Express 50/5 mode switching mod QUESTION

Hi All Express owners,

I am wanting to be able to foot-switch between the 2 x sub channels of the Express's Distortion Channel ie the Blues and Burn modes, which you can only do by hand on the amp face at the moment. I want to do so seamlessly using Blues mode for rhythm playing and burn mode for solos, as after a lot of tube experimentation, I have found a combination that makes both modes sound great for those purposes, without having to use any effects pedals.

There is a Utube (French) of this mod for both the Clean and Distortion Channels. It is incomplete as regards how the marshall footswitch he uses is wired at the plug end. He has used 2 x mono sockets at the back of the amp, so I guess he has put in a splitter in the marshall pedal's stereo plug jack. Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIc9_FTzRSA

But anyway, I dont need to to footswitch operate the Clean Channel into its 2 modes, ONLY just the Distortion Channel between Blues and Burn.

My question is.... would a Boss FS6 Dual Footswitch do the job ? I have one, never taken out its box, and cant recall why I bought it. I hope I can use this Boss pedal to switch between Blues and Burn modes silently when my amp tech has bypassed (or doubled up) the mini toggle switch on the front of the amp, and fitted a socket to the back of the Express amp for this Boss FS-6 pedal.

Anyone able to give some advice on this?

Thanks,

Don

It would be easier and more worth it IMO to just buy or build a boost pedal and use it with the blues channel. Blues is a little thicker and might be more prone to flubbiness at higher gain, but I think it could be fine, especially if the pedal has a tone knob.

OTOH you could use the burn channel and lower the volume with your guitar knob. Would sound thinner at lower gain than blues, but more aggressive I think.

Thanks EtherealWidow. Yep, I have tried effect pedals over the last 5 years with this amp in the manner you describe, and currently do so using a Xotic BB +, which gives me the option via its 2 x channels of a volume boost with some fur, or a full distortion effect.

Its a good pedal, quite transparent, but since finding a cocktail of tubes after a lot of experimentation over a year (and the assistance of Members Newrysurfer and Gadgetfreak), I much prefer the sound of my Clean Channel "clean" setting for clean country rock rythmn with a bit of gain dialed in, and the Distortion Channel's "Blues" setting for rock rythmn and the "Burn" setting for solos.

With the tubes I am using, the Blues setting fairly growls playing chords and the Burn setting for solos is smooth and sustained, without the flubbiness and annoying note decay on the 6th and 5th strings the stock amp had .

The "Crunch" setting in the Clean Channel is pretty much redundant now, (as I much prefer the new 'blues' voice) and I never did really like the 'crunch' setting anyway.

I am guessing there just might be a good reason why Mesa did not footswitch the voices of the 2 x Channels, maybe there's some high voltage through that circuit and they dont want someone damaging a footswitch cable somehow and getting a big jolt or worse?

But maybe Mesa just didnt think it was going to be a useful feature. Anyway, that Utube French video link (in my first post) shows it can be done. And it would be very useful for me.

Anyone 'out there' ever done this mod or knows if it is a bad idea due to circuitry issues?

Cheers,

Don

I can't imagine it would be a bad idea due to circuitry issues. If they put a toggle on the chassis, making a footswitch for it wouldn't be a big deal. Only thing I'd be worried about is taking it to a crappy tech and having him void the warranty.

I have contacted mesa's tech department and asked if I can switch between the channel modes 'on the fly' very regularly in a set list. The answer was yes, 'no trouble at all'.

So it appears that provided my tech replicates the function of the amp's front panel via a footswitch, all should be well.

I will have the mod done over Christmas.

Cheers,

Don

That's really surprising coming from a company that voids your warranty if you don't use their tubes. Weird. I actually just recorded a bunch of songs in which I had the same settings for blues and burn and just toggled between the two for clean and dirty. Blues is a really cool mode. A lot of gain available (and I use a 12AY7 in the first position), you just have to adjust your pick attack a lot. Really dynamic though. Sounds great.

EtherealWidow said:

That's really surprising coming from a company that voids your warranty if you don't use their tubes. Weird. I actually just recorded a bunch of songs in which I had the same settings for blues and burn and just toggled between the two for clean and dirty. Blues is a really cool mode. A lot of gain available (and I use a 12AY7 in the first position), you just have to adjust your pick attack a lot. Really dynamic though. Sounds great.

Click to expand...

We don't void your warranty if you don't use our tubes - however, any damage that occurs directly related to using non-Mesa tubes will not be covered under your warranty. This specifically applies to power tubes.

Yikes...we are being watched :lol: !! Good to clear up that myth that Ive read on forums that causes some Mesa owners to remove any alien tubes before sending their amps back for warranty repairs !!

I will report back on the results in January 2014 after my tech (used by our local Mesa stocking store) does the mod. I should add here.....my amp is out of its warranty period. And its not like Mesa authorised the footswitch mod, only that regular toggling between voice modes on the fly was fine. I just joined those dots.

BTW, do you know if the Boss FS-6 will handle the switching ? I'm told by a friend that it wont as it uses electronic switching rather than normal mechanical switching (eg Fender, Marshall footswitches etc)

Cheers.

I don't know if the Boss will cover it. Maybe Boogie can answer.

