Using an attenuator with my Express 5:25 - Not going well

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dmontez

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I wanted the cranked clean, power tubes pushed tone with lower volume so I bought a Weber MiniMASS 50-watt attenuator. The amp sounds horrible with this attenuator. As a matter of fact, the clean channel always sounds distorted even with the gain and master at noon, which is pretty darn clean, even with the Weber all the way up. And the blues channel sounded just as bad.

I then tried this same attenuator with a different tube amp and it sounded great - Really transparent. Weber has no explanation. Has anyone here had success with any attenuator with these amps? How about any experience with a Weber?

Thanks
 
I use an attenuator with my roadster but my first try at an attenuator was not without issue so perhaps this can help as it did help for me.

Instead of dialing in a tone you are looking for at a cranked volume and then attenuating the volume you might want to consider doing it the other way. Dial in the volume you are looking to achieve and then start tweaking the knobs to get the tone you want. When you cut the power and the volume drops, the frequencies respond differently so the tonal qualities of the sound aren't perceived the same way at lower volumes.

If you want to dial in tone first, try dial in the tone you want with the volume set lower and only attenuate he sound by a few decibels to take the edge off. I found the amp more responsive this way. Good luck.
 
I run a PRS amp thru an attenuator now, and used to run a TA-15 thru an attenuator with excellent results. My 5:50+ does sound good running thru an attenuator, but it's master volume is so good I can get just as good a tone without one.
 
Never had any luck with attenuators when I was trying to tame overall volume problems especially a touchy master volume in a Blues Deluxe Reissue. The best and I could find was a simple volume box control in the effects loop, a pot in a box with a dial that cost about $25 or you could make yourself. What did work the best in my Deluxe Reverb when trying to reach that sweet spot was an Eminence Maverick speaker with their new FDM technology. Basically a big knob on the back of the speaker that changes the flux density of the speaker magnet making it less efficient without any tone changing except at the most max, level. I would then set the volume at 4.5, the sweetspot and then use the dial on the back of the speaker to set the output of the speaker.

They currently have two models the Maverick for American voicing and anotherthe Reignmaker for British voicing

WHAT THE PROS ARE SAYING
If you’re a guitar player and you have ever been told you’re stage volume is too loud, welcome to the club. We like to crank our tube amps up to get that sweet tone, but often times we end up too loud, especially in smaller venues and practice situations. With the Eminence FDM (Flux Density Modulation) guitar speakers, you can literally dial back the volume without losing the tone and feel you’re after. Our good friend Josh Smith offers a great explanation from a guitarist’s point of view, and demos both models: The British-voiced ReignMaker, and the American-voiced Maverick. Both speakers are rated at 75 watts, and when the dial is set to maximum attenuation, can drop the overall volume by nearly 9 dB. That’s like taking a 100 watt amp down to 12 watts.

http://www.eminence.com/2013/04/eminence-fdm-guitar-speaker-demo-by-josh-smith/
 
TAD attenuator does job verry good for me. First on Road King, and now on Express.

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Equipment_TAD_Silencer_Power_Attenuator/TAD_Silencer_Power_Attenuator_8_Ohm_2812
 
Forget any other brand of attenuation, get a Torpedo Reload Attenuator/Re-amp box..... thank me later.
 
$849 just to get your volume down a little............

Save your money, let your amp work like it is supposed and try one of the Eminence speakers for under $100 bucks.
 
dmontez said:
I wanted the cranked clean, power tubes pushed tone with lower volume so I bought a Weber MiniMASS 50-watt attenuator. The amp sounds horrible with this attenuator. As a matter of fact, the clean channel always sounds distorted even with the gain and master at noon, which is pretty darn clean, even with the Weber all the way up. And the blues channel sounded just as bad.

I then tried this same attenuator with a different tube amp and it sounded great - Really transparent. Weber has no explanation. Has anyone here had success with any attenuator with these amps? How about any experience with a Weber?

Thanks
Not sure what is meant by "all the way up", but if it means maximum attenuation, yup, sounds about right.
Zero attenuators sound decent at their max setting.
With gain and master at noon, the amp is putting out way more pre-amp clipping than the power amp.

First, make sure you're not running the amp at the 5 watt setting.

Run the pre-amp as clean as possible (which still may be noon) then run the master all the way up.
Then, reduce the loudness with the attenuator.

The EQ needs to be changed at really low volumes. Dial out some or all of the mids. Because at really low volume, mids are all you hear.

If it still sounds bad, that's because the sound of only the power tubes clipping may not actually be a sound you actually prefer, having now actually experienced it, rather than reading about it on the interwebs.
 
Stinger22 said:
$849 just to get your volume down a little............

Save your money, let your amp work like it is supposed and try one of the Eminence speakers for under $100 bucks.

Well, you are missing the big picture with that product. Any ways its more aimed to guitar players that are really serious on recording the amps tone and shaping the recorded tone further.

Someone that just wants to plug in to the amp and play and be done with it, this or any attenuator for that matter will not serve him/she any purpose what so ever. Just hope you have a big house, a sound proof space or live in the desert so you can crank up that Boogie to its full potential... must of us don't have that luxury 24/7!
 
