stack is set up. Most people set them all at 5 and dip and bump to taste, but that adds and cuts gain without a good point of reference. Gain adds gain. Treble adds gain. Mids add slightly less gain. Bass a little less still.

One other tip. Try to keep all the knobs between 10:00 and about 3:00 or so. Bass with a lot of gain is an exception - go as low as you have to to get the tone right. But the rest sound better toward the middle of the dials than toward either extreme.
 
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