Also, Boogie, thanks for clearing that up! Current tube lineup is

V1: Tung Sol 12AX7
V2: EH 12AY7
V3:Tung Sol 12AX7
V4: EH 12AY7
V5: Nothing

Power: Sovtek EL84's

Despite the much lower gain, the thing sounds amazing.

Yes, Ethereal Widow, I too found a mix of pre amp tubes that I really like. So much so that it led to me starting this thread re the Boss FS-6 being suitable or not for a footswitch .....I mean, the tube driven voices of my Express are now my preference over using effects pedals.

I see you also use a Tungsol.

Try the JJ's that I use in V2 and V3 and see what you think ?

In the pre amp I settled on :
V1: Tungsol 12AX7
V2: JJECC83S
V3: JJECC83S high gain
V4: Sovtek LPS balanced 12AX7
V5: Sovtek LPS 12AX7

A big difference came when I tried 6L6 WInged Cs in the power tubes (note - I own a 50/5W Express).

Will report on the success or otherwise of the footswitch Jan/Fe 2014 ! Cheers !

If the FS-6 does latching type switching on both pedals, then it should work. Maybe have the tech test it when he does the mod.

I really want to know how this turns out! I've been tossing around the idea of selling some stuff and getting a 5:50+ combo or a new mini Rectoverb!
I need a good grab and go amp. The only two amps I have left are a Rivera S120 and a Heartbreaker combo. Both of them weigh in at around 100 pounds of sheer heart thumping goodness!

Is there a volume jump when you switch from Blues to Burn?

Andy, how ya' doing? I got an Express 5:25+ as my grab and go small amp. I love it. it is so stinking easy. Given your HB's weight, get a small amp. The mini rec is also awesome. I just wanted the reverb, EQ and extra features. I found that it really likes the new Mesa FX pedals. The Flux Drive pedal as the "lead" tone is killer. I use clean as clean, and the OD channel for crunch rhythm. I use a Tone Burst pedal for a lead boost off the crunch channel and a Flux Drive for leads off the clean channel. It is a great little set up. I can load into a gig with everything in one trip in my hands.

Brent

Right on, thanks! I'll shoot you an email asking about the amp......

I am really interested in the mod! Please let me know how it turns out.

Monsta-Tone said:

.....Is there a volume jump when you switch from Blues to Burn?

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On my regular 5:50, say you use Clean and Blues modes and set the volume level the same between the two channels.

• - If you flip the mode switch on Ch 1 from Clean to Crunch, you still have about the same volume level on hand in Crunch.
  - If you flip the mode switch on Ch 2 from Blues to Burn, you get a rather large volume jump in Burn.

So if the modes were made to be footswitchable, you could have Clean, Crunch, and Blues all putting out about the same volume level, but Burn would be a good bit higher than the other three modes at the same gain/volume settings. The volume bump in Burn is enough that, at least for me, it would be unusable.

If one was going to have the modes made footswitchable, maybe a tech could modify the Burn circuit to reduce the level a bit so it would be relatively the same as the other three modes?

Even with the volume discrepancy in Burn, I'm still intrigued in the results of anyone's attempts at having this mod done.

I would be more than happy with Clean, Crunch & Burn!
That plus the EQ or Contour would be really versatile!

Monsta-Tone said:

I would be more than happy with Clean, Crunch & Burn!
That plus the EQ or Contour would be really versatile!

Click to expand...

Sounds like this would work for you then, since the volume jump scenario is absent from your situation.

Well back again as promised with a report on the mod I had done . And I will answer the volume jump question posted here too.

Unfortunately, it did not work satisfactorily, as there was a loud 'pop' every time the footswitch was operated. My tech tried for days to get rid of it by re-routing the new wiring in the head, trying different wiring, but the 'pop' remained, and just too loud to be masked by band noise.

Perhaps this is why Mesa dont offer it, as it is a no brainer good option especially on the blues/burn channel.

He was familiar with a certain Utube video of someone doing the mod, but advised me that the way it was done there, could be melt down causing.

Disappointing outcome, so I am on another hunt now for a new overdrive or distortion pedal, but will start another thread on that topic.

Regarding the volume jump from blues to burn modes, yes it does that, and has always done, but much moreso since I changed the tubes over to the mix I have specified, and especially since using Winged Cs in the main power tubes. Very noticeable jump, but this suits me as the Blues mode sounds great now (didn't like it with the original tubes) for rhythm, and the Burn mode, being volume boosted and with its better sustain, is great for solos.

That's why I wanted a footswitch !

Anyway, if someone has been the same journey as me and came up with a solution to the 'pop', please post a tread and give me a heads up private message me. Thanks to all Posters and check out my pedal question thread please - regards, Don

Man that's a bummer!
I did away with the mute circuit on an Express and got huge pops when channel switching or changing the mode switches.....
I think I'll stick to the older Mesa amps with separate tube paths for each channel! No pops, no mutes, just instant channel changes.

Monsta-Tone - Whats the mute circuit in an Express?

3 transistors that mute the sound for about half a second while any channel changes or mode changes are going on.
I like to change channels in the middle of a chord or note.....I freaking hate the mute circuit!!!!
I know there is a lot of stuff going on when you change channels on a modern Mesa, but a delay, glitch, drop in sound, etc, is just not going to work for me.