These are my attenuators ---> Etymotic Research ER20 ETY-Ear Plugs :wink:

Luckily I own my own home and my wife is always shopping so I can easily get the tone I want (mot of the time) but to save my own ears I use the plugs :D
I do feel for anyone that can't use their amp at a decent level due to consideration of others. In that case an attenuator should work out for you. Dr Z is a good choice!
 
8d2studios said:
Stinger22 said:
$849 just to get your volume down a little............

Save your money, let your amp work like it is supposed and try one of the Eminence speakers for under $100 bucks.

Well, you are missing the big picture with that product. Any ways its more aimed to guitar players that are really serious on recording the amps tone and shaping the recorded tone further.

Someone that just wants to plug in to the amp and play and be done with it, this or any attenuator for that matter will not serve him/she any purpose what so ever. Just hope you have a big house, a sound proof space or live in the desert so you can crank up that Boogie to its full potential... must of us don't have that luxury 24/7!

It's a pretty big picture for someone who just wants to turn down the volume for home use. The new speaker technology gives you up to 9db cut which can suffice for most home use in a small wattage amp. And it all comes AFTER the amp so your amp thinks it's playing at the higher volume. Your just making the speaker less efficient. I have it in my Deluxe Reverb which is 22 watts and can play reasonable well at home, I use it more for small clubs, getting the volume at that magic DR 4.5 level. If it were in my Blues Jr at 15 could really crank in some good tone at low volume. Fortunately the Mesa has teh 5/15/25 wattage settings and a GREAT master volume setup so it does it on its own ;-).

I bet the one you mentioned is GREAT in a studio environment, but just thinking at that price I could get a BJ, or any other low wattage amp, and mod with this speaker and be there.
 
cwgatti24 said:
....isn't the 5W switch an attenuator?

On the Mesa's, no. Changes the entire circuitry taking tubes in and out of the circuit to a 5 watt, or 15 watt or 25 watt amp. Egnators and others do the same. Attenuation takes the full power and tries to change it into heat or somehow disperse it.

For instance the THD Hot Plate I had says

Q. Where should I place the Hot Plate?
A. The Hot Plate can get warm, so do not place objects on top of it. It has a built-in fan that
draws in air through holes in the bottom of the unit, and blows hot air out the ?ns on the
top of the unit, so do not obstruct the air below the Hot Plate by placing it on a shag rug, for
instance. You can safely place the Hot Plate on top of your amp or on a hard ?oor surface.
When picking it up after extended use please check that it is cool enough to carry.
 
8d2studios said:
Forget any other brand of attenuation, get a Torpedo Reload Attenuator/Re-amp box..... thank me later.

Or, if you want a great live sound through the FOH, pick up a Torpedo Live loadbox/cab sim. Some of the best money I've dropped on a rack unit, ever.
 
Archlute75 said:
8d2studios said:
Forget any other brand of attenuation, get a Torpedo Reload Attenuator/Re-amp box..... thank me later.

Or, if you want a great live sound through the FOH, pick up a Torpedo Live loadbox/cab sim. Some of the best money I've dropped on a rack unit, ever.


Yep, Torpedo stuff is simply amazing! If Reload would have had the Torpedo CAB IR host capability it would have been the perfect product!.
 
The only way to use an attenuator is to crank up your amp until it has the exact sound you are looking for, potentially very loud, if not you are done. If way to loud, add the attenuator to bring it back down to a reasonable level. If you are looking for late night practice/bedroom/apartment levels, buy an amp modeler and headphones.

But on that note, most Boogies sound great without an attenuator, they were designed that way. But you are not getting power tube saturation, which btw once you are saturating the power tubes with the master volume, there really is no such thing as a clean channel, that is channel or preamp tube saturation and different circuits.
 
I have always been looking for the perfect 3-channel amp that has the capability of playing out, or backing down to bedroom levels. The closest I ever got to "perfection" with that scenario was the Marshall 30th Anny amp. In theory, the Mark V would be MESA's answer to my dilemma. I found a cheap Carvin V3m that (in theory) would solve my problem. I couldn't get anything close to the sound in my head. My 5:50 is fantastic for me to get those tones in my head, but the channel to channel isn't cutting it for me. I would LOVE if the 5:50 was a 4-channel amp so I could use the 4 modes.

...any suggestions?

Love my 5:50 otherwise.
 
Get two Express and use an AB switch if you are dead serious. The nice thing about the express is they are fairly cheap. A new markv will run you 2300-2400 depending on head/combo. 1800 seems to be common price for the head used. You can get another express+ for 1200 used, or even 1300 if you get the 25w version. IF you are open to the 2nd amp being a non-Plus version you can get those for 700-800 depending on which one (25/50, head v combo etc..).

If you seriously love the express id get to and use the 4 channels that way. The Mark V is great amp, I don't own but i've seen a ton of youtube videos, and the best part of it to me seems like the markIIC and part of it. Luckly there are other markIIC options out there (studio preamp, triaxis, mark iv) all get you close, but it sounds like for you the mark v, what you want is the multi channel portion of it. Just keep in mind that, and this is an assumption perhaps im wrong, the Mark V and the Express don't sound exactly alike, somewhat similar on cleans, but the distortions have different voices (not drastic but enough to say they are different).

My .02.
 

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